$15 Minimum Wage in Seattle Approved



If raising minimum wage to $15 an hour will hurt the middle and working class, how does one explain the high quality of life in places like Norway and Denmark that have high minimum wages and a much smaller difference between classes? I'm honestly just curious how libertarians explain this.
 
Krnuernberger said:
If raising minimum wage to $15 an hour will hurt the middle and working class, how does one explain the high quality of life in places like Norway and Denmark that have high minimum wages and a much smaller difference between classes? I'm honestly just curious how libertarians explain this.
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This is a question I tried to address in my previous post.

In essence, we can look at Norway and say the following:

1. Norway has a high quality of life.

2. Norway has a high minimum wage.

3. Norway has a high quality of life and a high minimum wage.


But we cannot say that Norway has a high quality of life because it has a high minimum wage. Nor can we say that Norway's high minimum wage has no effect on its high quality of life.

Logically, we can assume the two events are correlated. But with respect to empirical data, we don't know what we don't know.
 
Krnuernberger said:
If raising minimum wage to $15 an hour will hurt the middle and working class, how does one explain the high quality of life in places like Norway and Denmark that have high minimum wages and a much smaller difference between classes? I'm honestly just curious how libertarians explain this.
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You want a socialist idea explained by a libertarian outlook?
 
Krnuernberger said:
If raising minimum wage to $15 an hour will hurt the middle and working class, how does one explain the high quality of life in places like Norway and Denmark that have high minimum wages and a much smaller difference between classes? I'm honestly just curious how libertarians explain this.
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The United States has over twice as many illegal aliens (11 million) as the entire population of Norway (5 million).

There are zero similarities between the two countries. Size, population, demographics, history etc. You might as well be asking why fish can't climb trees.
 
BigWill said:
Not free, but in the end they will pay for itself. You could have say 2 counter staff and 2 drive through staff. @10 / hour x 30 hours a week. $1,200 not counting all cost and risk when having employees.

It's already being used by jack in the box https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfKbaX4jE9U
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The Jack in the Box terminals are awesome, there is never a line. I can normally walk straight to the kiosk and place my order, bypassing thee 2-3 people waiting for the one person working the register. Consumer preferences take time to change and become accustomed to new technologies.
 
Krnuernberger said:
If raising minimum wage to $15 an hour will hurt the middle and working class, how does one explain the high quality of life in places like Norway and Denmark that have high minimum wages and a much smaller difference between classes? I'm honestly just curious how libertarians explain this.
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There is high quality of life in those places, but $15 isn't going to provide the same quality that many think it would, as those are the first and third most expensive nations to live in, depending on what numbers are being looked at.

A 2012 Big Mac cost $9.63 in Denmark.

Cost of Living Index by Country 2014
Big Mac Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Because the price of goods and services can be raised, the hurting or helping from a minimum wage is limited to a degree. Many people who argue in favor or against it seem to forget this.

The effects from a minimum wage increase of a defined US dollar amount will be different depending on the area. As mentioned in here, Seattle going to $15 isn't as extreme as it would be in many other areas of the US, and it definitely wouldn't be anything like doing it in Mexico City, where it is about $5 per day.

It's possible that Mexico could raise their quality of life by being more like Denmark in certain ways, but it's not like they could just raise their minimum wage to $15 an hour and then have that be a magic bullet solution.
 
BigWill said:
Not free, but in the end they will pay for itself. You could have say 2 counter staff and 2 drive through staff. @10 / hour x 30 hours a week. $1,200 not counting all cost and risk when having employees.
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If it were the end of the day, I'd agree wholeheartedly. It's usually the end of the year or a longer period, maybe even 5 years out.

A McD's owner doesn't even know if he'll be in business 1-5 years out... He's got to make profits this month to pay the huge mortgage, franchise, payroll, and materials costs or he's out of business next month.

This is the same reason you never see solar panels on the roof of any fast food franchises. The payoff is just too far in the future for them as long as the local grid's kilowatt/hour is cheap enough to make profit from.

Double the electricity rates however, & we might start seeing some solar panels.
 
Moxie said:
"The influential Congressional Budget Office – widely viewed as a nonpartisan scorekeeper for US fiscal and economic policy – weighed in on a controversial issue Tuesday, releasing an estimate that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour would cost the nation’s economy 500,000 jobs...

The CBO reached its conclusion by drawing on an array of mainstream academic studies, not by doing its own original research."

Would a $10.10 minimum wage really cost 500,000 jobs? Obama and CBO at odds. (+video) - CSMonitor.com
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This is hardly the first time that the CBO has released a report stating that minimum wage increases also increase unemployment.

In my town (Rural Ohio) a minimum wage increase from just $7.25 to something like $9/hr would shut down no less than a dozen businesses in my area. Small mom & pop type shops that depend on low skilled, teenage employees to operate. When you can't get more efficiency from less workers, increase prices, you close your doors.

I would immediately fire a worker in my labor pool additionally if wages went up. I pay my workers darn good (One guy is making $20+hr from me after being on for a year, he will top out around $25/hr). I do however start all my workers at $8/hr in order to sort them out. A increase would just make that process take longer.
 
lukep said:
If it were the end of the day, I'd agree wholeheartedly. It's usually the end of the year or a longer period, maybe even 5 years out.

A McD's owner doesn't even know if he'll be in business 1-5 years out... He's got to make profits this month to pay the huge mortgage, franchise, payroll, and materials costs or he's out of business next month.

This is the same reason you never see solar panels on the roof of any fast food franchises. The payoff is just too far in the future for them as long as the local grid's kilowatt/hour is cheap enough to make profit from.

Double the electricity rates however, & we might start seeing some solar panels.
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A McD's franchisee is required to have about 3 years worth of liquid capital to be eligible for a franchise location. McDs requires one of the highest capital investments of any franchises out there. The failure rate additionally is absurdly low.
 
Question, I'm curious as it hasn't been brought up.

If you are making 8 or 9 bucks an hour, on food stamps and medicaid and you get a raise to fifteen will you lose those and, if so, how much would you really come out ahead in the end or would you come out further behind than you were?
 
DewChugr said:
Question, I'm curious as it hasn't been brought up.

If you are making 8 or 9 bucks an hour, on food stamps and medicaid and you get a raise to fifteen will you lose those and, if so, how much would you really come out ahead in the end or would you come out further behind than you were?
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The amount of people on food stamps and medicaid has a lot less to do with income levels and a lot more to do with disenfranchising individuals and families to ensure they are reliant on the state.

Rest assured, if the number of dependents starts to dwindle for any reason, politicians will dream up some way to increase them again.

Otherwise... who would have an incentive to vote?
 
DewChugr said:
Question, I'm curious as it hasn't been brought up.

If you are making 8 or 9 bucks an hour, on food stamps and medicaid and you get a raise to fifteen will you lose those and, if so, how much would you really come out ahead in the end or would you come out further behind than you were?
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RKSw2Id.jpg


I'm sure these numbers vary by state, but due to the way the government sets income limits on various programs, these welfare cliffs (where it makes more financial sense not to work), are unavoidable.
 
Greetings stupid motherfuckers. Welcome to reality.

The whole discussion of minimum wage is all concocted by the Illuminati to distract you while the Globalist Zionist elites shove Prozac down your throats and fluoride into your water supplies.

Have you seen a blue angel demonstration recently? Sheeple, Obama is using those airplanes jet streams to imbue chemicals that infiltrate your lungs and rot your brain from within so that you agree with everything your overlords tell you on CNN and Fox. Stanford University has confirmed that these chemtrails are more deadly and contagious than the swine flu combined with AIDS.

All we can do is wait in silence while Alex Jones creates his patented Fluoride Water Filtration system to protect your kids; after all, those kids are the future leaders who will rebel against the Jew-imposed FEMA labor camps.

In the meantime, buy your anti-zionist vitamins at infowars.com to protect yourself from the New World Order. Remember America, you're not a real patriot if you don't stand up to this tyranny. Always remember 1776. 9/11. BUY GOLD. IT IS ON THE UP AND UP 1000000%.

You see, you think you're all smart by having this discussion on the wickedfire. To the contrary, you are not, for your arrogance and hubris have blinded you all to reality. If you love your kids, your parents, your dogs, and your cats, you will go on infowars and buy my shit or I will fucking kill you.

WAKE UP AMERICA

disclaimer: (none of these words belong to me, they were all said by Lukep in a private wickedfire IRC. Any questions? PM lukep)
 
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