Assange Is Fucked

[lukep]

Damn if these cables aren't entertaining. I got out some popcorn and went to town on them just now...

There are lots of problems it causes though for national security... Nothing that kills our soldiers but wars aren't usually won with soldiers... A great example of one of these is the Yemen entry on that wikipedia page.

This kind of interference makes it harder/impossible for terror to be faught with the tools we have always relied on before now. (Mostly misinformation.)

So the question becomes: Should the US sit by and allow wikileaks to stop it from using the TOOLS it has used to win wars with?

I think the answer is no, the US doesn't have to allow this for the sake of idealism. I see the attraction to that idealism but hey, this is the real world here.

...Whether or not the US can stop this is another issue altogether. If it gains momentum it might not be able to.

 

[Rexibit]

So the question becomes: Should the US sit by and allow wikileaks to stop it from using the TOOLS it has used to win wars with?

Yes, misinformation wins wars, but terrorists aren't nations warring us, they are individuals.

There is a saying, "A person is smart, but people are stupid." It's much easier to trick a nation you're warring to believe something, because they are much easier to analyze and counter. It's much harder to trick someone who's already embedded themselves into your country, figured you out by researching you by their own means, and with motives you don't fully understand.

Wikileaks is there to inform a country's people of the happenings of the government. It's often old information, often useless to terrorists who can easily carry on their missions without it by just using many of the other resources provided in RL and online.

I think the answer is no, the US doesn't have to allow this for the sake of idealism. I see the attraction to that idealism but hey, this is the real world here.

A free press isn't an idealism, it's a right that the United States has sent men to fight and die for. It was founded on that right. The minute you censure journalism, you infringe on that right and become hypocritical.

Assange may not be an American citizen, but I highly doubt the US government censuring Wikileaks and making it outlawed will bode well for what America stands for.

 

[nickster]

Damn right. Many brave men have died in countless wars to protect our rights not to have some sweaty $10 an hour rent-a-cop sticking his hand down our shorts and fondle our junk. Liberty and freedom are dead and buried, welcome 1984! Time for a fuckin revolution

 

[Ar Scion]

What a stupid comment.

My point is that if 1% of the whole of the US have direct access to this information do you think that it is not already in the hands of the enemy? There is no way that there is not one foreign spy or agent within that 3 million people.

As for my bank account it is no ones business but me as it effects no ones life but mine. However the duplicitous way the governments in the world act is EVERYBODY'S business.

Do you not find it quite strange that when anyone attacks the policies of the US government you get attacked by people saying that you are anti-american and a US hater, but it is not the US, nor the people of the US that are being attacked but it is the policies of the money grabbing power brokers that also cheat and lie to the US people that are being attacked. Try the same in the UK or other nations who firmly believe that their government are a bunch of lying bastards who need to be held accountable. The difference is that we have a true free press who report on international issues of importance, not just dumbed down and censored press like the US currently has. And if anyone tries to criticize from the inside they get called "commies", un-american and libtards.

Wake up guys and start to question everything. No one has the right to oppress you and tell you what you should or shouldn't think. Open your window and stick your head out, it is a big world out there.

1% of Americans have access to classified information, therefore the enemy has access to it?

Proof, bro. Show some.

I bet more than 1% of Americans have access to your medical records. Therefore the enemy has access to it, therefore it should be made public.

Right, retard?

 

[nickster]

1% of Americans have access to classified information, therefore the enemy has access to it?

Proof, bro. Show some.

I bet more than 1% of Americans have access to your medical records. Therefore the enemy has access to it, therefore it should be made public.

Right, retard?

You sir are a moron. You can't even make a coherent point. First my bank account and now my medical records??!?!? What the hell are you on?

 

[Ar Scion]

You sir are a moron. You can't even make a coherent point. First my bank account and now my medical records??!?!? What the hell are you on?

How's this for a coherent point:

1% of Americans having access to secure information doesn't mean "the enemy" has access to the secure information.

Libtards....

 

[zimok]

How's this for a coherent point:

1% of Americans having access to secure information doesn't mean "the enemy" has access to the secure information.

Libtards....

There's enough idiots and defectors in 3 million people to wrap the low end of the bell curve around the planet.

 

[nickster]

There's enough idiots and defectors in 3 million people to wrap the low end of the bell curve around the planet.

Fact and point

 

[advive]

As someone already said, difference between someone's personal details and countries international dealings is that my shit affects only me so no reason for any other cunt to know what I do but what US government does directly affects every one of it's citizens and a lot of other people all around the world so you can't compare those two things...

 

[Ar Scion]

There's enough idiots and defectors in 3 million people to wrap the low end of the bell curve around the planet.

If you and that other fucktard was right, we would have been in much worse shape than we are in right now, even without WikiLeaks.

Your blanket statement makes it sound like any idiot can become one of the 3 million, and any idiot in the 3 million can access said information, collect and distribute it with minimal effort and virtually no penalty.

The problem is a bell curve distribution is not applicable because the pool of subjects don't come from the general public, but from a select group of people with specific traits needed to get a job within the 3 million. When you tack on other restrictions such as background checks, penalties for misconduct, and other psychological factors that influence the bell curve, the 3 million threat turns out to be bullshit.

Stop trying to oversimplify the threat assessment here.

 

[hellblazer]

the press has always been allowed to publish illegally obtained documents...

WTF are you talking about? The media isn't allowed to be an accessory to a crime. They're not allowed to publish ANYTHING they want. That's why we have, you know, CONFIDENTIAL documents.

But let me see if I get your retarded liberal apologist thinking straight: some fag inside our government commits treason and steals confidential documents, which is a crime. Another libfag takes those documents, KNOWING they were obtained illegally, but because he's part of the "press", he's well within his legal rights to publish those sensitive documents to the entire world.

Your pathetic excuse of a rationalization for this turd is weak and unimpressive.

Bullshit. No one has been killed. No one has been attacked. We both know the government would be enthusiastically shouting it from the rooftops this were true.

Your standard of truth here is that the government isn't "shouting it from the rooftops", ergo it isn't true. Dude, Assange himself ADMITTED his actions in Africa led to hundreds of people dying. Go look it up, you're not worth me getting the link for you. And his latest "leaks" revealed the identities of HUNDREDS of Afghani informants. They'll all be dead within months, if not weeks. If we had a press that wasn't filled with people of your ilk, we'd probably already know exactly how many of them have already been killed.

And his latest "leak"? You think when the U.S. government deems certain sites important to "national security", they say it because it sounds pretty? You'd think even the most brainwashed of communist libtards might get the hint of a thought that perhaps we shouldn't be broadcasting this information to America's enemies. But then again, liberalism is a mental disorder, as you so aptly demonstrate. Up is down, wrong is right, America is the enemy, criminals are heroes, and treason is patriotism.

Our foreign policy puts lives at risk. The "secrets" we have kill people every single day. People die for dishonest leaders, dishonest causes, and sometimes just for being in the wrong place.

i.e. we kill people, what's wrong with Assange killing people?

Good God, do you liberal fags ever get off the "It's all America's fault" script? It's like beating the carcass of a horse that's been dead for years, been picked clean by vultures and rats, with nothing left but the emaciated skeleton, and STILL that's no deterrent.

...of all people, I thought you would be wetting yourself about the leaks related to Iran.

What this idiot did is make sure nobody trusts us anymore. No embassy will trust us. No informants in Afghanistan will trust us. He isolated America and alienated her. He's not a whistleblower. He's a liberal criminal, could be a rapist, and now his cohorts are committing CRIMES against credit card companies and have already committed crimes against Sarah Palin for speaking out against him.

I was biding my time on this turd, but as always, these cockroaches eventually reveal their true colors. He weakened America, he's praised by liberal idiots like you and half the morons here, he and his friends unequivocally committed crimes, and now he's being lionized by the Communist press. That should tell everyone everything they need to know about this coward.

P.S. Oh yeah, and can all the butthurt libtards save the "I'm not a liberal, I'm a libertarian" bullshit for someone who both cares and believes it? Thanks!

 

[nickster]

That is the biggest load of brainwashed shit that I have ever read. I can't even be bothered to try to answer any of your points because quite frankly re-reading them would reduce my IQ by close to 100 points.

Libtards, fags, commies - the words of hillbilly sheep who don't have any ideas other than those that were fed to you by Fox News and Bill O'Reilly

 

[Ar Scion]

That is the biggest load of brainwashed shit that I have ever read. I can't even be bothered to try to answer any of your points because quite frankly re-reading them would reduce my IQ by close to 100 points.

Libtards, fags, commies - the words of hillbilly sheep who don't have any ideas other than those that were fed to you by Fox News and Bill O'Reilly

Good.

Because you don't have an argument here. All you've done is bitch and whine and make claims not supported by reality.

 

[hellblazer]

That is the biggest load of brainwashed shit that I have ever read. I can't even be bothered to try to answer any of your points because quite frankly re-reading them would reduce my IQ by close to 100 points.

Libtards, fags, commies - the words of hillbilly sheep who don't have any ideas other than those that were fed to you by Fox News and Bill O'Reilly

Remember, FOX News is evil and bad. Obama and Democrats are good. And Assange is a patriot. Now say it again.

LOL and the day you could show me a video of Bill O'reilly saying the words "libtard", "fag", or "commie" is the day you'd actually have a brain, not to mention that would be awesome to see. But you don't even watch O'Reilly's show, you don't watch FOX, you watch Jon Stewart and robotically repeat whatever he says. Which is why retards like you don't even realize how stupid you look.

 

[Wicked Ice]

+1. he is a fucktard.

That is the biggest load of brainwashed shit that I have ever read. I can't even be bothered to try to answer any of your points because quite frankly re-reading them would reduce my IQ by close to 100 points.

Libtards, fags, commies - the words of hillbilly sheep who don't have any ideas other than those that were fed to you by Fox News and Bill O'Reilly

 

[xmcp123]

WTF are you talking about? The media isn't allowed to be an accessory to a crime. They're not allowed to publish ANYTHING they want. That's why we have, you know, CONFIDENTIAL documents.

Confidential means the government isn't supposed to hand them out. Our media constantly uses illegally obtained information. Internal companies memos, the leak ACTA treaty, the Pentagon Papers, the list literally goes on and on forever.
But more than that, your point of view has already gone to the Supreme Court over the Pentagon papers, and LOST in a lawsuit given to them by the new york times. Freedom of press was upheld, even in the case of illegal/confidential documents. The leaker (the person who got the documents) can go to jail, not the person/news agency that recieved and published them.
A couple choice quotes:

Justice Hugo Black wrote an opinion that elaborated on his view of the absolute superiority of the First Amendment. He was against any interference with freedom of expression and largely found the content and source of the documents to be immaterial. Justice William O. Douglas largely concurred with Black, arguing that the need for a free press as a check on government prevents any governmental restraint on the press

Yet again hellblazer, you come up a bit short.

But let me see if I get your retarded liberal apologist thinking straight: some fag inside our government commits treason and steals confidential documents, which is a crime.

Yes, this part is a crime.

Another libfag

You realize he also released the "Climategate" emails, right?

takes those documents, KNOWING they were obtained illegally, but because he's part of the "press", he's well within his legal rights to publish those sensitive documents to the entire world.

Yes. That's why it's called the freedom of the press(the Supreme Court agreed in the Pentagon Papers case). They are allowed to publish what they will. It's how we keep "big government" in check, and it's essential to a free country.

Your pathetic excuse of a rationalization for this turd is weak and unimpressive.

I don't have to rationalize anything. I believe in the free press, rather than the soviet-style authoritarianism you seem to prefer. That's really all there is to it.

Your standard of truth here is that the government isn't "shouting it from the rooftops", ergo it isn't true.Dude, Assange himself ADMITTED his actions in Africa led to hundreds of people dying.

I'm talking about America-oriented leaks and you know it. Al-Qaeda, sources, etc.
But beyond that - Assange exposed corruption, and corrupt people killed others.That is hardly his fault. Should he have let corruption live on? The Kenyan government was beating and killing people already. The "end result" you complain about wasn't even different. The whole fucking problem was extra-judicial killings by the Government. The fact that it continued to happen AFTER the document is no more his fault than the killings that happened BEFORE.

And his latest "leaks" revealed the identities of HUNDREDS of Afghani informants

.
Not a single death, not a single attack. It's odd how little you care about the deaths that actually happened, rather than the ones that never did. Those same documents showed MASSIVE civilian casualties. But let me guess, you don't care?

If we had a press that wasn't filled with people of your ilk, we'd probably already know exactly how many of them have already been killed.

None. Seriously. The Pentagon told the Washington Post "We have yet to see any harm come to anyone in Afghanistan that we can directly tie to exposure in the WikiLeaks documents"

And his latest "leak"? You think when the U.S. government deems certain sites important to "national security", they say it because it sounds pretty?

Yes. I think they know it will get people like you riled up.

You'd think even the most brainwashed of communist libtards might get the hint of a thought that perhaps we shouldn't be broadcasting this information to America's enemies.

There have been very few things our "enemies" could potentially gain from. There's a couple that are debatable, but by and large it's unusable.
It's pure propaganda by embarrassed politicians.

But then again, liberalism is a mental disorder, as you so aptly demonstrate.

I tend a bit more Libertarian than Liberal nowadays. "Small government", you know the drill.

Up is down, wrong is right, America is the enemy, criminals are heroes, and treason is patriotism.

Try "Freedom of Press is absolute" and you're getting a bit closer to my position. I believe that our rights are "good" and that those who stand in the way of our rights are "bad".

Good God, do you liberal fags ever get off the "It's all America's fault" script?

Doesn't matter whose fault it is. It's the first fucking amendment, and it doesn't have all these "terms of service" you seem to think are there. Your position is disagreed with not only by the text, but by the Supreme Court last time a similar case got there.
You're just too pig-headed to realize that even people you disagree with, hate, or object to morally get rights.

blah blah blah.

No need to continue. You're just not well informed enough to have this discussion. Fascist. :action-smiley-052:

Edit: Before you bring it up, yes the Supreme Court has already ruled on foreigners getting free speech, and YES they do get it. The court case is Bridges v. Wixom

 

[Ar Scion]

If somebody dies, does that mean WikiLeaks isn't justified anymore?

 

[hellblazer]

lulz ^^^^ No, Ar Scion, they'll just say they were gonna die anyways or "how come you don't care about the civilians".

But to xmcp and the other useful idiots, you don't understand what you're saying. If Assange is a patriot, then the traitor who committed treason and enabled him is a patriot. Not to mention Assange is NOT the media. He's an accessory to the crime who has a pitiful website. That's it.

Is that really the position you fools want to stand behind?

 

[advive]

LOL this is awesome, the people who support free press are called communists by those who oppose it. I love this place

 

[xmcp123]

No response to all the factual inaccuracies you had? And yet you're still at it?
Don't worry, we'll continue along like that never happened.

You don't understand what you're saying. If Assange is a patriot, then the traitor who committed treason and enabled him is a patriot. Not to mention Assange is NOT the media. He's an accessory to the crime who has a website. That's it.

Assange is not a Patriot. He's not even American. But he doesn't need to be to enjoy the Freedom of Press.
The question is "Was what he was doing covered by the free press", and the answer is yes. People other than "Patriots" get that right. And as previously shown, foreigners count.

I don't have strong feelings either way about Manning. He broke the law, and it's unreasonable to expect a government to give permanent amnesty to the leakers themselves. Wikileaks however - received it. Recieving/publishing is legal in the United States(as I also showed earlier), even if they were confidential.

If you're going to argue against the idea that the Free Press should be absolute, go for the gold. But that's the way it was written by the framers, that's the way interpreted by the Supreme Court, and that's the way it is.

Know why the government is going after the newspapers citing the leaks? Because they know that ship has sailed. It's legal here. Wikileaks is online and hence new and scary, so they're giving it a new attempt. But in every important way, it's the same old battle and the same old censorship.