Would have been funny if someone yelled "Shoe Bomb!"
- Thread starter kblessinggr
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You definitely have a point, and the truth is this happened because Bush makes us all look bad.
I'm ashamed of being represented by Bush, and the fact that he was "elected" twice by us. That pox upon the planet deserves far worse than a shoe in his face.
This really made me lol. Out of all the crap on this board, this is what you get mad at.
HarveyJ
He is - THE CACTUS!
Actually popeye, if you bother to read all of my post, you'll see I'm not sticking up for Saddam in any way, shape or form.
I was saying that most Iraqis had a certain sense of security, and they did have a country that was as functional as one can get under despotic tyranny, which is better than the current state of complete anarchy. Fear of government doesn't come into it. They are just as afraid now as they were then. Before at least, the fear could be put into the back of their minds because so long as people kept their noses down, they were unlikely to calm to any harm. Nowadays it's simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'd say that fear is a lot worse.
Also, your numbers are out. Amnesty figures would have put the numbered of officially disappeared people and the raped in the order of several hundred thousand (still a horrifically large number). However, considering that the numbers of innocent civilians dead, the numbers equally likely raped, and the millions that have had to flee (which is a new development), the US invasion has to be put on a morally equivalent as the Baath regime level if all that matters is people killed or lives ruined.
Potentially worse as it has happened in less than 1/6th of the time scale.
You can go on about how terrible the Baath regime was... But nothing you say makes it any worse than what's happened and is currently happening. They're BOTH situations that are terrible, and as despicable as it is to say it, the previous one was probably a least worst scenario.
Either way, it's entirely hypothetical because neither you nor or I can test it, but I think most people would prefer to live under a dictatorship that provided basic services and play the low odds that something terrible doesn't happen to them, than live in a place with those odds being several orders of magnitude greater for no net gain other than some nebulous "freedom".
Sure, people would prefer to have both. Freedom AND a functioning country where things are ok, except for a minority.
But history has shown that if a choice has to be made, most people take the lowered odds and mutter about despots and their moustaches.
I was saying that most Iraqis had a certain sense of security, and they did have a country that was as functional as one can get under despotic tyranny, which is better than the current state of complete anarchy. Fear of government doesn't come into it. They are just as afraid now as they were then. Before at least, the fear could be put into the back of their minds because so long as people kept their noses down, they were unlikely to calm to any harm. Nowadays it's simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'd say that fear is a lot worse.
Also, your numbers are out. Amnesty figures would have put the numbered of officially disappeared people and the raped in the order of several hundred thousand (still a horrifically large number). However, considering that the numbers of innocent civilians dead, the numbers equally likely raped, and the millions that have had to flee (which is a new development), the US invasion has to be put on a morally equivalent as the Baath regime level if all that matters is people killed or lives ruined.
Potentially worse as it has happened in less than 1/6th of the time scale.
You can go on about how terrible the Baath regime was... But nothing you say makes it any worse than what's happened and is currently happening. They're BOTH situations that are terrible, and as despicable as it is to say it, the previous one was probably a least worst scenario.
Either way, it's entirely hypothetical because neither you nor or I can test it, but I think most people would prefer to live under a dictatorship that provided basic services and play the low odds that something terrible doesn't happen to them, than live in a place with those odds being several orders of magnitude greater for no net gain other than some nebulous "freedom".
Sure, people would prefer to have both. Freedom AND a functioning country where things are ok, except for a minority.
But history has shown that if a choice has to be made, most people take the lowered odds and mutter about despots and their moustaches.
If anyone threw a shoe at Saddam, they'd be dead before they took the second one off.
Complete anarchy? Did somebody just come from Daily Kos? That's a joke. Just look at current casualty figures - objective ones. Not ones from your far-left sites. Iraq was pretty bad, but it's stable now. And to say that Iraq had a certain sense of 'security' when Saddam was torturing and murdering people is equally laughable.
HarveyJ
He is - THE CACTUS!
Perhaps "security" is the wrong word. "Stability" is probably a better one.
And I'm if you consider Amensty International far left, then I'd hate to see what Christmas charities you're donating to.
And I'm if you consider Amensty International far left, then I'd hate to see what Christmas charities you're donating to.
I know that you are not an American but this is the ideology that is destroying the US. This European/leftest/global/socialist mind fuck way of thinking. So as long as everyone has electricity and a bed to sleep in everything is allright?
Hey! look our next door neighbors 7 year old daughter is getting raped in front of her whole family. Just turn your head and everything will be allright. Hey! maybe if we swear allegence to the government, turn our neighbors in to the goons and fly a banner in honor of the murderous and corropt government, we will continue to recieve our rations of food and electricity!
The left may be able to accecpt a slaves life but I am not. I would rather not live like that. If I wasn't able to handle it myself; I would welcome a foreign military to invade my country and kick the murderous socialpaths from office.
The western (espcially the US) millitaries are the best and most compassionate in the world. Sure you have some bad apples but on most part our guys have been over there helping the Iraqi citizens as much as they can. I was involved in this first hand and I saw the good our guys did for those people. I saw on a couple of occasions our guys lose their lives while helping an Iraqi out.
The Matrix one is the shit! I can't wait for the lulz that will ensue from the gifs of Obama's impeachment.
Damn, rage much over other peoples ideas that you don't agree with?
LOL..liberals, marxist, socialist etc. are so easy!
When are you liberals gona let someone else have their opinions without jumping down their throats. You are the folks that believe in allowing everyone to have their own ideas....right?
That's not a very intelligent response. I'm sure you agree with the basic premise - that this 'reporter' would not have the freedom to loft his shoe if not for the very man he threw it at.
Of course, we now know this 'reporter' whom the New York Times suddenly loves was a Saddam lackey, so it's not entirely surprising. He was probably safe as long as he wrote glowing articles for Saddam and turned his back to the women and children Saddam was blatantly murdering.
Anyone who cannot acknowledge this simple fact is a far-left loon - plain and simple. Go back to Daily Kos or Democratic Underground or wherever you scarf up your daily dish of leftwing propaganda.
I don't really know how old exactly Old Goat is but from what I recall he's pretty old. I don't really think it's appropriate to address an elder such as him in such a fashion!
And everyone who doesn't agree with you is instantly a fag hippie from California, you're as bad as the far left liberals you hate so damn much.
Idiot.
Me equating a liberal as being a fag from San Fran is no different than your kind assuming I am a whilte male from some southern state!
I make that generalization as a joke, your kind makes it thinking it is fact!
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