Looks like America WILL have National Health Care after tonight
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Well, the market wasn't/isn't meeting some needs. So society steps in to fill the need instead.
Things that are already provided as a public service, for example: education, emergency services, roads. Help with food, housing, and health care for those who are unable to adequately meet their own needs.
The market fails to provide basic necessities to them, if they can't afford it.
Brain transplants? Trips to Jupiter? Why use those as examples? They aren't remotely necessary and only confuse the issue. There is more than enough food production that no one needs to go hungry (at least, that's true in the US).
Did I suggest price fixing? I'm suggesting it's okay to socialize (some of) the cost of some necessities.
I love how republicans pick and choose when to go by the "states rights" but there entire party has been a pain in the ass in recognizing medical marijuana rights in numerous states.
I have good friends and family doing time because they followed state law and now rot in a federal prison.
Im all for states right. Keep the fucking feds out of my life.
I have good friends and family doing time because they followed state law and now rot in a federal prison.
Im all for states right. Keep the fucking feds out of my life.
^this^
And ditto here considering my mom too has cancer.
That's all the time we've got for today. See you in a few days.
So you make pedantic points as a distraction when you know what I meant. There's enough production for everyone to have affordable healthcare.
I said healthcare isn't finite because there's no physical limit to how much you can have in a country, its just a matter of how much you want, and every country in the world is far below the limit of what they can afford, so talking about healthcare being finite is just pointless.
well it completely depends on where your morals come from, but most people would say that taking someone's car to pay for someone else's life is moral.
Electoral mandate usually works..
No its called perfect communism, and its a dream. Charity never goes the whole way. It never has and it never will. You're forced to choose the lesser of two evils. Infringing on someone's property rights is the lesser of two evils.
Two words: social contract. You live in society, you benefit from it, therefore you are obligated to pitch in, as you are able. Society will help you when you're down, but it expects the same from you when you aren't. No man is an island. If you have achieved wealth in your life it is because society has facilitated that (not downplaying personal effort here, but that's only part of the equation). You could not achieve any great wealth in a vacuum. You depend on other people, on society, for what you have.
I don't think one person on here who is against free health care is okay with free education. That's why everyone finds such a statement elementary. Real Americans on here ARE NOT okay with "free" education. Such a point is useless to either side as the Fake Americans are for both and the Real Americans are for neither. I don't know anyone on here who is torn between one and the other.
It's hardly true. It's the same bullshit line liberals throw around like, "Why are you against free healthcare? You didn't have a problem with Social Security and Medicare!"
It's a pathetic argument, as if people are supposed to be railing against programs that have existed for years and will never be dismantled. It's dishonest. Those programs(free education, SS, Medicare) will never be gone. They're already ingrained into the psyche of America. This one on the other hand can be destroyed.
The stupid point was that you supposedly have to be constantly calling for the dismantling of Social Security, Medicare, and free education if you want to bash this bill, in other words insinuating anyone who opposes this bill a hypocrite. It's a typical bitch move liberals pull. It didn't have anything to do with what you said. 60-70% of the people here are free market proponents, but they're also realistic about which programs could actually be cut. It's the same tired leftist tactic of calling their opponents hypocrites instead of actually engaging, which is generally all that exists in the leftist's arsenal, which is why we get such brilliant gems in response like the above "I know you are, but what am I?" type one-liners, because anything beyond that would expose the absolute intellectual poverty that's there. She latched onto your explanation like a drowning man desperately grasping for a lifeboat. Uber's right, you cover her ass way too much.
EDIT: Looks like Slayerment caught the dishonesty too.
So if the government fails to meet a need, then the market could step in?
My point was, your statement was a non sequitur.
How do you determine who is not able to meet their own needs?
Is it because they have little or no purchasing power? If so, why? Why are they not able to buy things other people are able to buy?
Because I wanted to illustrate how silly it is that you think that lack of purchasing power is a failure of markets.
So why is there enough food, and enough cell phones, and enough clothing, but not enough education or health care? What differentiates these products?
Well, it is very easy for you to recommend taking money from others in order to do good things.
Of course, if you wanted to help people, you didn't need the government to force you to donate money. You could do that without a bill.
When you socialize costs, you take from the people who pay their way, and give to the ones who do not. That is price fixing. You take people who are priced out of the market, and buy their way in, by pricing the taxed individual out of some other markets they may have spent their money on.
All central economic planning, is based on price fixing direct or indirect.
Well apparently not, because then this bill would not be needed. Right?
What? Health care is finite. It costs time and resources to produce doctors, hospitals, equipment and drugs. Those resources can be put to other use, if they are used for health care, then some other sector of the economy cannot utilize those resources.
C'mon man. We're nowhere near a world of no scarcity.
Two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.
Democracy is just mob rule. It has nothing to do with individual liberty.
Do you support individual liberty and humanity? Or do you believe you only have rights if you are in the group with the most votes?
Charity has nothing to do with communism. In communism, there is no property, and thus there cannot be charity. Charity exists only where there is property to gift.
No one is forced to choose the lesser of two evils. That's nonsense.
If you infringe on property rights, you undermine the the premise under which you are claiming to act. That is to preserve the life and liberty of X, you will violate the life and liberty of Y. At the end of the day, it means you don't really care about life and liberty, you simply favor X over Y.
Which would be the honest answer, instead of making emotional appeals about how it is necessary to steal (commit evil) in order to help people (commit good).
But then we live in societies where people are taught to be in a state of doublethink constantly. War is Peace. Terror is War. Peace is Terror.
I almost made a serious reply to one of the reactionaries in this thread. :nopenope:
I don't really like how this is going to eat up more in taxes while not providing me much benefit personally. And from what I've read, I'll get penalized for having too nice a health care policy?
Whack.
I don't really like how this is going to eat up more in taxes while not providing me much benefit personally. And from what I've read, I'll get penalized for having too nice a health care policy?
Whack.
Social contract theory is nonsense, because it is an implicit, not explicit contract. No one agrees to be in a society where all of their rights and property can be taken from them if a majority wills it. No Jew agrees to a German social contract theory that can see him sent to the ovens.
You should Google Lysander Spooner's "Constitution of No Authority" which clearly explains how legally, a contract you didn't sign, cannot apply to you. A contract which is applied against you without your consent, is in fact slavery.
That didn't work in the Soviet Union, which was the model of the collectivism of which you speak.
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
That is the communist creed. It doesn't work because humans don't act unless there is a psychological profit in it. Such systems always break down, and everyone ends up poor like in Cuba.
The collectivism you keep appealing to would mean that no individual can exist outside the group, and each individual has a higher obligation to the group than they do to their own life. For example, all of your public entitlements. You would insist their funding needs be met, even if it meant I could not have more than the bare essentials myself, no matter how much I work or produce. If you are really committed to your ideal, you would have to allow for one man working to support 100. If you were a communist, you would have to torture and threaten him if he stopped working to support everyone else.
When no one has a best interest, because they are all supposed to be obligated to one another, such a system is the definition of irrationality.
It is social chaos.
I never really got the whole medical marijuana thing. I mean is smoking pot so important to some people that they hinge their whole political outlook on it.
Everyone I know smokes weed. Everyday...All the time. Not one of them have went to jail for weed. What do you guys want to do...be able to carry a pound around with you? Smoke them like cigs in public? Grow orchards of it in your back yard? Whats the big deal?
Sorry off topic but Im tired of the healthcare shit. The liberals pushed it through against the majoritys wishes. Nothing left to do but use the rights given to us by the second admendment.
No sweat off my balls.
It just means I'll keep banking it on those colloidial silver, gold coin, water purification, and seed bank affiliate programs.
It just means I'll keep banking it on those colloidial silver, gold coin, water purification, and seed bank affiliate programs.
Don't forget about the "Be your own doctor" survival kit Alex Jones is going to sell. Free surgical knife for the first 500 orders.
On a more serious note, how can we rebill this?