life worth more 24 seconds

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The guy wasn't an immediate threat to anyone, he was contained and not going anywhere. The place where he was, was not crowded and he wasn't threatening other people... he wasn't even coming near the other people you could see in the video. I didn't see where he even caused any damage to any property. He was just angry and confused and, according to the video, not really non-compliant.

Even if he had been overtly non-compliant and posed a threat, (which I don't believe he did) 4 buff looking young cops should have been able to control him with manual restraint techniques. Instead, one of them went straight to the Tazer. They had all the time in the world to deal with this guy but chose to end it by using more force than was necessary.

Bad move, I think, because I'll wager Canadian LE probably uses the same or similar use of force continuum as US police departments. That use of force continuum teaches not only how to properly escalate an encounter but how to properly deescalate one. You can rightfully go one step above the force the bad guy is using, unless something instantly and drastically changes, then you can go straight to deadly force... as long as you can justify it afterwards.

Maybe I missed something but I never saw any of the officers attempt to deescalate the situation by trying to communicate with the man. All I saw was them surround him and moments later he was on the floor, writhing. Then, when there appeared to be a problem with the guys health, everyone just stood around. No one appeared to be attempting to give the guy any help.

Unfortunately, the man died. 4 young officers and likely some of the command staff will see their careers end (if not some jail time) and the RCMP as well as the airport and Canadian government will pay some hefty cash to the guys mother.

It all could have been avoided if, somewhere along the line, someone would have been willing to try to communicate with the guy... or find someone who could. Any dufus (even an FBI agent) should have recognized the guy didn't speak or understand English and could have started to try to figure out what language he did speak.

Sometimes, even if you can find someone who speaks another similar foreign language, but not the right one, it will help to calm the person and reassure them you're trying to help them. It buys time and helps to deescalate the situation.
 


Let me also point out that it appeared there were 2 airport security officers there as well...

I know I saw 1 for sure, I think a second one, but I'm not positive.

Thats 5-6 people. For one old guy.

I could understand if he was punching little babies, or running around naked covered in blood screaming about aliens.
But he wasn't.
 
this actually happened like a month ago....but the video was just recently released... its funny to see how they originally reported the news back then -
Man died after 4 Taser jolts, witness alleges

Notice the no mention of waiting in airport for 10 hours...

Richmond RCMP Sgt. Pierre Lemaitre said witnesses reported seeing the man sweating profusely and showing the whites of his eyes when he began violently tossing chairs and luggage inside the airport early Sunday.

Excited delirium is described as an agitated state, when a person experiences an irregular heartbeat and suddenly dies. It can happen to psychiatric patients and people using drugs such as cocaine.
Officers physically restrained Dziekanski and applied handcuffs, Lemaitre said.
"He was on his back, and being combative and still fighting. Even though he had received what they call pulses, two pulses from Taser, he was still out of control," Lemaitre told CBC Newsworld on Monday morning.

Lemaitre denied links between the Taser jolts and the man's death, saying deaths are often not directly related to the stun gun but rather caused by some pre-existing medical condition or drug use.


damn crack heads :rolleyes:
 
Uzzz said:
this actually happened like a month ago....but the video was just recently released... its funny to see how they originally reported the news back then -
Man died after 4 Taser jolts, witness alleges

Notice the no mention of waiting in airport for 10 hours...

Richmond RCMP Sgt. Pierre Lemaitre said witnesses reported seeing the man sweating profusely and showing the whites of his eyes when he began violently tossing chairs and luggage inside the airport early Sunday.

Excited delirium is described as an agitated state, when a person experiences an irregular heartbeat and suddenly dies. It can happen to psychiatric patients and people using drugs such as cocaine.
Officers physically restrained Dziekanski and applied handcuffs, Lemaitre said.
"He was on his back, and being combative and still fighting. Even though he had received what they call pulses, two pulses from Taser, he was still out of control," Lemaitre told CBC Newsworld on Monday morning.

Lemaitre denied links between the Taser jolts and the man's death, saying deaths are often not directly related to the stun gun but rather caused by some pre-existing medical condition or drug use.


damn crack heads :|
Click to expand...

So much to the police.. here is the quote by the witness in the article (not the one who shot the video)

shrafinia said she never felt Dziekanski had been a threat.

And a lawyer: (of all things)Cameron Ward said police typically blame deaths on medical conditions, and the coroner's office often comes to the same conclusion.
"My feeling is they're being overused. They're being used on people who are in medical or emotional distress and often there are tragic consequences," said Ward.
Lemaitre said in an earlier interview that police considered using pepper spray but it would have affected other people in the airport. He also said officers decided against using batons to subdue the man because of how it would have looked to the public.
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reply

Hi guys,

you know what makes me even mader, see on the top of my post

the video link thats for youtube tell me how bad this is.

The guy is down even think code red is called, howver on the right of the

bottom screen, go to 710 min see what the RCMP man is doing on the right.

if that's not criminal i dont know what is.


On the times at the right of your screen time should read 7:10/851

http://youtube.com/watch?v=K6nx0Cx3uMk&feature=related
 
Maybe, just maybe the police should be trained to at least recognise different languages - especially if they are working at an international airport. Even if they had got an interpreter it wouldn't have helped as they seemed to think the guy was speaking Russian.

Canadians are often (understandably) pissed off at being mistaken for Americans, so you might expect them to make a tiny bit more effort than most.
 
well i think this works both ways .... if i'm going to a foreign country the first thing i'd learn how to say is ... i speak "english" ...or "polish" or whatever the hell u speak....then where is the bathroom..and where can i buy some crack
 
hmmm...

I just now thought of this.

The guy went through customs, right?
So how did they not know he was polish?

Also, passport is understood in almost any language... I have traveled europe, so I know that you can just try passport, passaporte, passporti, something will stick.

::emp::
 
surfmale said:
Hi guys,

you know what makes me even mader, see on the top of my post

the video link thats for youtube tell me how bad this is.

The guy is down even think code red is called, howver on the right of the

bottom screen, go to 710 min see what the RCMP man is doing on the right.

if that's not criminal i dont know what is.


On the times at the right of your screen time should read 7:10/851

YouTube - Police Taser Polish Man to Death at Vancouver's YVR Airport
Click to expand...

I had to go back to look and I know what it looks like but the guy is closing an expandable baton (ASP Expandable Batons) on the floor, not hitting the guy with it. The camera angle makes it look bad.

The baton is held open by friction when it's expanded and it takes a pretty good shock, like stabbing it onto a hard surface, (the floor) to get it to release so it'll close.

If you'll watch very closely, you'll get a glimpse of it in the closed position (much shorter) just before he stands up then, just before the guy in the yellow shirt steps in the way, you'll see him reholstering it.
 
surfmale said:
Hi All,

Another dark day for humanity this makes me so sick after only 24 seconds The so called trained police kill a man in cold blood. At the Vancouver
International airport. Deeply sad for the famly of Dziekanski.
Godbless.

what could they be thinking in 24 seconds.

Shame on Canada's pride and joy RCMP

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2...ies-after.html

YouTube - Police Taser Polish Man to Death at Vancouver's YVR Airport
Click to expand...
You're hearts in the right place but you don't know as much about the situation as you think you do.

First, that guy was yelling and screaming for hours before the police arrived. Second, the police were around a lot longer than 24 seconds. Don't believe everything you see on the news. Third, it's unfortunate that he died but it's a fucking airport- don't be a jackass.

Would it be any different if he were in the US or the UK? No, he would have been put to rest. Don't make me start reciting previous events from other countries, you forget all too quickly that people are still people and are going to act as such when thrown into a conflict situation.
 
AdJump, you are not as thick as that, are you?

This makes me sick. A man dies and the officers are not even DISCIPLINED?

Great.

::emp::
 
Reply

God iv seen it all,

Was out the other night, at the bars people now when they see cops

are like so you going to Tazer me now.

Silly.
 
emp said:
AdJump, you are not as thick as that, are you?

This makes me sick. A man dies and the officers are not even DISCIPLINED?

Great.

::emp::
Click to expand...
I was responding to the rather ignorant and fact-deprived OP who claimed the police tazered the guy in 24 seconds. In reality, the guy had plenty of time to chill out and relax. Now, the fact that he died is unfortunate (as Tazers are meant to be non-lethal), but it's not as if they rushed in and shot him.

Now, am I bothered by this at all? No, I'm not, because what if this guy wasn't content to keep smashing and yelling? This situation could have gone a lot of different directions, and at the end of the day I keep having to remind myself that he was in an AIRPORT causing shit. Should he have died? No. I think his death was way out of line and the officers in question should be disciplined, but I also have to keep in mind that the police have to look at this kind of scenario from all angles.

What if this guy escalated and become a serious threat?

What if this guy just relaxed, sat down, and waited for authorities to help him out?

What if this guy had sought proper assistance?

What if this guy took it too far?

There are way too many angles to look at, and for the last time, no one got fucking tazered in 24 seconds. Sorry about it, but he was there for HOURS, at an AIRPORT, causing a disturbance. It's the WRONG place, especially considering all of the crap that's happened over the last few years at airports. People are already afraid enough. What did he think was going to happen? The police were going to come in and give him a teddy bear to cuddle?

So yea, unfortnuate that he died but the writing was really on the wall that something was going to be done to restrain him. The fact that the tazer killed him is also quite sick, but I really don't see how the situation could have gone another way (save from the tazer NOT killing him, of course).
 
Yes, he was there for hours, trying to get help. (You do not believe he was throwing chairs around for hours?)

And the 24 seconds are the time from "Special police team" arrives to "Special police team" decides to taser him.

::emp::
 
The fallout from all of this has been the public inquiry into the RCMPs use of Tasers, and also a massive inquiry into the RCMP as a whole. Public recommendations were made last Wednesday to the RCMP on the use of the tasers, and while not adopting all the recommendations they are reviewing them all and have started with others.

Its too bad this happened but this is also makes me proud to be a Canadian. We recognize and acknowledge there is a problem, it gets looked at and try to make it better. Be it through public inquiries, reviews, recommendations whatever. Theres a process to get better.
Maybe because we have a national police force this is easier for Canada to implement than the US, where the different state and city police forces don't seem to always be working on the same page.
From a Canadian perspective, its horrible what happened at the airport here, but its also good that something is being done about it to rectify it.\

How many horrible things worse than this happen with authority in the US everyday? How many go unreported? And even if there is outcry in the US it jsut seems that the political machine down there just stomps it out, or risk being a traitor to your nation. Its crazy.
 
emp said:
Yes, he was there for hours, trying to get help. (You do not believe he was throwing chairs around for hours?)

And the 24 seconds are the time from "Special police team" arrives to "Special police team" decides to taser him.

::emp::
Click to expand...
The bottom line here is that he guy who died did a few things wrong (I won't list them since they're common sense) and the police team used excessive force. That's not being questioned.

What I find funny now is the public outcry about tazers within Canada, even though statistically tazers cause fewer deaths than fist-fights.
 
What I find funny now is the public outcry about tazers within Canada, even though statistically tazers cause fewer deaths than fist-fights.
Click to expand...

If you like to compare apples and oranges sure. The people having the fist-fights are not the same people using the tasers. Give tasers to everyone in a bar brawl and see how that figure changes.

Besides, statistics say police putting handcuffs or an arm lock on someone there are far fewer deaths compared to when they taser the person first.

Tasers have been relabeled "less-lethal" from "non-lethal". The taser doesnt kill you directly, but it can trigger a problem that does.

And now that its a fact that tasers can be lethal, their usage can no longer go unchecked. Its a helpful tool in the right circumstance. Hopefully now there will be enough paper work and reports the cops need to fill out after using a taser that they will seriously consider if it is the appropriate tool for the situation.
 
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