Anyone else hate not being a programmer?

[mpbiz]

No new development knowledge, but I pretty much learned to become an online server / software security expert since this thread was started. Does that count?

No it does not.

What you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[wezcountry]

I like this thread. I went to business school but I trained to be a developer with an American bank, many years ago. I then opened my own small software company in Romania. During that time I learned a lot about managing the process of finding work (selling) and packaging in a way that the developers could understand, taking into account cultural communication etc. I had a PM in Romania but I was ultimately responsible for hiring and firing, dealing with the customers etc. I did this for around nine years.

I sold that company and was working more or less part-time, some SEO, some websites - I still had some projects coming in and because I didn't want the hassle of employees again I started using remote out-sourcers in Ukraine and India for projects. I had mixed experience with this. It's a different set of challenges and in some ways more stressful than having your own team.

At this stage I hadn't done any real development for over ten years. A couple of months ago an old client of mine told me that had been let-down by a software agency and his ass was in the fire, and he asked me if I could quickly develop a Facebook app for him. It was good money so obviously I said 'yes'. His spec was not clear and he was under significant pressure to deliver to a Government ministry which = a potential disaster scenario. I figured I didn't have time to grapple with an outsourcer so I decided instead to do the work myself. I figured if I could quickly give him something simple to show his client the pressure would be reduce and we would have scope to improve on incrementally as we went along. The project has a back-end admin system and a front-end - technologies are mySQL, PHP, Jquery / AJAX: the usual suspects and not hard to learn. I bought a couple of text books, did a couple of Lynda courses and spend a lot of time on Stackoverflow. I worked non-stop for about three weeks, juggling other stuff. I outsourced a nasty SQL SELECT that I just couldn't figure-out for $10 and for me this is key: if you have a tough but small tightly defined problem - outsource it and get the outsourcer to explain the solution.

He loved what I did. My shit was better, he said, than the agency he had used. Now bearing in mind that I'm 52 and probably way past my intellectual prime, I am pretty sure most of you on this thread could easily do what I did. He has since sent two other Facebook apps my way, asked me to consider taking-on a phone app project in January. At this stage I might figure-out how to outsource discrete parts of the project, but I will never give away the whole thing to someone else.

 

[Mahzkrieg]

Sure, there's that.

But I was under the impression that coding skills could be beneficial for grey hat/black hat stuff that would give you a leg up on the competition. I know you could build your own cloaker but what else could you do with a good background in PHP or some similar skill that would help you immensely with your IM career?

When you can program, you can iterate and evolve exactly how you'd like.

Your range of possibilities, visions, and ambitions are no longer abbreviated by the scope of the closest-fitting Wordpress plugin.

 

[mpbiz]

I have something new I'd like to add to the post I made here: http://www.wickedfire.com/2138445-post99.html

The 3 courses that I listed there should still stay in the same order, but you need to add another one in there.

The thing I realized about a lot of the course "packs" that are designed to teach you to become an iOS app genius are lacking.

They don't want to teach you how to be a good programmer. Just enough so you can make some stupid iphone apps and tell your friends at starbucks about them.

If you don't believe me, then go take the udemy course I listed on C, and then when you feel like you'll never get past your hurdles go watch the Lynda course.

You'll understand what I mean when you check out this course by Lynda. It's called the Fundamentals Of Programming and you should definitely take this course first before you do anything else.

I just finished the first 5 lessons of the Lynda course and I can honestly say that if I didn't randomly download this and give it a try I would be scratching my head right now.

A ton of shit made no sense whatsoever to me in the udemy ios pack and I could tell that the instructor was cutting corners.

If you take the Lynda course first, then no matter what language you are learning, it will make so much more sense once you have the fundamentals down.

Seriously, I feel like I plugged into the matrix a couple videos into the Lynda course.

Cheers.

 

[o hai guyz]

Yeah there have been times when I've thought things would be much smoother if I understood more about programming. Most of us probably outsource to freelancers and it becomes a pain in the ass finding someone to do each thing, waiting for them to do it, and then finding out they did it wrong.

After outsourcing literally hundreds of tasks I've found a solid group of guys I always go to when I need stuff done. Costs and turnaround time are reduced because I've worked with each of them a lot and referred people to them, and they understand what I'm looking for so not much time is wasted.

At one point I considered hiring 1 or 2 in-house programmers but decided against it (couldn't justify the massively greater cost). Plus I think it's better to work with a programmer who specializes in exactly what you're looking for for that specific project, rather than having an all-in-one programmer who's just "pretty good" at everything.

 

[mpbiz]

Bump.

Still trying to learn as much Objective-C as possible. Don't take shortcuts and try to learn Objective-C or how to create iOS apps BEFORE you take a course on C and even a course on programming fundamentals.

I'm really glad that I took the time to take both Lynda's fundamentals of programming course and a basic C programming course. These will teach you why code looks the way it does, and all of the other little things that are boring but that you need to know.

On Wednesday I'll be starting an iOS specific course and putting all of my Objective-C to the test. I'll post again Wednesday night with an iOS specific update.

Time for a jack and coke.

 

[andymurray]

why learn to code when you can make 10 times what a coder makes by doing other stuff and letting others code?
leverage people and thrive or be limited to what only yourself can do and eat your own brain
I learned to code but that was another story

 

[mpbiz]

let me take the cock out of my arse..
I learned to code but that was another story

I bet it's a cool starry bra.

 

[drave]

When you can program, you can iterate and evolve exactly how you'd like.

Your range of possibilities, visions, and ambitions are no longer abbreviated by the scope of the closest-fitting Wordpress plugin.

due respect to your formidable literary attempt, you didn't exactly paint a broad horizon.

 

[rusvik]

Update: Since claiming to have seen the light in needing to learn programming, I have actually not learnt very much. A bit html and .css and just a bit of php.

The simple problem is that it is still too easy to hustle Google for money.

 

[mattseh]

Update: Since claiming to have seen the light in needing to learn programming, I have actually not learnt very much. A bit html and .css and just a bit of php.

The simple problem is that it is still too easy to hustle Google for money.

So automate that more.

 

[rusvik]

So automate that more.

But how?

Seriously.

My biggest problem is finding people to write content. Everyone thinks they should get paid $20 an hour these days. Actually, I was trying to find euros in Bangkok who would want to write articles, but they're either ballin or stupid.

Then I was considering hiring a couple of interns and pay them a pittance for the chance to work in Thailand, but Thai labor laws suck.

Other than that, it really annoys me how difficult it is to find a company or freelancer who is both skilled at design and simple javascript/php/mysql. It is seemingly either or, you've got your designers who can't code worth anything or your coders who have zero visual skills. So then you need to be the project manager and make them talk together and what not.

I swear, I have a lot more respect for coding project managers than I used to.

 

[mituozo]

But how?

Seriously.

My biggest problem is finding people to write content. Everyone thinks they should get paid $20 an hour these days. Actually, I was trying to find euros in Bangkok who would want to write articles, but they're either ballin or stupid.

Then I was considering hiring a couple of interns and pay them a pittance for the chance to work in Thailand, but Thai labor laws suck.

Other than that, it really annoys me how difficult it is to find a company or freelancer who is both skilled at design and simple javascript/php/mysql. It is seemingly either or, you've got your designers who can't code worth anything or your coders who have zero visual skills. So then you need to be the project manager and make them talk together and what not.

I swear, I have a lot more respect for coding project managers than I used to.

Perhaps, God forbid, $20 an hour is the market rate for what is actually a pretty skilled piece of work?

You're not going to get anywhere trying to "pay people a pittance". Pay people what they're worth. You'll work with better people, get better work done and waste less time.

 

[eliquid]

But how?

Seriously.

My biggest problem is finding people to write content. Everyone thinks they should get paid $20 an hour these days. Actually, I was trying to find euros in Bangkok who would want to write articles, but they're either ballin or stupid.

Then I was considering hiring a couple of interns and pay them a pittance for the chance to work in Thailand, but Thai labor laws suck.

Other than that, it really annoys me how difficult it is to find a company or freelancer who is both skilled at design and simple javascript/php/mysql. It is seemingly either or, you've got your designers who can't code worth anything or your coders who have zero visual skills. So then you need to be the project manager and make them talk together and what not.

I swear, I have a lot more respect for coding project managers than I used to.

Perhaps, God forbid, $20 an hour is the market rate for what is actually a pretty skilled piece of work?

You're not going to get anywhere trying to "pay people a pittance". Pay people what they're worth. You'll work with better people, get better work done and waste less time.

rusvik, I have to say I agree with mituozo.

People have learned they no longer have to put up with the stupid rules employers and society place on them and if $20 is the going price, then so be it.

Also, if you find a coder who can designer or a designer who can code, you are going to pay more then $20 an hour for sure and you will prob end up with someone that is more a generalist then a specialist which brings its own problems.

BTW, how about just hiring someone that needs side work that already works a job? Those people are use to working for less then $20 an hour and being expected to both code/design/write copy and fix keyboards all day for that price. You need to start hitting up already employed people who just need a little extra holiday/side cash who don't know better.

That, and pay market price for workers.

 

[rusvik]

I don't think I've ever paid a euro designer or programmer less than $60/hour which is well worth it when people know what they're doing.

However, as somewhat of a marketer, I dislike the ones charging 300% just because of a good salesteam or their presence on social media and what not. More times than not, I've been hugely dissapointed with 'premium' writing services. Price is 4 times as high as some college student, but results are far from 4 times better. There is a large gap in my experience between the better than average writer - and I'd like to say this category doesn't belong to people trained in writing nessecarily - and then to the awesome writer, who is very often a journalist or a journalist in training.

The problem is that in most European countries, because of huge taxes, those trying to make a living out of writing need to charge a lot - more than their subjective worth to me. The good writers at proportionate rates are usually students or temporarily unemployed people and therefore the turnover is high.

I also sometimes get these absurd offers on writing. I might make it specifically clear that I'm looking for passable quality, but low price and some people will bid $1000 for 10 articles. Those are the pre-internet people bidding.

To that effect, consider yourself lucky that a billion people speak English.

 

[mpbiz]

Bump.

I got half way through an objective-c video course today and the rest of the videos were corrupt and I couldn't play them, so I decided to follow the advice that harrymouni posted in another thread and started going through the big nerd ranch guide to iOS programming.

I just finished chapter 1 and I'm already hooked. I really like their teaching style and for a programming book they still kept everything simple and clear.

I just signed up for my apple dev license and hopefully I'll get my activation email by tomorrow afternoon.

I do have a question for any programmers reading this though.

I am sort of stuck on what to do right now.

I've been told to go through the first 3 chapters of the nerd ranch iOS book and then just use stackoverflow and google to build an app that I want to build, but I'm thinking that I should maybe go through the entire iOS book, or even go through their objective-c book BEFORE finishing their iOS book.

I can't decide what the best choice is because I'm in a hurry and have a really cool app idea I want to create, but at the same time I want to make sure that I am building a solid skill set and will be able to do client work and work on a team IRL and be able to build lots of different types of iOS apps.

Everyone says to just learn the basics and then use stackoverflow, google, and other references to build an app you want to build, but I'm afraid if I do this I won't build a real skill set and will just know how to hack some random stuff together.

Am I being paranoid?

If you guys could offer some advice or input I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

 

[chigga102]

Bump.

I got half way through an objective-c video course today and the rest of the videos were corrupt and I couldn't play them, so I decided to follow the advice that harrymouni posted in another thread and started going through the big nerd ranch guide to iOS programming.

I just finished chapter 1 and I'm already hooked. I really like their teaching style and for a programming book they still kept everything simple and clear.

I just signed up for my apple dev license and hopefully I'll get my activation email by tomorrow afternoon.

I do have a question for any programmers reading this though.

I am sort of stuck on what to do right now.

I've been told to go through the first 3 chapters of the nerd ranch iOS book and then just use stackoverflow and google to build an app that I want to build, but I'm thinking that I should maybe go through the entire iOS book, or even go through their objective-c book BEFORE finishing their iOS book.

I can't decide what the best choice is because I'm in a hurry and have a really cool app idea I want to create, but at the same time I want to make sure that I am building a solid skill set and will be able to do client work and work on a team IRL and be able to build lots of different types of iOS apps.

Everyone says to just learn the basics and then use stackoverflow, google, and other references to build an app you want to build, but I'm afraid if I do this I won't build a real skill set and will just know how to hack some random stuff together.

Am I being paranoid?

If you guys could offer some advice or input I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

I would Recommend you Buy Code Complete and that as the only programming book.

Now you have an idea for an App... So spend a few mins learning enough that you need to get started. And as you need to learn more to implement the features you want learn that.

That way you don't spend time learning concepts that you will not use and will probably forget soon anyways.

 

[mattseh]

Rusvik, presumably you have a fairly set process for ranking churn and burn sites. There are probably stages that involve manual work, that could be automated. Sure, you still need human content writers, but your overall process would be more efficient.

 

[shindig]

I make ios apps without touching obj c and am not "hindered" by not using obj c....depends on the app.

I use a game engine and write everything in C#, then it ports the entire code base to whichever platform you want to publish to.

If you're developing for ios, it outputs a folder that you open in xcode and compile to a native ios app. For android it serializes your project and sends it to android sdk and you get a native .apk of your app. Same for windows, web browsers, standalone pc and mac....

Write once-deploy everywhere is the motto for the sdk and it's fully extensible, you can code in C++ if you wanted, you can still write native obj-c code and use it in the engine for ios specific functionality, or java for android.

I'll make a video when I get to work showing what I'm working on this week, using computer vision on mobiles. I also make programs that use kinect sensor, oculus rift, etc and just about anything can be used with the game engine by the way it was designed to be extensible with 3rd party plugins and ones you make yourself.....

Also have been tying in Oauth 2.0 to the apps to incorporate social sharing API's and shit.

 

[jhoffy22]

Rusvik, presumably you have a fairly set process for ranking churn and burn sites. There are probably stages that involve manual work, that could be automated. Sure, you still need human content writers, but your overall process would be more efficient.

But is the time and effort that will be required to reach that level of efficiency worth it vs the dwindling shelf life of automated seo when we can just pay people like you for the good stuff or use off the shelf public tools?