Gay Marriage is now legal in California.

I never thought that my first post would be on a gay thread, but the one thing that bothers is why did we all in California waste our time and vote if they just threw it out?

Who cares who wins, but why spend $$ and time to vote for a prop that one guy can shoot down!?
 


"The evidence shows conclusively that moral and religious views form the only basis for a belief that same-sex couples are different from opposite-sex couples," Walker wrote.
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I don't give a shit either way on this issue, but that quote is fucked up. Gay couples can't procreate without the use of some highly controversial technology. End of story.
 
tangy said:
I don't give a shit either way on this issue, but that quote is fucked up. Gay couples can't procreate without the use of some highly controversial technology. End of story.
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Uhm...no. Artificial insemination isn't controversial. Straight couples use it all the time when they have trouble getting pregnant. My God Daughter (who has two amazing Moms) was conceived that way.
When my cousin and his husband want to have their first kid they're going to find an egg donor. Another thing straight couples do all the time.
 
MikeT3 said:
Uhm...no. Artificial insemination isn't controversial. Straight couples use it all the time when they have trouble getting pregnant. My God Daughter (who has two amazing Moms) was conceived that way.
When my cousin and his husband want to have their first kid they're going to find an egg donor. Another thing straight couples do all the time.
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Situation 1: Two Males marry and want kids

Male 1 donates sperm. Or... Male 2 donates sperm. Where's the egg? Not to mention who carries the child to term?

Situation 2: Two Females marry and want kids

Female 1 donates egg. Or... Female 2 donates egg. Where's the sperm?

What I was referring to is that it's genetically impossible for a gay couple to procreate using their own genes. Which makes them quite different than the average male/female couple.
 
What no comment on how fertility science has helped how many countless straight couples that couldn't have their own kids naturally?
Sperm and Egg Donors aren't "highly controversial technology" There is also adoption. And not all gay couples want to have children. I don't see how this ties into gay marriage at all.
 
MikeT3 said:
What no comment on how fertility science has helped how many countless straight couples that couldn't have their own kids naturally?
Sperm and Egg Donors aren't "highly controversial technology" There is also adoption. And not all gay couples want to have children. I don't see how this ties into gay marriage at all.
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Are you gay? you look it..

miket3.gif
 
Chianti said:
Yeah, could you actually quote the bit that says that, because all I see is cryptic, semi-erotic love poetry that requires a huge amount of interpretation to make any sense of it.
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Here's a link to the passage I'm referring to. Cliff notes version is one of his wives is black, and is asking that the other women of Israel not look down upon her or judge her differently just because she is black. Two things can be gained form that - one, interracial relationships are fine. Two, the church didn't have a problem with it because the book wasn't banned or anything.

Chianti said:
The christian doctrine is fucking disgraceful. It has no place in a modern society, and you should be ashamed of yourself for defending it.
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You're a fucking retard. I'm an atheist so I'm not defending the Bible. I'm pointing out the logical flaws in comparing gay marriage to interracial marriage based on some non-existent biblical comparison of the two.
 
ii silver ii said:
Are you gay? you look it..

miket3.gif
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Nope, but I'd be ok with it if I was. That picture was taken at a black & red fundraising event. Had to dress for the theme, my date picked out the tie. I usually just wear tshirts and jeans.
If you meant my physical appearance, well I've got what I got. I'm alright with it.
 
> Two things can be gained form that - one, interracial relationships are fine.

1 Kings 11:2
They were from nations about which Yahweh had told the Israelites, 'You must not intermarry with them, for they will shift your loyalty to their gods.' But Solomon was deeply attached in his love.Yahweh says not to intermarry with people of other tribes, because of the risk of disloyalty, pluralism and eventual rejection of him. Now, that doesn't reference specifically to colour of skin, but it certainly entails that people of different culture and/or religion should not get married. I think that quote is much clearer than the cryptic poetry you claim does allow interracial marriage. There's also the fact that yahweh gets angry at Solomon's cross-cultural marriages because they lead him to religious pluralism, so yahweh takes away the wealth and power from his heir, Rehoboam (1 Kings 11:43-12:19)

> Two, the church didn't have a problem with it because the book wasn't
> banned or anything

As I said before, the bible also doesn't say anything against marrying pre-pubescent girls, so by your logic the church doesn't mind that either, which makes the church at least amoral, and in most people's eyes, immoral.

> I'm pointing out the logical flaws in comparing gay marriage to interracial marriage

It's not that they're being directly compared as such (not by me anyway), simply that the church is pulling arbitrary, uninformed biases and decisions out of its ass depending on which why the wind is blowing at the time, all the while claiming that they have some sort of objective morality that we should all follow.

They obviously fucking don't, otherwise they would have performed interracial marriages before 1967, and would have prevented the systematic rape of twelve year olds before 1965. These changes in marriage did not come from god OR the church, but from societal enlightenment and development. And that's exactly what's happened with societal perspective of gays. The only difference is that there are literally one or two lines in the bible referencing gay sex, so all of a sudden the church has a big fucking mouth and something to say about marriage.

Anyway, fuck it. Too much time wasted on this thread.
I think I'll leechblock STS from now on. ;P
 
MikeT3 said:
What no comment on how fertility science has helped how many countless straight couples that couldn't have their own kids naturally?
Sperm and Egg Donors aren't "highly controversial technology" There is also adoption. And not all gay couples want to have children. I don't see how this ties into gay marriage at all.
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Damn man, conversation with you is pointless. If you are trying to say that artificial insemination is natural, you are an idiot. The fucking point is that its the only way for them to conceive. Do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up.
 
popeye said:
Civil unions made gays equal. There is no difference between a hetro marriage and a gay civil union...except the name.

another progressive attack on traditional values, christianity and the institution of marriage.

Karl Marx wrote extensively on how marriage and the family were road blocks to a communist utopion society.
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It's not government's place to enforce or allow marriage or civil unions in the first place. If marriage is sacred, it should be left to churches - not government (the furthest thing from sacred).
 
Chianti said:
They were from nations about which Yahweh had told the Israelites, 'You must not intermarry with them, for they will shift your loyalty to their gods.' But Solomon was deeply attached in his love.Yahweh says not to intermarry with people of other tribes, because of the risk of disloyalty, pluralism and eventual rejection of him. Now, that doesn't reference specifically to colour of skin, but it certainly entails that people of different culture and/or religion should not get married.
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That directive has nothing to do with skin color, but their belief system so that's completely irrelevant.

Chianti said:
As I said before, the bible also doesn't say anything against marrying pre-pubescent girls, so by your logic the church doesn't mind that either, which makes the church at least amoral, and in most people's eyes, immoral.
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Why would the bible say anything against underage girls being married? According to a religious person, (and some non-religious people), why would you preclude a sexually mature female from reproducing? Why would they be able to have children if they weren't ready to be married. Even if you believe in evolution you have to wonder about that one...

Chianti said:
They obviously fucking don't, otherwise they would have performed interracial marriages before 1967...
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You're getting your miscegenation laws mixed up. Some churches may have forbid the practice but there were no universal rules against it. There was never a federal law against interracial marriage, only some states had laws against it until they were overturned in 1967. More importantly, the laws that did exist had no basis in religion, whereas it could be argued that laws against homosexuals getting married does have a clear basis in the Bible (and Koran, and Torah etc).

Chianti said:
These changes in marriage did not come from god OR the church, but from societal enlightenment and development. And that's exactly what's happened with societal perspective of gays.
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What do you mean that's exactly what happened with gays? It would seem that according to the vote in question (in one of the most liberal state in the country, too) that societal perspective has not changed to favor gays marrying. It took a gay judge overturning the voters will.

Chianti said:
The only difference is that there are literally one or two lines in the bible referencing gay sex, so all of a sudden the church has a big fucking mouth and something to say about marriage.
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Uh, there is quite a bit more than one or two lines in the bible on that subject. But since I don't consider the Bible to be my ultimate authority I'll leave future bible studying to you.
 
powell1 said:
Damn man, conversation with you is pointless. If you are trying to say that artificial insemination is natural, you are an idiot. The fucking point is that its the only way for them to conceive. Do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up.
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Conversation has nothing to do with natural. It was that it was not some "highly controversial technology". Do yourself a favor, work on those reading 101 skills champ:thumbsup:
 
thunderlips said:
remember when we used to post tits on this forum?
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^good call

to everyone who argues 'one gay judge overturns blah blah blah...' this measure should have never been put on the ballot. You can't vote on something that goes against the constitution. After the civil rights movement of the '60's we amended the constitution so that government couldn't tell anyone who they can or cannot marry (since blacks used to not be able to marry whites).
 
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