Those guys should get their hooligan and troubled youth problems out of the way before trying to start wars with countries that give their cops guns instead of whistles.
Putin v Saudi Arabia
- Thread starter wezcountry
- Start date
Those guys should get their hooligan and troubled youth problems out of the way before trying to start wars with countries that give their cops guns instead of whistles.
Well it's definitely a grudge match. Not many people know this, but part of old Gorbachov's plan to liberalise the Soviet Union consisted of selling oil to pay for the transition. But the Saudis alarmed at a new source of oil coming onto the market, deliberately opened their pumps forced the price down to $10 per barrel in the mid 1990's, in order to make the Soviet fields uneconomic.
Soviet Union duly collapsed and the nightmare of the Yeltsin period started. Given Putin's attachment to the old Soviet system (which he believes should not have been broken), it's no surprise he hates teh Saudis.
He won't take revenge militarily though. It will be economic. It's all about who supplies Europe with gas. The ME lot want to build a gas pipeline from Qatar to Turkey where it will connect to the Nabucco pipeline into Europe. One route is via Saudi and Syria, and the other is through Kuwait and Iraq.
Iraq is a mess, so it has to go through Syria. But Syria rejected the pipeline in 2009 (because Putin pressured Assad to say no). Which suddenly put Assad in the sights of the jihadis from Saudi and Qatar...
If the pipeline never gets built, then Putin has won as Russia will remain the main supplier of gas to Europe (the other suppliers are Norway and Morrocco via a pipeline to Spain).
Soviet Union duly collapsed and the nightmare of the Yeltsin period started. Given Putin's attachment to the old Soviet system (which he believes should not have been broken), it's no surprise he hates teh Saudis.
He won't take revenge militarily though. It will be economic. It's all about who supplies Europe with gas. The ME lot want to build a gas pipeline from Qatar to Turkey where it will connect to the Nabucco pipeline into Europe. One route is via Saudi and Syria, and the other is through Kuwait and Iraq.
Iraq is a mess, so it has to go through Syria. But Syria rejected the pipeline in 2009 (because Putin pressured Assad to say no). Which suddenly put Assad in the sights of the jihadis from Saudi and Qatar...
If the pipeline never gets built, then Putin has won as Russia will remain the main supplier of gas to Europe (the other suppliers are Norway and Morrocco via a pipeline to Spain).
The US is sitting on a fuckton of oil (Green River Basin, Bakken reserve etc), so I don't think they need Saudi oil as much as people think.
Last year over 75% of the USA's oil consumption came from North America, and the United States is the third largest oil producer in the world (only slightly behind Saudi Arabia). And as you mentioned, we have huge untapped oil reserves.
We're in fine shape when it comes to oil.
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cardine you sick fuck
Syria isn't exactly stable, either.
Last week :
PressTV - Syria militants blow up gas pipeline near Damascus
"According to the United Nations, more than 100,000 people have been killed and millions displaced so far due to the turmoil in the country."
True, but the Mideast oil is much easier to extract from the ground.
Saudi oil cheaper than American oil | Grist
An American Oil Find That Holds More Oil Than All of OPEC - ABC News
"The cost of extracting the Green River oil at the moment would be higher than what it could be sold for."
The US and Saudi Arabia have been fuck buddies and loving each minute of it for about 50+ years now. They're so ingrained with each other, it's like the US and Israel, except nobody ever talks about the US and Saudi Arabia.
There's a reason the US doesn't bitch about Saudi Arabia's dismal human right's record.
True, but as mentioned Saudi oil is currently cheaper to extract so it seems like the relationship will last for as long as that remains to be the case. After which, Saudi Arabia will be left to go back to being a desert shit hole and the US will charge a monstrous premium for their Green River oil.
Don't be so naive. The US and Saudi Arabia are in bed together for more than oil. For one, just look at a world map. Two, Saudi is excellent for proxy wars. Three, Saudi Arabia may not be large on the world stage, but they are on the Middle East stage, so having them in your corner is pretty advantageous. Four, rich Saudis have invested heavily in the US. And the list goes on, and on... most likely to lengths we have no comprehension of.
I would have agreed with you prior to 9/11, but the US used that as an excuse to gain a much stronger foothold in the region over the last 13 years. Take a look at a map of US bases in the region.
It was stable in 2009 when the pipeline was first proposed. Here's the Guardian's take on it:
I'm so glad our Parliament put a kibosh on our military being used to further Saudi plans in Syria.
Behind every war is money. The usual reasons, "bringing democracy" if you are a westerner or "creating the caliphate" if you are an Islamist, are just designed to suck in useful idiots to do the dirty work. You can see why Putin can't stand the Saudis too.
Wut?
And how?
Russia has no army to defend itself, let alone attack smb else. Their army is a bunch of oligophrens, normal people cant survive on these wages. And they dont have any modern weapon that is able to shoot/fly etc. It's a bunch of rusty metal.
All the huge funds given to them in the last like 20 years have turned to generals villas in Europe.
The troops get no training.
While the Saudis get all the modern US weapon, just like Israel. Have no idea of their training tho.
USA & allies broke up the Soviet Union and put puppet president Yeltsin into "power" and a few oligarchs -- one for media, several for natural resources. The thing with the president is that by new constitution (written by american advisers) president does not have much real power. During Yeltsin's period Russia lost almost all of its military power and at the end of 90s according to american plan Chechen separatists should start a war which would lead to break up of Russia itself into several independent states.
Yeltsin was a puppet, but he, unlike Gorbachev who actually was an american agent, did not enjoy this position, unfortunately he could not do much. That's why he started to drink heavily. He tried to get into real power with the help of Alexander Korzhakov, but as soon as he realized that Korzhakov has no chance, Yeltsin backed out. At the end Yeltsin managed to pull one little trick -- at the New Year holiday (New Year for Russians is the same as Christmas for Americans) he assigned Putin as his successor (that's a Russian democracy for you
Yeltsin lost the first war in Chechnya and signed humiliating Khasavyurt Accord and now another war was going on with terrorists invaded Dagestan. Putin quickly managed to pull the shit together and to win that war, that gave him unprecedented popularity and people easily agreed for him to be the next president.
Putin's first steps were to get the oil back into the state's hands, because although Russia was selling a lot of it almost nothing went into budget. He cancelled production sharing agreements, fought and negotiated with oligarchs (this is when Khodorkovsky went to jail, because he did not want to cooperate) and that's how money started to finally flow in the budget.
Since then Russia runs a very nice surplus budget, almost repaid its debts and starting at I believe 2010 or so is doing a huge army modernization. Why? Because American might is based upon the dollar being the reserve currency of the world and other countries by all means are made to use it for trade.
USA runs a huge budget deficit year over year and has to borrow more and more money. Other countries like Russia and China are forced to lend them money by buying their government bonds, it is a modern way of paying the tribute. Because USA can not sell all the bonds they need to sell, they have to print money devaluing the dollar.
USA's survival is based upon dollar, they have to enforce it being the reserve currency. Obama started so many wars not because he is a warmonger, but because he has to, he has to enforce the status quo. Putin sure gets it and that's why strong army is a must for him "no one will prevail over Russia military", "in a meeting in Sochi on November 2013, President Putin said the country's defense budget will reach 2.3 trillion roubles, stressing the huge amount in comparison to the 2003 budget, which stood on 600 billion rubles". I don't think it will be a direct attack on Russia by USA or allies, it would be very hard to justify for regular american people, most likely more Syria style "freedom fighters" and I'm sure Russian military will be ready for it.
Anybody who thinks Russia has nothing but rusty old soviet nuclear warhead rockets is plain wrong. Russia has a history of defeating Napoleon and Hitler -- two military supermachines. As one of the Russian heroes put it "Who will come to us with a sword will die from the sword".
With that being said Putin's favourite methods are political, he does not like making huge changes and bold moves. Look at his latest gains -- no USA strike on Syria (prevented by political move to destroy chemical weapons), no Ukraine deal with the EU (prevented by giving them money and threatening with economic sanctions). So for all those people who compares countries by dollar amounts spent on army -- that's not how politics work. Strong army is a big part, but that's definitely not whole.
How Putin will get back to Saudis? He is already doing it aiding Assad. Saudis want him gone and puppet regime installed, Putin wants independent Syria. So far unclear how will it resolve, but by the looks of it Syrian rebels are on shaky grounds, while Assad seems to be mostly in control of a situation.
Yeltsin was a puppet, but he, unlike Gorbachev who actually was an american agent, did not enjoy this position, unfortunately he could not do much. That's why he started to drink heavily. He tried to get into real power with the help of Alexander Korzhakov, but as soon as he realized that Korzhakov has no chance, Yeltsin backed out. At the end Yeltsin managed to pull one little trick -- at the New Year holiday (New Year for Russians is the same as Christmas for Americans) he assigned Putin as his successor (that's a Russian democracy for you
Yeltsin lost the first war in Chechnya and signed humiliating Khasavyurt Accord and now another war was going on with terrorists invaded Dagestan. Putin quickly managed to pull the shit together and to win that war, that gave him unprecedented popularity and people easily agreed for him to be the next president.
Putin's first steps were to get the oil back into the state's hands, because although Russia was selling a lot of it almost nothing went into budget. He cancelled production sharing agreements, fought and negotiated with oligarchs (this is when Khodorkovsky went to jail, because he did not want to cooperate) and that's how money started to finally flow in the budget.
Since then Russia runs a very nice surplus budget, almost repaid its debts and starting at I believe 2010 or so is doing a huge army modernization. Why? Because American might is based upon the dollar being the reserve currency of the world and other countries by all means are made to use it for trade.
USA runs a huge budget deficit year over year and has to borrow more and more money. Other countries like Russia and China are forced to lend them money by buying their government bonds, it is a modern way of paying the tribute. Because USA can not sell all the bonds they need to sell, they have to print money devaluing the dollar.
USA's survival is based upon dollar, they have to enforce it being the reserve currency. Obama started so many wars not because he is a warmonger, but because he has to, he has to enforce the status quo. Putin sure gets it and that's why strong army is a must for him "no one will prevail over Russia military", "in a meeting in Sochi on November 2013, President Putin said the country's defense budget will reach 2.3 trillion roubles, stressing the huge amount in comparison to the 2003 budget, which stood on 600 billion rubles". I don't think it will be a direct attack on Russia by USA or allies, it would be very hard to justify for regular american people, most likely more Syria style "freedom fighters" and I'm sure Russian military will be ready for it.
Anybody who thinks Russia has nothing but rusty old soviet nuclear warhead rockets is plain wrong. Russia has a history of defeating Napoleon and Hitler -- two military supermachines. As one of the Russian heroes put it "Who will come to us with a sword will die from the sword".
With that being said Putin's favourite methods are political, he does not like making huge changes and bold moves. Look at his latest gains -- no USA strike on Syria (prevented by political move to destroy chemical weapons), no Ukraine deal with the EU (prevented by giving them money and threatening with economic sanctions). So for all those people who compares countries by dollar amounts spent on army -- that's not how politics work. Strong army is a big part, but that's definitely not whole.
How Putin will get back to Saudis? He is already doing it aiding Assad. Saudis want him gone and puppet regime installed, Putin wants independent Syria. So far unclear how will it resolve, but by the looks of it Syrian rebels are on shaky grounds, while Assad seems to be mostly in control of a situation.