The root cause of 9/11 - why the west is hated.

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LazyHippy

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Leaving aside other theories and accepting the official line that America was attacked by extremist Muslims who hate the west, this gives a great insight into the primary cause of that hatred - The Israel/Palestine situation.

If you care about this shit (even if it's just about where your taxes are going), then it's worth understanding a bit about the history.

The second part also gives a very disturbing view into the extent of the corruption in British politics which I'm sure is at least as bad, if not worse, in the US.

Balfour to Blair* : Information Clearing House - ICH
 


Before viewing the video, I want to say:

What was the United States to do? Welcome all these people to the United States? Hitler was European problem that Europe let become a World problem and the United States saved the world.

The decision to plop down these refugees in a newly created state was not an easy solution, but then again, it was a problem born from Hitler - can you really blame them? Now you have these furious Palestinians. Furious at Jews who God Bless them survived the Holocaust and were given a new home. Now they're being told they're home is owned by someone else so GTFO.

It's a no win situation. You feel bad for the Palestinians, too. Someone basically came in and said, "half of this land isn't yours anymore." I mean, that's some gangster shit right there.

But, both of these countries need to realize that there isn't going to be a clear winner. One of them won't blow the other out of existence... it's not going to happen. They need to spend their time doing things that are productive...

In any case, I'm off to watch the video, thanks for the link.
 
trigatch4 said:
Before viewing the video, I want to say:

What was the United States to do? Welcome all these people to the United States? Hitler was European problem that Europe let become a World problem and the United States saved the world.

The decision to plop down these refugees in a newly created state was not an easy solution, but then again, it was a problem born from Hitler - can you really blame them? Now you have these furious Palestinians. Furious at Jews who God Bless them survived the Holocaust and were given a new home. Now they're being told they're home is owned by someone else so GTFO.

It's a no win situation. You feel bad for the Palestinians, too. Someone basically came in and said, "half of this land isn't yours anymore." I mean, that's some gangster shit right there.

But, both of these countries need to realize that there isn't going to be a clear winner. One of them won't blow the other out of existence... it's not going to happen. They need to spend their time doing things that are productive...

In any case, I'm off to watch the video, thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

What a lot of people don't realise is that is started 40-odd years before the holocaust.

Had it been handled differently then Jews and Arabs would be living in peace in the former British mandate of Palestine, instead the government here gave in to the lobbying from the more extremist Zionists, creating a 2-tier system which gave the minority more rights than the majority.

I feel sorry for Jews that don't support Zionism (such as the guys in the 2nd vid) as the actions of the Zionists have given them a bad name for nearly a century.
 
Just a Quick comment about Zionists, Palestinians etc:

1. There is no such thing as Palestinians. Jordanian, Egyptian and Lebanese Arabs, perhaps, but no Palestinians (at least since the time of Samson).
2. Why do the Arabs get 20+ Whole countries and everyone gives us a bad rap for wanting to keep 1?

Brought to you from sunny northwest Israel.
 
but it clearly says in the word of god that the jews have a rightful claim to the land of Isreal...There. Argument settled.
 
oziman said:
1. There is no such thing as Palestinians. Jordanian, Egyptian and Lebanese Arabs, perhaps, but no Palestinians (at least since the time of Samson).
2. Why do the Arabs get 20+ Whole countries and everyone gives us a bad rap for wanting to keep 1?
Click to expand...

If people are able to call themselves libertarians or black panthers these guys have the right to call each other palestinians. It's all just a label. You guys call yourself jews ... which is more of a religion than a nationality.

Now the bigger question is ... why the fuck would you want to live in a place surrounded by 5 billion (or so) angry arabs? That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. And leave out the "holy land" crap out of your answer, you can worship however you want regardless of what slabs of rock you are surrounded by.

And before you reply, understand that I'm one of those guys who has no ties to either side, equal opportunity hater here. I'm personally for letting you guys bomb the shit out of each other while our military is sipping martinis while defending the important stuff ... like The Playboy Mansion and Google's HQ over here in our borders.
 
oziman said:
Just a Quick comment about Zionists, Palestinians etc:

1. There is no such thing as Palestinians. Jordanian, Egyptian and Lebanese Arabs, perhaps, but no Palestinians (at least since the time of Samson).
2. Why do the Arabs get 20+ Whole countries and everyone gives us a bad rap for wanting to keep 1?

Brought to you from sunny northwest Israel.
Click to expand...

1. Technically you may be correct as Palestine doesn't exist as a country, but since the time of the former British mandate of Palestine those living in that area have identified with the term and called themselves Palestinians. It could equally be argued that there are no Welsh people (at Wales is part of the UK), Alaskans or Hawaiians.

2. Keep 1? It's the way the land was taken from the indigenous people to create Israel based on un-equality and racism. (The British gave Jewish settlers more rights than the Arab population.) We can't undo the past, but we need to understand it to improve the future.

I think you've hit the nail on the head by emphasising the "us and them" attitude which is at the root of this problem.
 
In all seriousness, It's a giagantic bumblefuck. I don't know who's right and who's wrong. It seems like both sides have been royally screwed by third parties. And I have no idea how or if this is ever going to be solved. It's getting worse, there doesn't seem to be an end and I'm tired of my country sticking it's nose in it. If the US is going to be involved it should be diplomatic, there should be no sides.
 
turbolapp said:
In all seriousness, It's a giagantic bumblefuck. I don't know who's right and who's wrong. It seems like both sides have been royally screwed by third parties. And I have no idea how or if this is ever going to be solved. It's getting worse, there doesn't seem to be an end and I'm tired of my country sticking it's nose in it. If the US is going to be involved it should be diplomatic, there should be no sides.
Click to expand...

It's a bit different here as I kinda think we created the problem, we should help sort it out. I very much agree that we shouldn't take sides but unfortunately is seems that the Zionist lobby is very good at persuading our elected representatives to do just that, take sides.
 
turbolapp said:
but it clearly says in the word of god that the jews have a rightful claim to the land of Israel...There. Argument settled.
Click to expand...

Hate to say it guys, but this is what the argument boils down to.

If you (or we, really) believe, then that's the reason for being here. If not, no reason for being here.


The implementation, unfortunately, has proven to be a bit difficult.

On a purely government/state non religion related level:

Lest we forget, the primary purpose of government is to provide for the common defense. When 16 year old Arabs start blowing themselves on buses, then there is no choice but to put a stop to it.

We didn't start this, but we will finish it.

Cheers.
 
This would be an awesome idea for a forum. Just let various fundys rant at each other. I'd have 100k pages in two weeks.
 
Jewish interest in current Israel began when Abraham migrated to Canaan around 1800 BC. Since then the Jewish people have owned/shared the land with the Arabs for thousands of years.

So the Palestinians stating total claim to this land is very flimsy at best. Sure they have lived "in the area" for thousands of years but so have the Jews.

I am thankful the Jews are where they are at. I sleep a little better at night knowing that the Jews are there ready to pull the trigger if necessary. Because I know the west is to fucking scared to really fight the religion of death.
 
oziman said:
Hate to say it guys, but this is what the argument boils down to.

If you (or we, really) believe, then that's the reason for being here. If not, no reason for being here.


The implementation, unfortunately, has proven to be a bit difficult.

On a purely government/state non religion related level:

Lest we forget, the primary purpose of government is to provide for the common defense. When 16 year old Arabs start blowing themselves on buses, then there is no choice but to put a stop to it.

We didn't start this, but we will finish it.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

How will you finish it? (I say "you" as you used "we")

By killing 10 Arabs for every one Israeli?

Just as more suicide bombs in Israel make the public more inclined to support a hard line response, increased persucution of Palestinians drives more of them towards the extremists resulting in more suicide bombings, more disproportionate reprisals and so on and so on...
 
popeye said:
Jewish interest in current Israel began when Abraham migrated to Canaan around 1800 BC. Since then the Jewish people have owned/shared the land with the Arabs for thousands of years.

So the Palestinians stating total claim to this land is very flimsy at best. Sure they have lived "in the area" for thousands of years but so have the Jews.

I am thankful the Jews are where they are at. I sleep a little better at night knowing that the Jews are there ready to pull the trigger if necessary. Because I know the west are to fucking scared to really fight the religion of death.
Click to expand...

Religion of death? Voodoo maybe? Or Spiritualism?
 
I always find it funny when Western apologists always say "It's not all Muslims who do this (crashing into buildings, blowing up embassies, hijacking planes, etc, etc, etc). but just Muslim extremists."

Frankly, having lived in this region of the world for a while now, I can't really tell the difference.

How will this end? My ideal solution is the resettlement of Arabs in the Judea, Samaria and Gaza areas into Jordan proper. Of course Jordan wouldn't be so happy with this, with Black September and all.

In any event, the Land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people. We were unfortunately displaced for a very long time, but we're back and God willing this time it's to stay. It's my hope that we will continue to take every measure necessary to protect our people, our country and our interests as a Jewish people, but with the way this country is being run, who knows.
 
oziman said:
I always find it funny when Western apologists always say "It's not all Muslims who do this (crashing into buildings, blowing up embassies, hijacking planes, etc, etc, etc). but just Muslim extremists."

Frankly, having lived in this region of the world for a while now, I can't really tell the difference.

How will this end? My ideal solution is the resettlement of Arabs in the Judea, Samaria and Gaza areas into Jordan proper. Of course Jordan wouldn't be so happy with this, with Black September and all.

In any event, the Land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people. We were unfortunately displaced for a very long time, but we're back and God willing this time it's to stay. It's my hope that we will continue to take every measure necessary to protect our people, our country and our interests as a Jewish people, but with the way this country is being run, who knows.
Click to expand...

So, using the same logic, all Israelis kill kids in Gaza and Lebanon? Or is it that all Jews that are child-killers? Doesn't make sense to me to judge any entire group of people based on the actions of some of it's members.

What is your view of non-jewish Israelis? Christian, Arab, Atheist or Samaritan - Should they be kicked out as well?

Personally I don't believe that any land actually belongs to anyone but that is going off topic.

Not much point discussing it now the G word has been mentioned. An argument based on logic and impartiality can never win against "beliefs".
 
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