The root cause of 9/11 - why the west is hated.

[NonProphet]

.... Fuck religion and religious people.

America needs to mind its own business and stay on our side of the ocean and stop trying to help other countries and stop pissing other people off.

 

[popeye]

Personally, I think the only fair solution is one unlikely to happen: One secular state with fair and open elections and equal rights for everyone regardless of race or religion.

One-state solution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While this would be an excellent solution in a perfect utopia, it will never happen in the "real" world.

 

[oziman]

So, using the same logic, all Israelis kill kids in Gaza and Lebanon? Or is it that all Jews that are child-killers? Doesn't make sense to me to judge any entire group of people based on the actions of some of it's members.

When you have a society that encourages and rewards suicide bombers and promises them a place in heaven, then something is wrong with the entire social fabric.

What is your view of non-jewish Israelis? Christian, Arab, Atheist or Samaritan - Should they be kicked out as well?

Whoever is willing to cast their fate with the Jewish people is more then welcome to stay.

Personally I don't believe that any land actually belongs to anyone but that is going off topic.

Not much point discussing it now the G word has been mentioned. An argument based on logic and impartiality can never win against "beliefs".

Ah... Now I know you've never been out here. You can't go 4000 miles in any direction (except Europe) and not bring God in to it.

 

[powell1]

I have to say that all of this fighting shit always reminds me of a quote I heard in a movie. I had to look up the movie, it was Training Day:

Jake Hoyt: Oh, what, so just let the animals wipe themselves out, right?
Alonzo Harris: God willing. Fuck 'em

a-fucking-men.

 

[LazyHippy]

When you have a society that encourages and rewards suicide bombers and promises them a place in heaven, then something is wrong with the entire social fabric.

Just as extremist Christians and Jews emphasise certain elements of their religious texts, so do Muslims - Most Muslims don't believe killing innocent people will get them a load of virgins just as most Christians don't believe that they'll go to hell for eating seafood.

The Torah, Bible and Koran were all written in a world that is very different from the one we live in now and while most religious people understand that and treat them appropriately the extremists/fundamentalists don't seem to. Unfortunately it's the weaker and more susceptible members of the communities that are drawn towards the extremist views. Fairly easy when you get your house bulldozed because your second cousin launched a mortar at the people who killed his children.

You seem intelligent enough to recognise the difference between the views of say Osama Bin Laden and Yusaf Islam. ("The Qur'an equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity")

Ah... Now I know you've never been out here. You can't go 4000 miles in any direction (except Europe) and not bring God in to it.

The closest I've been is to Jordan, which is a beautiful country with friendly people. I would love to see a lot more of the middle east someday, but not just the stable, rich countries.

As someone without any religious beliefs it seems blindly obvious to me that all the Abrahamic religions are following the same God - which makes all the killing in his name seem even more pointless.

 

[SniperRyan]

.... Fuck religion and religious people.

To state a similar point of view in a less inflammatory manner, I've been reading this thread wondering: what would happen if "religion" was taken off the list of inalienable rights?

I mean, it would still be a right, but in the sense that smoking is a right as well: you can do it in your home and in your car, but in areas where it infringes on the rights of others you aren't allowed to do it. It would be classified as a life-choice rather than something you can stand behind in political and legal situations.

Perhaps my lack of devotion to a faith prevents me from seeing the internal struggle that someone of faith would have with this decree, but I think it would also help a lot of world problems if people would stop using their religion (and the religion of others) as dividing lines.

 

[fragge]

To state a similar point of view in a less inflammatory manner, I've been reading this thread wondering: what would happen if "religion" was taken off the list of inalienable rights?

I mean, it would still be a right, but in the sense that smoking is a right as well: you can do it in your home and in your car, but in areas where it infringes on the rights of others you aren't allowed to do it. It would be classified as a life-choice rather than something you can stand behind in political and legal situations.

Perhaps my lack of devotion to a faith prevents me from seeing the internal struggle that someone of faith would have with this decree, but I think it would also help a lot of world problems if people would stop using their religion (and the religion of others) as dividing lines.

Agreed mate, religion is no more a defense or right than going to the movies - it's a fucking choice, and has nothing to do with everybody else.

 

[HarveyJ]

Considering the number of other Arabic countries in the region, that all purport to have a brothership of Islam thing going on, I do find it odd that none of these other countries are willing to take Palestinian refugees...

I think one of the biggest problems is simply that Zionists simply refuse to accept that Israel has also committed a number of atrocities, some comparable to the shit that went down in the Holocaust. Certainly not as large a scale, or as systematic, but devastating no less.
I've had this argument with Zionists down here. They equated me to a Holocaust denier of all things (which I don't see as being logically possible as I use that event for indirect comparison)... It's a problem with right-wing people in general.
They're right wing because they must always be 'right'... and you can't reason, debate, or even argue with someone who is always right.

Turbolapp: The problem is that according to the Koran and the Bible, it's also for Muslims and Christians because the kews fell out of favour... or some such.

 

[nop_90]

I am thankful the Jews are where they are at. I sleep a little better at night knowing that the Jews are there ready to pull the trigger if necessary. Because I know the west is to fucking scared to really fight the religion of death.

I did not know that the jews where ready to fight the fundamentalist christians in USA.

A feel a lot better knowing that thanx

 

[oziman]

I think one of the biggest problems is simply that Zionists simply refuse to accept that Israel has also committed a number of atrocities, some comparable to the shit that went down in the Holocaust. Certainly not as large a scale, or as systematic, but devastating no less.

Are you on crack? The Holocaust was the systematic, planned murder of all Jews on the European continent by the Germans with the aid of many residents of the countries they occupied.

To ever, ever, ever, compare anything Jews do with the holocaust already shows your thinking mate.

I was actually going to stop posting to this thread b/c we can all just agree to disagree but whenever I see comments like this it makes my blood boil.

 

[oziman]

I did not know that the jews where ready to fight the fundamentalist christians in USA.

A feel a lot better knowing that thanx

nop! Who let you out of Syndk8?

 

[tke71709]

why the fuck would you want to live in a place surrounded by 5 billion (or so) angry arabs?

Only off by 4.7 billion or so but I'm sure if you took the two seconds to get such a simple fact so wrong that you are well versed in the culture and issues facing the region as a whole.

Seriously, why do people with no clue post on political topics? Oh ya, on the Internet you don't actually see people's jobs dropping them based on the stupidity of your comments like you would in the real world so you don't get that instant feedback.

 

[DuelElite]

I say the british gives wales + northern irleand and half of scotland to the palestinans.

 

[LazyHippy]

Considering the number of other Arabic countries in the region, that all purport to have a brothership of Islam thing going on, I do find it odd that none of these other countries are willing to take Palestinian refugees...

They have done mate:

Palestinian refugees by country as of 2005:

• Jordan 1,827,877 refugees
• Gaza 986,034 refugees
• West Bank 699,817 refugees
• Syria 432,048 refugees
• Lebanon 404,170 refugees
• Saudi Arabia 240,000 refugees
• Egypt 70,245 refugees[1]

Palestinian refugee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Considering the Sunni/Shia situation, in some cases this is like a Catholic country accepting hundreds of thousands of Protestants.... back in the Middle Ages.

 

[zul200289]

And.. Be sure to also watch these videos. It shows the root of the palestinian/israel hatred, which is particularly because of the Israel settlements and the Iron Wall Israel built inside Palestin.

YouTube - The Iron Wall - Part 1

 

[Jon]

Oh fuck you LazyHippy!

You're such a trouble maker, haha. You always start these political and religion threads and get people so riled up here. I can't even read these threads and take them seriously anymore because there is no point in arguing online or offline about politics or religion, as it gets both sides NOWHERE.

 

[LazyHippy]

Are you on crack? The Holocaust was the systematic, planned murder of all Jews on the European continent by the Germans with the aid of many residents of the countries they occupied.

To ever, ever, ever, compare anything Jews do with the holocaust already shows your thinking mate.

I was actually going to stop posting to this thread b/c we can all just agree to disagree but whenever I see comments like this it makes my blood boil.

Hitler also treated many other groups in the same way...

Why are the Roma not getting billions of dollars of military aid from the US to fight the inhabitants of the places that don't want them there?

"...proportionately, the death toll equaled "and almost certainly exceed[ed], that of Jewish victims..." source

Yes, the Nazis killed 6 million Jews 60 years ago, they also killed 10 million Soviet conscripts. Look at how many different ethnic groups have lost millions in conflicts or through persecution throughout history. The holocaust, though horrific wasn't unique. You are right that atrocities like that shouldn't be compared to the current atrocities taking place, they are very different but the unrelated events of the past can't be used to excuse the actions taken now.

If I killed your brother yesterday and planned on murdering your sister tomorrow would that be ok because someone else had killed my family 60 years ago?

 

[LazyHippy]

Oh fuck you LazyHippy!

You're such a trouble maker, haha. You always start these political and religion threads and get people so riled up here. I can't even read these threads and take them seriously anymore because there is no point in arguing online or offline about politics or religion, as it gets both sides NOWHERE.

Hey Jon! I think we learn stuff from each other more when we disagree but keep an open mind... it's good to talk!

Don't we pay politicians to do just that, argue about politics? That might be why the world is so fucked up.

 

[nop_90]

I can not see why you keep on ragging on hitler.
He was just implementing ideas thought up in USA.
Many of USA's scientists where praised by hitler for thier extensive studies of Eugenics.
[FONT=geneva,arial,sans-serif]http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/offSiteArchive/www.sfgate.com/index.html

Hitler studied American eugenics laws. He tried to legitimize his anti- Semitism by medicalizing it, and wrapping it in the more palatable pseudoscientific facade of eugenics. Hitler was able to recruit more followers among reasonable Germans by claiming that science was on his side. Hitler's race hatred sprung from his own mind, but the intellectual outlines of the eugenics Hitler adopted in 1924 were made in America.

[/FONT] [FONT=geneva,arial,sans-serif]By 1926, Rockefeller had donated some $410,000 -- almost $4 million in today's money -- to hundreds of German researchers. In May 1926, Rockefeller awarded $250,000 toward creation of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Psychiatry. Among the leading psychiatrists at the German Psychiatric Institute was Ernst Rüdin, who became director and eventually an architect of Hitler's systematic medical repression. [/FONT]

 

[Jondoe0069]

If all these foreigners hate America so much, they should take a look at their own shitty fucking countries and realize that they have far more problems than we do. And all the pieces of shit who hate America, but come over here so they can have a better life should be shot. It should be a requirement for any foreigner who wants to stay in America for any length of time to be branded with a big ass US Flag tattoo so they can show how much they love the country they were dying to live in.