Before the big bang?

Eldarion

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeZ410gSqLo]YouTube - Space Fan News #13: Before the Big Bang?[/ame]

Well it's believe that eventually the entire universe will experience heat death however many trillions of years from now. Black holes absorb everything, and the only heat at all comes from black holes. Which might eventually all eat each other until all the stuff is in one place and then who knows maybe another kaboom. There's also the big rip theory that says the universe expansion may continue to get faster to the point where molecules will no longer be able to stay together. Anyway I dun fully understand any of this stuff but still find it interesting to hear about.
 


Eh... there was nothing before the big bang. It's like asking, "what's south of the South Pole"? It's not a logical question.
 
Eh... there was nothing before the big bang. It's like asking, "what's south of the South Pole"? It's not a logical question.

Eh...Says you. Of course there was something before the big bang and the "what's south of the South Pole" argument doesn't apply. I personally believe that the big crunch theory sounds plausible.
 
the big bang theory only describes how the universe itself got here, it does not rule out any other forms of existence before the big bang.
 
Eh... there was nothing before the big bang. It's like asking, "what's south of the South Pole"? It's not a logical question.

OMG that makes perfect sense. Whew, glad I don't have to think about that anymore.
 
Congrats, you can quote Stephen Hawkings

He said that? My logic professor would say it all the time. I thought it was a common term. Credit to Hawkings.

More importantly, how about a big LOL for nickster who thinks he's smarter than Hawkings.
 
The big bang only accounts for one universe. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than one.

Personally, I think that our universe is like a game of SIMS. God bought a game, we're his game, and he hasn't decided to restart it yet.
 
What's fucked up is that if there really is a god, he's watching the people of Japan suffer with complete indifference.

Pretty fucked up.
 
Ima leave a long ass quote here from Mark Twain:

"For as much as a year Satan continued these visits, but at last he came less often, and then for a long time he did not come at all. This always made me lonely and melancholy. I felt that he was losing interest in our tiny world and might at any time abandon his visits entirely. When one day he finally came to me I was overjoyed, but only for a little while. He had come to say good-by, he told me, and for the last time. He had investigations and undertakings in other corners of the universe, he said, that would keep him busy for a longer period than I could wait for his return.

“And you are going away, and will not come back any more?”

“Yes,” he said. “We have comraded long together, and it has been pleasant – pleasant for both; but I must go now, and we shall not see each other any more.”

“In this life, Satan, but in another? We shall meet in another, surely?”

Then, all tranquilly and soberly, he made the strange answer, “There is no other.”

A subtle influence blew upon my spirit from his, bringing with it a vague, dim, but blessed and hopeful feeling that the incredible words might be true – even must be true.

“Have you never suspected this, Theodor?”

“No. How could I? But if it can only be true -”

“It is true.”

A gust of thankfulness rose in my breast, but a doubt checked it before it could issue in words, and I said, “But – but – we have seen that future life – seen it in its actuality, and so -”

“It was a vision – it had no existence.”

I could hardly breathe for the great hope that was struggling in me. “A vision? – a vi -”

“Life itself is only a vision, a dream.”

It was electrical. By God! I had had that very thought a thousand times in my musings!

“Nothing exists; all is a dream. God – man – the world – the sun, the moon, the wilderness of stars – a dream, all a dream; they have no existence. Nothing exists save empty space – and you!”

“I!”

“And you are not you – you have no body, no blood, no bones, you are but a thought. I myself have no existence; I am but a dream – your dream, creature of your imagination. In a moment you will have realized this, then you will banish me from your visions and I shall dissolve into the nothingness out of which you made me . . .

“I am perishing already – I am failing – I am passing away. In a little while you will be alone in shoreless space, to wander its limitless solitudes without friend or comrade forever – for you will remain a thought, the only existent thought, and by your nature inextinguishable, indestructible. But I, your poor servant, have revealed you to yourself and set you free. Dream other dreams, and better!

“Strange! that you should not have suspected years ago – centuries, ages, eons, ago! – for you have existed, companionless, through all the eternities.

Strange, indeed, that you should not have suspected that your universe and its contents were only dreams, visions, fiction! Strange, because they are so frankly and hysterically insane – like all dreams: a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice and invented hell – mouths mercy and invented hell – mouths Golden Rules, and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man’s acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him! . . .

“You perceive, now, that these things are all impossible except in a dream. You perceive that they are pure and puerile insanities, the silly creations of an imagination that is not conscious of its freaks – in a word, that they are a dream, and you the maker of it. The dream-marks are all present; you should have recognized them earlier.

“It is true, that which I have revealed to you; there is no God, no universe, no human race, no earthly life, no heaven, no hell. It is all a dream – a grotesque and foolish dream. Nothing exists but you. And you are but a thought – a vagrant thought, a useless thought, a homeless thought, wandering forlorn among the empty eternities!”

He vanished, and left me appalled; for I knew, and realized, that all he had said was true."
 
Just out of curiousity, where did you come across that, djshorty89? I remember it from one of the Jed McKenna books.

I think Twain hit the nail on the head. Time (and thus "before") only exists within the illusory dualistic imagined universe. What actually is doesn't have a before or after. Life is but a dream...
 
Eh... there was nothing before the big bang. It's like asking, "what's south of the South Pole"? It's not a logical question.
A penguin jumping.


Also as fast as the big bang theory came into existence from evidence gathered by hubble and the findings of red phase shift it's falling just as quickly the more the hubble finds uniformity among the light barrier (the hunt for the direction of the blast by finding concentrations of older galaxies and radiation vs sparsity on the opposite side). Imagine being a piece of shrapnel in the midst of a grenade blast and looking out as far as you can and trying to find what direction the blast originated from. The theory that the big bang happened within 18.9b years ago is already toast considering it was based on the likelihood that matter can't travel faster than light. If that was true then we would be able to see the big bang actually happening within our lightverse and the speed at which light travels. Our lightverse is 18.9b light years; thats where the number came from. Since we can't see it, then matter at one point did travel faster than light, or there was no singularity. Accepting the former a lot of astronomers are completely switching to the theory of inflation, others are accepting a common ground of the two theories, the rest aren't holding their breathes. Likewise, if you have any understanding of the big bang theory you'll know it's not the theory of the beginning of existence. It's defined as the theory of what happened immediately after the beginning of existence itself, not before existence, not existence, but after and beyond. So to say its obvious that there was nothing before the big bang is going against its own definition. Obviously there was something whether it was a singularity or some antimatter colliding. Something was there, and probably even something that created that. So on and so forth.
Sorry had to clear that up.
 
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A penguin jumping.


Also as fast as the big bang theory came into existence from evidence gathered by hubble and the findings of red phase shift it's falling just as quickly the more the hubble finds uniformity among the light barrier (the hunt for the direction of the blast by finding concentrations of older galaxies and radiation vs sparsity on the opposite side). Imagine being a piece of shrapnel in the midst of a grenade blast and looking out as far as you can and trying to find what direction the blast originated from. The theory that the big bang happened within 18.9b years ago is already toast considering it was based on the likelihood that matter can't travel faster than light. If that was true then we would be able to see the big bang actually happening within our lightverse and the speed at which light travels. Our lightverse is 18.9b light years; thats where the number came from. Since we can't see it, then matter at one point did travel faster than light, or there was no singularity. Accepting the former a lot of astronomers are completely switching to the theory of inflation, others are accepting a common ground of the two theories, the rest aren't holding their breathes. Likewise, if you have any understanding of the big bang theory you'll know it's not the theory of the beginning of existence. It's defined as the theory of what happened immediately after the beginning of existence itself, not before existence, not existence, but after and beyond. So to say its obvious that there was nothing before the big bang is going against its own definition. Obviously there was something whether it was a singularity or some antimatter colliding. Something was there, and probably even something that created that. So on and so forth.
Sorry had to clear that up.


Not doubting you, but what are your sources?
 
A penguin jumping.


Also as fast as the big bang theory came into existence from evidence gathered by hubble and the findings of red phase shift it's falling just as quickly the more the hubble finds uniformity among the light barrier (the hunt for the direction of the blast by finding concentrations of older galaxies and radiation vs sparsity on the opposite side). Imagine being a piece of shrapnel in the midst of a grenade blast and looking out as far as you can and trying to find what direction the blast originated from. The theory that the big bang happened within 18.9b years ago is already toast considering it was based on the likelihood that matter can't travel faster than light. If that was true then we would be able to see the big bang actually happening within our lightverse and the speed at which light travels. Our lightverse is 18.9b light years; thats where the number came from. Since we can't see it, then matter at one point did travel faster than light, or there was no singularity. Accepting the former a lot of astronomers are completely switching to the theory of inflation, others are accepting a common ground of the two theories, the rest aren't holding their breathes. Likewise, if you have any understanding of the big bang theory you'll know it's not the theory of the beginning of existence. It's defined as the theory of what happened immediately after the beginning of existence itself, not before existence, not existence, but after and beyond. So to say its obvious that there was nothing before the big bang is going against its own definition. Obviously there was something whether it was a singularity or some antimatter colliding. Something was there, and probably even something that created that. So on and so forth.
Sorry had to clear that up.

"The world record for inflation was in Germany after the First World War. Prices rose by a factor of ten million in a period of 18 months. But that was nothing compared to inflation in the early universe. The universe expanded by a factor of million trillion trillion in a tiny fraction of a second. Unlike inflation in prices, inflation in the early universe was a very good thing. It produced a very large and uniform universe, just as we observe. However, it would not be completely uniform. In the sum over histories, histories that are very slightly irregular will have almost as high probabilities as the completely uniform and regular history. The theory therefore predicts that the early universe is likely to be slightly non-uniform. These irregularities would produce small variations in the intensity of the microwave background from different directions. The microwave background has been observed by the Map satellite, and was found to have exactly the kind of variations predicted. So we know we are on the right lines."


This is from Hawkings' website: Stephen W. Hawking - The Origin of the Universe
 
Not doubting you, but what are your sources?
There was a really cool article about it on nasa's site last march it was called the hunt for the big bang. They talked about the hubble being used to scan the light barrier for radiation irregularities and the differences between what the telescope is finding now vs back in the 80's. I'll find it for you because everyone should read it.

Also the hot ass chick from The Universe did some explaining on it
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q7DbUCl6QU]YouTube - Dr, Amy Mainzer about the cosmic microwave background radiation[/ame]
FUCK SHE'S HOT!
 
There was a really cool article about it on nasa's site last march it was called the hunt for the big bang. They talked about the hubble being used to scan the light barrier for radiation irregularities and the differences between what the telescope is finding now vs back in the 80's. I'll find it for you because everyone should read it.

Also the hot ass chick from The Universe did some explaining on it
YouTube - Dr, Amy Mainzer about the cosmic microwave background radiation
FUCK SHE'S HOT!

I actually read something, or heard something about it. The previous quote by Hawkings that I posted actually addresses it a bit.
 
If you love Hawkings so much why don't you marry him.




...He could wheel you across the threshold.