Anyone sick of scrubs? We are.

It's hardly that simple, because if your leads are crap they are not worth the payout. Get over yourself dude...the advertisers are in business to make a profit, not get 100 crap leads from your splogs or whatever other misleading tactics you may be employing to inflate your earnings (and then cry when they get wiped for being the garbage they are). Affiliates that share your attitude ruin it for the rest of us who are actually providing quality traffic and not just trying to milk an offer and make a quick buck.

So your logic is that if these products are promoted via a flog(not splog ya dumbass) which says the offer works, that is the reason for the shaving? Why is it misleading to say the product works on a flog but somehow isn't misleading being all over the landing page of the offer...or are those testimonials and pitch words on the lp just for shits or what, not following you at all here bud.

Your definition of "quality traffic" is consumers who can be billed the longest without realizing it or do not take the initiative to cancel. Well I don't know of a longest potential billing filter to only get this so called quality, in fact I think it's totally outlandish to propose aquiring this type of lead can be controlled. The merchants are jerry-rigging the situation by shaving.

If the products actually worked and customers weren't billed immediately when it says trial, get into impossible to cancel billing cycles then it wouldn't matter how it was promoted as long as the people are interested in the least. How can netflix, columbia house, credit reports and other reputable companies run on incent? Because the customers that end up getting the product or service are mostly satisfied. It's not about the "quality" of the leads, it's the fact that most rebill products in the cpa market are total dogshit when it comes to actual value.

It's either make your own products or get raped from time to time and quickly implement a rotator. The shaving discussion always seems to turn out like an unpragmatic bitchfest ending up being completely ineffectual.
 


You clearly have had little success in promoting rebills and are just frustrated with the fluctuating EPCs.. you also don't have anywhere NEAR significant data to be blasting the advertisers for what you have no clue about. How about you STFU, get back to work, and learn about TRENDS in marketing with your own damn data before crying about it here. Once you are wise you will realize how FAIL this thread was.
 
THEY ARE PAYING ME FOR A LEAD

The agreement I have with th affiliate network is that if someone signs up, I get $40. If I send fraudulent leads, my contract can be terminated and no money paid for those leads. It says nothing about the quality of the lead or if the lead will back out for the merchant.

QQ? Fuck off back to Warcraft...

I'd suggest you read your agreement a bit more carefully, and you may want to ask your network to send you a copy of the advertiser agreement. Sure, they can cancel your contract...oooooor....they can just not pay you for the fraud/fakes. It probably boils down to your overall performance.

Me personally, I don't share your plight...I make money, and while I'm not getting stratospheric conversions, I'm also not being wiped into the welfare line like you.

So your logic is that if these products are promoted via a flog(not splog ya dumbass) which says the offer works, that is the reason for the shaving? Why is it misleading to say the product works on a flog but somehow isn't misleading being all over the landing page of the offer...or are those testimonials and pitch words on the lp just for shits or what, not following you at all here bud.

Flog...splog...potato pototo...both produce garbage leads/customers but splogs produce a lot more. You seem to be missing a key element in your brilliant rebuttal - if you choose to promote crap offers simply because they have the highest payout, you are no better than the advertiser. Your both out to scam a few bucks then fold up shop so how can you even complain. I mean, it is like putting a fresh steak in front of a hungry dog and expecting the dog not to eat the steak.

Your definition of "quality traffic" is consumers who can be billed the longest without realizing it or do not take the initiative to cancel. Well I don't know of a longest potential billing filter to only get this so called quality, in fact I think it's totally outlandish to propose aquiring this type of lead can be controlled. The merchants are jerry-rigging the situation by shaving.
My definition of quality traffic means actually selling the consumer on the offer and not tricking them into signing up just so you can trick yourself that the conversion rate is 20% while in reality it is more like 2%. If you think the offer is crap then you shouldn't be promoting it...if you elect to promote it despite thinking it is crap, you become the advertisers' whore and they become your pimp...so STFU and work or you might catch a backhand.

If the products actually worked and customers weren't billed immediately when it says trial, get into impossible to cancel billing cycles then it wouldn't matter how it was promoted as long as the people are interested in the least. How can netflix, columbia house, credit reports and other reputable companies run on incent? Because the customers that end up getting the product or service are mostly satisfied. It's not about the "quality" of the leads, it's the fact that most rebill products in the cpa market are total dogshit when it comes to actual value.
Once again, you're tooting the same note on a tired old horn. Who is forcing you to promote crap offers? YOU choose what you promote...so what do you expect? A company that is obviously trying to con people out of money is going to do the same with the CPA network whenever they can. See above for my hungry dog + steak analogy.

It's either make your own products or get raped from time to time and quickly implement a rotator. The shaving discussion always seems to turn out like an unpragmatic bitchfest ending up being completely ineffectual.

The whiners here are the ones who have a bloated sense of entitlement...and getting lured into promoting a trash offer solely because of EPC or payout is a true noob pitfall. Any smart marketer knows that sustainability is >>> than inflated metrics...not just that, but I've seen some of these sites that some people are running and they're definitely opening themselves up to a lot of legal liability.
 
hey meat spin lover...

You clearly have had little success in promoting rebills and are just frustrated with the fluctuating EPCs.. you also don't have anywhere NEAR significant data to be blasting the advertisers for what you have no clue about. How about you STFU, get back to work, and learn about TRENDS in marketing with your own damn data before crying about it here. Once you are wise you will realize how FAIL this thread was.
Well if your speaking to me, the OP:
This thread is FAR from failboat..
A) More people now know about subs and to never run them. Ive got pms with questions already.
B) rebills are scrubbing now when earlier they werent, or def not to this extent.
C) you have no clue on what we have done overall on rebills. Ive got 3 months data across many platforms. Am I gonna post it all here? I dont think so. I shared a few days of this week.

Trends are discussed right here, right now. You have some of the BIGGEST bizz opp pubs viewing this thread and WF as a whole..

Are they doing it NOW tho? Um...no.
Just in the last 1-2 weeks, G is banning as well as FB for biz opps et al.
When that info was posted on WF, did it save some people? shit yeah it did.

ive got my data fuckface- and Im sharing it cause others here have helped me, and Im paying it forward. I didnt ask anyone for a tissue.
This info doesnt apply to you?

GTFO.
 
It's hardly that simple, because if your leads are crap they are not worth the payout. Get over yourself dude...the advertisers are in business to make a profit, not get 100 crap leads from your splogs or whatever other misleading tactics you may be employing to inflate your earnings (and then cry when they get wiped for being the garbage they are). Affiliates that share your attitude ruin it for the rest of us who are actually providing quality traffic and not just trying to milk an offer and make a quick buck.



As soon as we get a new wave of affiliates that don't flood offers with crap leads/customers by using questionable tactics...i.e. making fake news pages. lol It works but what do you expect when you basically lie from the get-go? It will come back to bite you in the wallet...faster than you think.



It is your fucking problem because THEY ARE PAYING YOU FOR A SERVICE and you are failing to provide that service if the leads you provide are dupes/fakes or if your customers turn out to be fraudsters/scammers who have no genuine interest in the product.

You can promote your offers however you see fit and it will have some cost attached to it, but you should not expect to be compensated for mediocrity, so if you are spending your money or wasting your time conning people into completing the offer (and not actually SELLING them on the product/service) you can expect to be scrubbed and wiped out of most of your earnings. QQ moar!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not PAY PER SALE. If they were paying us for sales there would be no problem. But they are only paying per lead or per free trial signup but expecting us to deliver consistent sales. Fuck that. If it's pay per sale they can state that and pay us accordingly rather than fucking us around in the dark.
 
My definition of quality traffic means actually selling the consumer on the offer and not tricking them into signing up just so you can trick yourself that the conversion rate is 20% while in reality it is more like 2%. If you think the offer is crap then you shouldn't be promoting it...if you elect to promote it despite thinking it is crap, you become the advertisers' whore and they become your pimp...so STFU and work or you might catch a backhand.

While you have a skewed perspective, I will agree with you on some more general points. Dog eat dog eat dog. I personally do not have much riding on this whole shitfest so I'm grateful for that.

Your definition of quality traffic is a total fail. The fake blog is not tricking the user to signup, it's an extension of the landing page into a more personal but most likely fake testimonial. Are you saying that offers don't try to trick people into signing up?! If so, please smash your nuts with a spiked bat so we can all ensure you do not procreate.
 
DOLD GIGGA or whatever the fuck .... you clearly don't know shit, so GTFO!!!

Basically you're "theory" would be the equiavlent of me selling 10 cars, but ONLY
getting paid for 5 sales...

you sir are an IDIOT
 
It's not PAY PER SALE. If they were paying us for sales there would be no problem. But they are only paying per lead or per free trial signup but expecting us to deliver consistent sales. Fuck that. If it's pay per sale they can state that and pay us accordingly rather than fucking us around in the dark.

Some offers are pay per sale, others are pay per lead. If it is a pay per lead offer, then you get paid for QUALIFIED leads...at least any advertiser worth his chops does some sort of verification, otherwise you could just use a form-bot to auto fill the form and submit thousands of "leads" per day.

All of the offers I run clearly state whether they are PPS or PPL...if your network is not sharing that info with you then you may need to consider another network.

While you have a skewed perspective, I will agree with you on some more general points. Dog eat dog eat dog. I personally do not have much riding on this whole shitfest so I'm grateful for that.

Your definition of quality traffic is a total fail. The fake blog is not tricking the user to signup, it's an extension of the landing page into a more personal but most likely fake testimonial. Are you saying that offers don't try to trick people into signing up?! If so, please smash your nuts with a spiked bat so we can all ensure you do not procreate.

I LOL'd at your second paragraph. That is an intricate web of contradiction you've weaved there.

So you first say that a fake blog and with fake testimonals is somehow NOT tricking the user into biting the offer...rather it just "prompts" them to visit the offer page. Then you go on to say the offer page does more "tricking".

You see, there is a very fine line between outright lying and clever marketing. Flogs and their respective content usually constitute outright lying.

Clever marketing would be a statement like this:
"You can lose up to 50 lbs or more with this acai berry pill."

Flog content would be:
"Hi I am Matt and I lost 67 lbs using THIS product. If you want to use it too, click this link and get it."

Note the difference on the wording. Both IMPLY the same thing, but the Flog is a blatant lie designed to falsely inflate expectations. The clever marketing snippet shares the "big weight loss potential" implication, but due to the way it is worded, it is NOT a lie.

It's a razor thin margin, especially for more advanced marketers, and the better you can craft words the more you can sell without having to flog your customers.

DOLD GIGGA or whatever the fuck .... you clearly don't know shit, so GTFO!!!

Basically you're "theory" would be the equiavlent of me selling 10 cars, but ONLY
getting paid for 5 sales...

you sir are an IDIOT

Your = possessive
You're = you are

Who's the idiot again? Try again when you pass 2nd grade English, friend. Oh and when you are selling cars, the customer has a legal right to return the car without consequence within 24 hours of the sale. You can bet your ass you're not getting paid if that happens...in fact, you'd probably get canned.
 
Rather not reply to one or another post, because you guys are writing some long ones...

We are paid to get people to sign up for this shit, whether or not our LP's are scamy the whole fucking offer is scammy rebilling for $60+/mo, with no real material.

So how do you get people to sign up for a scam? Well, with a scam yourself (duh).

The problem comes in if you want to be the top payout on a network, you can only go so high. Honestly I think we all know offers like diet and bizzop actually net the advertiser less money than what we sign up because they are pure shit offers, but who's going to run your offer if your payout is $20 less than the top guys. That's why we get our balls scrubbed.

It sucks, I know, but you need to look at it subjectively. $40 for a diet payout (or bizzop) is just not going to work, and be profitable (well to the point the advertiser wants) on the advertisers end - period.

Considering we aren't willing to wait a few months to see who backs out, naturally scrubbing has to happen to keep them in business.

Bitch about it, but your not changing the fact that these offers are set up to scrub.
 
So you first say that a fake blog and with fake testimonals is somehow NOT tricking the user into biting the offer...rather it just "prompts" them to visit the offer page. Then you go on to say the offer page does more "tricking".

Flogs are not providing "crap leads" just because you lie and say you are someone fake. Do you really think that all testimonials on every offer lp are true and some aren't made up? Please, smash your nuts to a fine pulp if so, making absolutely sure you won't pass on your seed. If you were to create a new flog that said "Hi i'm bob i really like netflix, it works you can watch new movies all the time take a free trial now" people would buy and a large portion stay on the service because it has value. No matter where the lead came from, a fake blog/review/article site or not, if they are genuinely interested in trying the product it's down to the business model to retain them at that point since they are going the distance to offer a free trial. Publishers become spoiled from this because they will only promote the best converting high epc trial, and if it's a piece of shit people are going to try to cancel and then if they can't they do a chargeback and along with decline rates the company starts to become unprofitable and starts shaving to compensate. Should the affiliate take the hit on that?

You can't say that a person who wants to take the trial is a quality lead anymore. That is what is being advertised and that is what affiliates are supposedly paid for: A TRIAL. The flog will get them interested in it, they know they are getting the product that is mentioned. They take the trial but get billed before the shit gets there and then they try it, doesn't work so they want to cancel but can't. Quality then is defined only as clients who have the longest billable lifecycles/retention rates, not customers who are interested in a trial of the product(action the affiliate marketer is compensated for).

I'm not against the game but SHEIT.
 
didn't take the time to read every comment but just out the fucking advertisers

Here, I'll start. If there is not a <title></title> on the offers page then those bitches will shave the fuck out of you... Do you get it?

The "easy google profit" guys started shaving the shit out of leads a while back. Those fucks are still the ones behind most of the rebills today.
 
Rather not reply to one or another post, because you guys are writing some long ones...

We are paid to get people to sign up for this shit, whether or not our LP's are scamy the whole fucking offer is scammy rebilling for $60+/mo, with no real material.

So how do you get people to sign up for a scam? Well, with a scam yourself (duh).

The problem comes in if you want to be the top payout on a network, you can only go so high. Honestly I think we all know offers like diet and bizzop actually net the advertiser less money than what we sign up because they are pure shit offers, but who's going to run your offer if your payout is $20 less than the top guys. That's why we get our balls scrubbed.

It sucks, I know, but you need to look at it subjectively. $40 for a diet payout (or bizzop) is just not going to work, and be profitable (well to the point the advertiser wants) on the advertisers end - period.

Considering we aren't willing to wait a few months to see who backs out, naturally scrubbing has to happen to keep them in business.

Bitch about it, but your not changing the fact that these offers are set up to scrub.

word. that's why i would rather promote offers with lower payouts but with a more consistent epc.
 
They are verifying the submitted data for correctness and most likely to prevent duplicates. You can't take one extreme or the other and expect the CPA model to work. The advertiser has to pay out reasonably on conversions while the publisher has to understand that there are such things as fraud, duplicate data and "free trial" whores who affect the performance of a particular offer.

If you are promoting an offer, getting many conversions then not getting paid...the simple solution is to drop the advertiser.
The offer that I'm referring to I can actually see the lead data.
They're not duplicate. They're not fraudulent.
The IPs tie to the given zip. They're not proxies. They wouldn't make it through my system if they did.

Defending merchants is pointless. They're steadily getting more shady, and the networks do fuck all about it and just tell us it's about lead quality.
It's not. It's about their margins.

If someone offers $42 on a free trial, the fact is that they are probably going to scrub everyone at some point. Regardless of quality.
 
^^ Yup.

I'd rather take an offer that pays out $35 instead of $40 and doesn't scrub, giving a relatively consistent conversion rate than a scrubbing offer paying out $40 anyday.
 
The bottom line is you are in a sketchy industry using misleading tactics to get people to buy worthless shit at outrageous prices. Everyone you work with will be just as big an asshole as you are; from google to the guy bottling the acai berries. You can't fuck people over and not expect it to happen to you.

You have two options. Continue promoting bullshit offers and deal with a constant array of assholes, or start offering real value to people by selling real products to people who actually want them. This is a lot of work and also the reason most people fail. If you do this then only 1/2 the people you deal with will be total assholes.
 
The bottom line is you are in a sketchy industry using misleading tactics to get people to buy worthless shit at outrageous prices. Everyone you work with will be just as big an asshole as you are; from google to the guy bottling the acai berries. You can't fuck people over and not expect it to happen to you.

You have two options. Continue promoting bullshit offers and deal with a constant array of assholes, or start offering real value to people by selling real products to people who actually want them. This is a lot of work and also the reason most people fail. If you do this then only 1/2 the people you deal with will be total assholes.
Fuck you this isn't a rebill problem. The offer I've been describing is not even sketchy. Depending on what people bring up scrubbing, they will get the following responses
  1. Rebills are sketchy, of course you're getting scrubbed
  2. It's an e-mail/zip submit, what did you expect?
  3. It's a lead based campaign. They've always been known for scrubbing like crazy
  4. True.com has always been thieving bastards who could serve justice by severing several arteries and slowly bleeding out. What did you expect?
Well here's a hint: THE NETWORKS BARELY HAVE ANYTHING ASIDE FROM THOSE.
There can't be an excuse for everything.
 
i'm getting very disappointing results this weekend on health related rebills. it's a joke compared to last week.

conversion rates have been extremely volatile from one day to the next over here as well. it's frustrating but overall i'm trying not to let it get to me as long as things pan out in the long term.

Care to give up the health related niche your in?
 
There is a couple things I notice in this thread:

A. Everyone talks about these programs like a black box with an on/off scrub switch. These programs are very complicated businesses with tons of moving parts to break or become inefficient. For example on the backend there's is about 10-20 things with merchant accounts alone that could influence conversions. Think about it like this do you think and advertiser if they were going to shave you would change conversions as drastic as the numbers you guys are sharing? Of course not because they know they'd lose the business. Something broke. Maybe their US merchant accounts blew up and they had to run through the backup int'l accounts and a lot more banks are blocking them. Or maybe their good bank shut them down for some reason and now they're using their backup which a lot of banks won't let the transactions go through. If someone is getting a bunch of crap traffic with low rebills in order to combat this they might turn on some Fraud prevention settings they were running without.Things like gift card bin blocking, avs matching, previous people who have chargedback based blocking, etc.

B. The products are scams. I'm not sure why people think this but a lot of these products are very good with strong businesses behind them. The bigger advertisers in this space have 100's of employees, warehouses, etc.

I think there is a lack of knowledge as to what is involved with the offers we're promoting. Most of the really big affiliates I know have done some research into the companies and products they're promoting. They understand that a lot of these products and companies are very legitimate sell a good product people want and provide good service. It's funny, I talk with affiliates that want to become advertisers almost everyday. And honestly 99% of them have no idea how complicated it is and how involved it is to setup one of these businesses. It's easy right just buy some product, put up a website and presto. Same thing with people that want to run networks. Easy right you just get some advertisers, affiliates and then some software and it's simple. These statements couldn't be further from the truth.

I invite everyone to do their homework into the advertiser they're promoting and really understand the companies they're working with. This goes back to my idea of trying to get as much information into affiliates hands as possible.

P.S. I'm not saying that they're not scrubbing. As that's another variable as well, just in the cases and numbers everyone is talking about it's not a likely one.