Better find a new way to hide your money...

[eliquid]

The problem with this is that, is it really worth it to travel to some foreign country once a month just to bring back $9,999? Most people making a good amount of money i.e. people interested in this stuff, can't live on $9,999 a month.

I think the question is, is it worth the 30-40% ( plus any state taxes you may have ) I save on taxes to travel somewhere I like ( for me that would be South America/Caribbean ) and take a mini vacation for a few days, if not a week and maybe write it all off as a business trip to boot possibly every month?

I don't know anyone that has their shit in order that can't live off essentially 10k ( personal, not biz expenses ) cash a month. Notice I also said having your house paid off earlier in the thread. If your someone that lives in a million dollar home and still has a mortgage on it, then my post above doesn't apply to you as I said "house paid for".

If your talking someone that blows their money on 3 extremely high mortgages, has a couple lambos they still paying on and overall is just way too damn flashy, and doesnt give 2 fucks about where their money goes, then I might see your point.. but for someone that makes a ton of money and has a moderate lifestyle ( 1 nice fucking house, several nice higher end cars, some boats, and even kids, eats out every day ) then 10k cash a month is for sure doable, especially when your saving 30-40% on taxes to boot plus any state taxes.

I actually have 2 nice homes, several acres of land, 3 new new cars, 2 boats, 3 kids, go on vacations almost every month, eat out every day and have a maid and I get by on essentially 6-6.5k a month, 10k tops if I'm doing extra things in that month though.

It's not just talk, they absolutely will. Technically you are supposed to pay taxes for another 10 years after you give up your US citizenship. If you don't they WILL get you once you come back and step foot in the US. Maybe not the 1st time, but they will grab you right at the airport.

I say talk because before the Obama Admin, no one was actively hunting these people down daily as they came in and out of the US and making sure you got caught. Obama has stepped this up quite a bit lately though and things are being looked into more though. Look how long it finally took them to catch up to the USB scam going on in the swiss accounts.

I'm not sure this is necessarily true. I know a lot of "rich" people who have mortgages on their primary residence. A mortgage is cheap money and even a novice investor can borrow money at 5-6% via a mortgage and get a 10%+ return. A good investor should be able to average 20% or more. Nothing wrong with borrowing at 5-6% in order to make 10-20%.

If your in real estate investing, then that's perfectly fine and doable. Judging from prior discussions on this board there are a few people here that are into real estate, but a lot more that are not. I would not advise anyone on this board who is not familiar with real estate to take out a mortgage at 5-6% ( which I know was impossible for many to get up until recently ) and then try to turn that into 10-20% returns. I know personally some people on this board who had cash to outright buy a home, but couldn't get a mortgage a year ago at all even close to 5-6% for their first home.

It's really the "low 7 figure" people who are mostly interested in this stuff. Because to them taxes reduce their spendable income significantly. At the next level up you're making so much money that most people I know just don't care about the taxes enough to worry about offshore stuff, etc., because they still have so much left over after taxes that it just doesn't matter. Why deal with the hassles and stress if you make more money than you could possibly spend...

Not always true. When your the next level up from low 7 figures, their are ways to stay in the US and heavily reduce your tax burden. You think Buffet, Gates, or any of the other American Billionaires are paying the highest tax bracket on their income each year? Ha

 

[eliquid]

Also, have any of you looked into asset protection for personal or business?

Im sure many of you have setup up companies to help protect your personal assets from your business ventures, but you should really talk to an asset protection lawyer specifically, or even an estate planning attorney to find out what really goes on.

Think of it this way.. Say your riding in your new m5 or boat and have an accident, or some girl scout slips on your million dollar homes porch and they sue you for damages. Yeah, your home owners and auto/boat insurance will cover the cost up to a specific limit, after that your fair game if the judgment is over that limit. What if your held personally liable for something your business did and the attorney proved you pierced the corp veil and they come after your assets then, including your liquid assets.

How many of you have an extra umbrella insurance policy? Is your home in a family trust ( if you have a family )? Is your life insurance policy in a trust? If you answered no to any of these, then your assets can be taken away from you in some form if you lose a judgment ( hopefully your never in that position though ).

Going offshore can protect your liquid assets legally ( depending on country, situation, etc ) so that IF something did happen, your protected by several degrees.

Id rather have several layers of protection for my assets then just hoping nothing happens, but to each their own.

 

[dsiomtw]

The above are all good points, but you don't need to go offshore to do it. I personally have a very large umbrella policy that would cover any conceivable judgement against me assuming I or my family wasn't criminally negligent. Umbrella policies are relatively inexpensive, even for 5-10 million.

I think the question is, is it worth the 30-40% ( plus any state taxes you may have ) I save on taxes to travel somewhere I like ( for me that would be South America/Caribbean ) and take a mini vacation for a few days, if not a week and maybe write it all off as a business trip to boot possibly every month?

I guess this is somewhat of a personal thing. Personally I wouldn't want to have to travel to another country every month, even if it was a forced "vacation".

I don't know anyone that has their shit in order that can't live off essentially 10k ( personal, not biz expenses ) cash a month. Notice I also said having your house paid off earlier in the thread. If your someone that lives in a million dollar home and still has a mortgage on it, then my post above doesn't apply to you as I said "house paid for".

I actually have 2 nice homes, several acres of land, 3 new new cars, 2 boats, 3 kids, go on vacations almost every month, eat out every day and have a maid and I get by on essentially 6-6.5k a month, 10k tops if I'm doing extra things in that month though.

I think this depends on many factors, and is a pretty broad generatlization. The property taxes alone on my 2 homes are almost 10k a month. So like I said before, I personally couldn't live on 10k a month, and most of my friends in similar situations couldn't either.

Not always true. When your the next level up from low 7 figures, their are ways to stay in the US and heavily reduce your tax burden. You think Buffet, Gates, or any of the other American Billionaires are paying the highest tax bracket on their income each year? Ha

It is my understanding that Buffet and Gates do pay quite a bit of taxes. Of course most of their income is via dividends, investments, etc. vs. earned income taxed at the highest rate so that does make a difference.

But just out of curiosity, what do you think these and other extremely rich people do to pay "very little" taxes while at the same time maintaining a high level of spendable income?

 

[Medici]

Regarding moving amounts over 10k into the US. Notice how a lot of offshore banking locations also have diamond shops? If you were so inclined, you could buy diamonds offshore, bring them to the states, and sell them to a dealer.

it sounds hollywood and a like a lot of work but the benefits could outweigh negatives mentioned in this thread.

 

[eliquid]

The above are all good points, but you don't need to go offshore to do it.

Yeah, its gonna be diff things for diff people. You also don't need to push rebills to make money in affiliate marketing, but some people like it. I feel its better to give people all kinds of info/options and let them make up their own mind.

I personally have a very large umbrella policy that would cover any conceivable judgement against me assuming I or my family wasn't criminally negligent. Umbrella policies are relatively inexpensive, even for 5-10 million.

I have always told other affiliates to make sure they get 1 of these, congrats to you for having one.. you wouldn't believe the amount of people that don't have one, but should have one. I think I paid about 1.2k for a 5 million dollar policy myself.

I guess this is somewhat of a personal thing. Personally I wouldn't want to have to travel to another country every month, even if it was a forced "vacation".

Yeah, again personal choices here. Some people like BMW's, some people like Mercedes. I like to travel and such myself and when calculated up visiting that country every month saves me about 35k a month.

I think this depends on many factors, and is a pretty broad generatlization. The property taxes alone on my 2 homes are almost 10k a month. So like I said before, I personally couldn't live on 10k a month, and most of my friends in similar situations couldn't either.

I have no clue where you live or your situation, but I pay my property taxes 1 time a year and with my home, rental home, and all the land I own I pay roughly 10k a year total. I guess it depends on the tax rate in your county/city/state when it comes to that. I live in a private gated community on a golf course with a lake in Kentucky near a major city.. not sure what that equates to in say New York/Boston/Cali or such.

It is my understanding that Buffet and Gates do pay quite a bit of taxes. Of course most of their income is via dividends, investments, etc. vs. earned income taxed at the highest rate so that does make a difference.

But just out of curiosity, what do you think these and other extremely rich people do to pay "very little" taxes while at the same time maintaining a high level of spendable income?

If your talking total taxes paid, Im sure its a huge amount paid by Buffet and Gates, etc as a whole. If your talking % paid though, I think it was quoted at 19% Federal taxes paid for Buffet as in example in 2006 as most was from capital gains and dividends. I think for a long time his base salary was just 50k a year, then raised to 100k not too long ago. Im sure most people would agree Buffet has extensive spendable income.

If your talking extremely rich American people who don't go offshore, Im afraid I don't have an answer for you atm as going offshore has always been the top option for me in regards to legal reasons and I have delved into that more then keeping everything onshore. I havent studied intensely all the options for reducing tax burdens onshore ( but I know they are there ) since going offshore was always the main intent.

 

[eliquid]

Regarding moving amounts over 10k into the US. Notice how a lot of offshore banking locations also have diamond shops? If you were so inclined, you could buy diamonds offshore, bring them to the states, and sell them to a dealer.

it sounds hollywood and a like a lot of work but the benefits could outweigh negatives mentioned in this thread.

I have seen those shops and I guess that in a sense could work.. however that actually sounds a bit dangerous. I mean say you were coming out of South Africa with a shit load of diamonds.. if I was airport security I would for sure think something was up.

 

[dsiomtw]

Regarding moving amounts over 10k into the US. Notice how a lot of offshore banking locations also have diamond shops? If you were so inclined, you could buy diamonds offshore, bring them to the states, and sell them to a dealer.

it sounds hollywood and a like a lot of work but the benefits could outweigh negatives mentioned in this thread.

You would have to declare this when you arrived back in the US. All it will take to make this totally not worth it is to get caught one time, and you would get caught at least one time before long.

 

[dsiomtw]

I have no clue where you live or your situation, but I pay my property taxes 1 time a year and with my home, rental home, and all the land I own I pay roughly 10k a year total. I guess it depends on the tax rate in your county/city/state when it comes to that. I live in a private gated community on a golf course with a lake in Kentucky near a major city.. not sure what that equates to in say New York/Boston/Cali or such.

Well obviously it's all based on the value of your properties. Southern California has relatively low property tax rates, with most places averaging around 1.2% per year of the value of your property. But that means even with a house worth only 1 million you're paying more than 10k a year. Obviously if you live somewhere inexpensive and/or are willing to live in a relatively inexpensive house, you're that much closer to being debt-free and paying less in property taxes.

Im sure most people would agree Buffet has extensive spendable income.

I think the main takeaway here, at least in my opinion, is that at the end of the day the reason Buffet has extensive spendable income is because he has MADE a ton of money, not because he has made a "little" money and figured out how to pay little taxes on it.

Just my opinion, but based on my own experiences and everyone I know, it's just more productive to focus on making more money and building businesses, than it is to spend your time and energy figuring out complex ways of paying less in taxes.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but it seems like the younger guys are generally the ones more interested in saving on taxes. They finally start making some decent money and all of a sudden they get ticked off that they have to pay "so much" in taxes and start researching ways to pay less. These people generally have a "scarcity" mindset.

At the end of the day, once you learn how to make money via a business model that's scalable, there's really no reason you can't make as much money as you want. Then worrying about taxes becomes, well, less of a worry.

I'm not saying we all shouldn't try to pay as little as possible, but IMO most people are better off spending their time learning how to build assets and build businesses than spending considerable time and energy trying to move their "small" business offshore ...

 

[Medici]

I have seen those shops and I guess that in a sense could work.. however that actually sounds a bit dangerous. I mean say you were coming out of South Africa with a shit load of diamonds.. if I was airport security I would for sure think something was up.

I was thinking more along the lines of grand cayman. You purchase diamonds legally, move them into the US, sell for cash. This is an alternative of buying gold since large amounts of money can be moved in a relatively small size in diamond form. I'm not saying you go out doing jungle deals in Liberia.

as for getting caught, $100k in large bills takes up way more space than $100k in diamonds. while still possible, it is far less likely to get caught.

dsiomtw, I agree with you regarding the motivation of a lot of people. However, I think there might be a silent majority that move offshore for asset protection rather than just pure tax saving.

 

[dsiomtw]

I was thinking more along the lines of grand cayman. You purchase diamonds legally, move them into the US, sell for cash. This is an alternative of buying gold since large amounts of money can be moved in a relatively small size in diamond form. I'm not saying you go out doing jungle deals in Liberia.

as for getting caught, $100k in large bills takes up way more space than $100k in diamonds. while still possible, it is far less likely to get caught.

Sure, so you buy a 100k diamond and stick it up your ass lol. 2 problems. 1 - You WILL eventually get busted coming through customs. Trust me on this. 2 - What do you think is going to happen when you sell a 100k diamond in the states? And do it on a regular basis? I'd look in to that before seriously considering this plan.

 

[Medici]

Sure, so you buy a 100k diamond and stick it up your ass lol. 2 problems. 1 - You WILL eventually get busted coming through customs. Trust me on this. 2 - What do you think is going to happen when you sell a 100k diamond in the states? And do it on a regular basis? I'd look in to that before seriously considering this plan.

First, the diamond industry is much like IM, as long as you provide the desired results, no one cares. I hardly believe that an industry which for years bought diamonds from war zones is going to care about one person selling legit diamonds once in a while.

Second, I never said you buy one diamond worth $100k, you buy several to equal that amount. You don't have to shove anything up your ass either.. $100k worth of diamonds can be hidden fairly simply.

I don't do this nor am I planning to. I was simply pointing out a method that might work for some. My suggestion clearly would take a lot of work but that doesn't mean it's not possible. No question there are better options.

 

[Bombastic]

Regarding moving amounts over 10k into the US. Notice how a lot of offshore banking locations also have diamond shops? If you were so inclined, you could buy diamonds offshore, bring them to the states, and sell them to a dealer.

it sounds hollywood and a like a lot of work but the benefits could outweigh negatives mentioned in this thread.

I was looking into this with gold bullion, and I remember the dealer you sell your gold to has to report all cash transactions over $10,000. But anything under that doesn't have to be reported. So I guess you could bring a bunch of coins or small ingots into the country then sell them one by one, making sure the denomination is worth under $10,000. I don't know if it's the same for diamonds.

 

[eliquid]

However, I think there might be a silent majority that move offshore for asset protection rather than just pure tax saving.

^^ this

 

[dsiomtw]

You absolutely do not need to move anything offshore to protect your assets, unless you're the tinfoil hat wearing type that thinks the government might one day just take away all your shit for no reason and there's nothing you can do about it. Short of that, you don't need to move anything offshore to protect your assets.

If you give me a scenario I'll tell you how you can achieve the same thing right here in the US with a lot less hassle and cost. I own nothing of any real value and there's no way anyone could get anything meaningful from me as a result of a lawsuit. They wouldn't even bother suing me if they had a decent attorney.

 

[eliquid]

how about starting with a general affiliate setup then.. just to get this going.

you got an scorp or llc already and running everything thru it. you got umbrella and various insurance policies set up. Then one day your hit with a papers and possible lawsuit from oprah for trademark infringement ( lets just say you didnt know better and copied someone else blog ) and oh by the way a company you never heard of before is also saying one of your domains infringes on their trademark as well ( even though its an obscure name and you honestly didnt know ).

I know lots of people will say "you should know better, yada yada" but we all know there was a flux of new affiliates that just didnt know and copied tons of blogs out there, made money, then got worried. What would you advise in this kind of situation besides the, you should know better and pay up?

Just curious, not my situation.. but always wanted to know

 

[dsiomtw]

Generally speaking you should have multiple entities. Setup a separate company for each niche you're in, each site, each major source of revenue, etc. If nothing else just setup a handful of companies and spread your revenues/business activities around. This is super easy to do and the costs are negligible.

On top of that you shouldn't leave much money sitting around in bank accounts for long. In the case of a "small" online business like affiliate marketing that doesn't need a bunch of capital laying around for future investment purposes, etc. you should remove profits from the business on a regular basis via salaries, dividends, etc.

The idea is basically that if one of your companies got hit with a large judgment, you can just bankrupt the company and move on. If you had 10 entities the most you'd lose is 10% of your total business assets which would be meaningless in the big picture.

Coupled with basic asset protection strategies for yourself personally (i.e. you don't personally own anything of significant value) you would be fine in almost any situation where you didn't commit outright fraud.

Honestly, the overwhelming majority of small businesses setup offshore are setup for the purposes of tax evasion or other fraudulent reasons. And when I say overwhelming, I mean like 99%.

 

[Garrett]

looks like we're all fucked and Uncle Sambama wants our affiliate monies.

 

[eliquid]

^^ if we go with say 10 scorps ( using scorps for reason you mentioned above with dividends and using 10 just cause of the losing the 10% above if you did bankrupt it) or just LLCs, your also gonna need 10 bank accounts then right? and also 10 affiliate accounts at each network ( sounds like split testing would be a bitch to keep together ) right? If not, how would you get around piering the corp veil issues?

Now I know all legal advice is different ( its basically like an opinion to be honest ), but I have had more then 1 lawyer tell me its not how much money the business has left in its bank account, but how much it "profited" from the activity. Im not 100% sure that if you bankrupt the business if that will absolve you from a judgment where you owed 1 million but only had 1k left in the account. I know some cases that did favor what your saying ( scott richter anyone? ), but I know cases in the US where it didn't always fall this way too ( id have to make sure, just saying ), especially if you messed up and crossed up on one of those business's accounts on mistake or have single member LLC's setup ( which gives you very, very little legal protection to be honest ).

I like your idea of having multiple entities for sure, don't get me wrong. Ive looked into that on my own research and paid about 6 diff attorneys on their advice on the same issue. I guess at the end of the day, having 10 entities.. 10 bank accounts, 10 affiliate accounts and keeping all that separate seems like more work then 1 offshore account and then using my extra time to make profits. I do see your logic, its just not my piece of cake at the end of the day.

If you are doing this, how are you keeping all this coherent and separate?

I do agree that most business getting setup offshore seem to fall into the " i dont wanna pay taxes " setup, however there are some good legal setups to be had offshore.

Has anyone else on the board talked to an offshore attorney, an asset protection attorney, AND an estate planning attorney ( all 3 ) about these type of issues? I've talked to multiple ones of all 3 types , but again I know that attorney's will tell you diff things and just curious what they might have said.

 

[Jsmith]

Interesting article on John McAfee "founder of McAfee Antivirus" and how he is allegedly hiding his assets overseas to avoid a lawsuit judgement.

Plagued by Lawsuits, McAfee Founder Hunts for Cures in Belize | Fast Company

Either way, any assets McAfee has moved to Belize will likely remain out of Fleming's reach -- especially since he has taken the step of becoming a permanent resident there. "A judgment in the States is not valid down here," McAfee tells me. "And lawsuits in process in the United States have a difficult time in the collection stage."

John McAfee Redux | Fast Company

 

[cryptix]

creating ebook out of these posts.

how to evade big brother in 10 easy steps.