[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdx_2cuPgQQ]YouTube - ABC 20/20 Takes on Health Care Reform[/ame]
20/20 - STOSSEL DESTROYS OBAMA ON HEALTHCARE
- Thread starter hellblazer
- Start date
Yeah, I don't get the chance that often, but this was a great piece. I like how libertarians attack both sides. We need more representation of them in Congress.
You won't see them in Congress because they are generally against the state. It's not a matter of being anti-policy or anti-party. They oppose the institutional use of force to circumvent the market and property rights.
Check out Stossel's "Bailouts and Bull" on Youtube. It's fantastic.
I like Stossel and agree with him for the most part... but he totally blew over the fact that there are people, like me, who are "uninsurable" and can't get basic coverage for less than $1,000/month.
I believe it's appalling that Obama's administration is even trying to get this passed. If you don't think this is a bad idea, read here:
HR 3200 is 1017 pages long. You can print it and study it if you like. Link to the bill itself is:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf
Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and you change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option.
. Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure.
. Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed.
. Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process).
. Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
. Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
. Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
. Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
. Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN).
. Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
. Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
. Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens.
. Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and AmeriCorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
. Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
. Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
. Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
. Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
. Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
. Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll.
. Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll.
. Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
. Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
. Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial, medical, and personal records.
. Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
. Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
. Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
. Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
. Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
. Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
. Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
. Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
. Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
. Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited from owning and investing in healthcare companies.
. Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
. Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
. Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
. Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
. Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
. Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
. Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, encourages assisted suicide (euthanasia?)
. Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
. Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
ON PAGE 425 OF OBAMA’S HEALTH CARE BILL, the Federal Government will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a mandatory counseling session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to them just how to end their own life earlier. Yes…They are going to push assisted SUICIDE to cut Medicare and healthcare spending! Health care will be denied based on age. $500
$500 Billion will be cut from Seniors healthcare. The only way for that to happen is to drastically cut health care, the old people will be cut first. Paying for your own care will not be an option…it will not be allowed.
. Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
. Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
. Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
. Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
. Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
. Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
. Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
Check it out in the original based on the page numbers. Then call your representative and tell them to vote NO!!
Alex
HR 3200 is 1017 pages long. You can print it and study it if you like. Link to the bill itself is:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf
Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and you change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option.
. Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure.
. Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed.
. Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process).
. Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
. Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
. Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
. Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
. Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN).
. Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
. Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
. Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens.
. Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and AmeriCorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
. Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
. Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
. Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
. Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
. Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
. Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll.
. Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll.
. Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
. Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
. Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial, medical, and personal records.
. Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
. Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
. Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
. Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
. Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
. Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
. Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
. Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
. Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
. Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited from owning and investing in healthcare companies.
. Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
. Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
. Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
. Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
. Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
. Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
. Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, encourages assisted suicide (euthanasia?)
. Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
. Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
ON PAGE 425 OF OBAMA’S HEALTH CARE BILL, the Federal Government will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a mandatory counseling session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to them just how to end their own life earlier. Yes…They are going to push assisted SUICIDE to cut Medicare and healthcare spending! Health care will be denied based on age. $500
$500 Billion will be cut from Seniors healthcare. The only way for that to happen is to drastically cut health care, the old people will be cut first. Paying for your own care will not be an option…it will not be allowed.
. Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
. Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
. Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
. Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
. Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
. Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
. Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
Check it out in the original based on the page numbers. Then call your representative and tell them to vote NO!!
Alex
You realize that $1,000 / month is a (edit: probably. based on risk analysis of some sort) rational price decision and you're asking the rest of the country to pay for it for you? Other people, who don't have health problems, should have to pay for your problems?
Don't get me wrong dude, if you were sick, I'm sure WickedFire would jump in to help you out. We like you. You're a good person. But, you really think Bill Bob in Texas, who's never met you should have to take care of YOU?
Do you not have a moral issue with stealing?
I don't know if Subigo agrees, but the problem isn't that $1,000 a month might be a fair price for the plan (which is again a pre-payment plan, not actual insurance).
It's that he should be able to shop for a $50, $100 and $250 plan. His choices are limited.
It's a captured and regulated market that is going to become more regulated as the state moves in. The solution to Subigo's problem is more healthcare all around which will lead to lower costs. He needs access to more insurers and doctors so he can shop ala carte if he wants.
People act as if awesome healthcare for a low price is possible. But the answer is, whether its private insurers or the government providing it, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.
The government will give it to you for free, but it will suck. Waiting lines, rationing, etc...
Private insurers will give you good quality, but they'll charge you a lot.
The solution? Work harder. Make more money.
I'm poor as fuck, but I would rather die from being 'uninsured' than let the government run healthcare.
Bingo. I illegally dodge the Japanese national health insurance because they charge you for full family coverage, so it's a fucking ripoff for single people. I have private insurance from a company in New Zealand, at 15% of the cost with way smaller deductibles. It's technically illegal for me to exercise my choice, but look how much money I save if I shop around anyway. That should be legal.
Right now, private insurers charge a lot because they don't have a lot of competition. Open up the market, and prices will fall and supply will boom. Problem solved.
High quality, low priced care is possible. If the market is allowed to work and allocate scarce resources efficiently.
I don't understand what pre-payment health coverage is. Does that mean you're "buying" a deposit in a savings account? Why can't you manage your own savings account?
Note: Canadian. My health insurance costs me and every other British Columbian $54 / month. In turn I get service where the doctors are paid based on number of patients treated, meaning they push you out the door as fast as possible, and we intentionally understaff our general practitioners so that you can't have competition between them on quality.
Note: Canadian. My health insurance costs me and every other British Columbian $54 / month. In turn I get service where the doctors are paid based on number of patients treated, meaning they push you out the door as fast as possible, and we intentionally understaff our general practitioners so that you can't have competition between them on quality.
Would you bid on a keyword that cost 50.00 and converts every time but the offer only pays 25.00 ? Umm Fuck no there no profit to be made and the insurance company's all need to make money so if they feel your a risk they have all the right to charge you more. I don't understand why people don't think this is fair.
Maybe google should charge more per click if you have a bigger budget and less if you have a smaller budget it's only fair right? Someone get Obama on the phone.
Maybe google should charge more per click if you have a bigger budget and less if you have a smaller budget it's only fair right? Someone get Obama on the phone.
When you insure a car, do you insure the tires against wear and replacement? Do you get insurance that covers oil changes?
Of course not.
Those are regular, expected expenses. So are regular doctor visits. So are regular shots and treatments.
Most health care coverage (expensive plans) are expensive because they don't only cover major medical expenses like emergency surgeries or onset of chronic diseases (if they do at all) but they cover lots of little things that should never be insured against because they are likely to happen in the first place.
Insurance is a scheme of pooled risk. Everyone puts in money, and they can claim when they have had a negative result. The idea being that not everyone claims, and not everyone claims at the same time. Insurance is meant to be a hedge against risk.
Modern health insurance has everyone claiming everything, all of the time. So the health insurers start declining claims, and refusing to insure anyone who is likely to make claims. Basically reversing it back to pre-pay.
The purpose of a "health savings account" is for people to save for their own care in a fund, which allows them defer taxes on the amount saved. So instead of paying $1k in taxes, maybe they save that $1k in their own health savings account.
It is wildly unpopular among bureaucrats because it allows people to run their own lives.
Could you expound on this? Are you just talking rolling back government regulation and redtape, etc..? What exactly is stifling this market?