surprised not a lot of people mentioned credit score. myfico.com is bad-ass, will tell you the fico that most companies use, and has a ton of tools and help for improving the score. you can do all of the stuff mentioned above, but in the end, most CC companies will run a credit check before adjusting your limit (afaik)
Credit Card Limit: Fastest Way To Raise?
- Thread starter Cashito
- Start date
Not true, it depends on bank and setup.
I use a debit card with a POS transaction of 30k a day and I am afforded the same protection as if it was a Credit Card. It is backed by Visa and I only pay a max of $50 for any fraud
Not so.
With my debit card I have the same protection, same points ( exception of Amex ), same rewards, and same purchasing power.
Where is the drawback other then using your own money? In the end your using your own money to pay back the loan from the credit card that you would be using.
Actually, no, it doesn't. There are many legal rights afforded to you that you do not enjoy under a debit card. Most people see a "visa" or "mc" logo and think exactly what you think.
What's interesting is that fraud protection with a credit card dissolved dramatically if you "accidentally" pay for a transaction before discovering the fraud. At that point, because you've already paid, your fraud protection looks almost exactly as it does initially with a debit card, which, of course, you've already paid the moment it's charged to your account.
Let me illustrate an example of a common fraud:
A guy sets-up shop selling just about any low cost item he can get his hands on. For one it was an ass ton of used RAM and network cards. Literally any tangible product he can get somewhat cheap. You get the idea. The transaction goes though. Somtimes small, $25, $30, sometimes bigger, $100-200. Never too big.
You get your product and go on your merry way.
Two months later, the door rings. It's USPS or UPS or whatever, they've got a small package and need you to sign. So, you sign. You open it up, and there's nothing inside but a note that says "Free Gift Department" and a trinket of some kind. I mean, something REALLY obscure: a bar of hotel soap. A pen. And you think "Somebody paid $6 to ship this.... wtf"
A couple days later, you check your card, and... wtf... you have a transaction on there, from the place you bought that RAM/etc from. The transaction is for nearly the same amount. You think it's a mistake. You don't connect this with the free gift. Why would you?
So you call or email the place. A couple days in, no response.
So you call your bank. You do a dispute. If you have a debit card, the money is probably put back into your account within 24-48 hours at most banks. This is pending an investigation, of course. If it's a CC it's removed from your balance immediately. So CC wins there but not by much. I mean, 24 hours is pretty good, even tho it means you could be out of your own money in your own checking account for a day in cases of fraud. Still, i'm with you, that's not so bad.
Here's were it gets ugly.
In both cases, the bank fraud dept does an investigation. They call the merchant. The merchant says "Hey, wait. This guy ORDERED a 2nd item. See? We shipped it. I have his signature, UPS."
If it's a credit card company, especially a good one, they're going to call you, or put you all on 3-way. You'll say "no, they're lying, i didn't order it, they sent me garbage, i didn't realize what it was when i signed." In the end, they'll eat that charge almost certainly. The more it is, the more they may ask of you: Send pictures, sign an affidavit, file a police report, etc. But they'll eat it. And you'll never actually pay it. And they'll never actually pay the merchant. All money is just frozen.
If you're an unlucky debit card holder, here's what's going to happen: They're going to ask you, did you sign. You'll say yes, or you'll say no in which case they'll just ask for the sig from UPS and consider you lying.
When you say "yes" they're going to tell you, "sorry, sir, there's nothing we can do. This becomes an issue of fact, now. We suggest you sue the merchant in small claims court and we can offer some info to you to assist that." And you'll shit and say "what?" And they'll explain, this is a debit card. Money has already moved from one account to the next. Even though it looks and works like a credit card, it's not one. Because the laws that govern this account are the ones originally written for checks not the ones originally written for credit cards. And you'll say "so if i buy a laptop, they ship me a brick, and I sign for it, there's nothing you can do to help me get back my $1500?" And they'll say, yes, if you signed for it, we're sorry but we can't help."
You can call your bank right now and ask. In fact, I think you should. Because you are exposing yourself by using debit cards.
There are many other scams that leave you in a far more rotten place with a debit card than with a credit card.
First and foremost: You've giving the world at large direct access to your cash. With my credit card, I'm giving the world at alrge direct access to my banks cash and my cash by proxy.
No, they're not the same, despite looking that way.
ALSO: as far as "same points" no way. I have 2 cards (one thru Schwab that was discontinued, the other thru NASA FCU) that pay me 2% cash back. I've never seen a debit card with consistently that level of reward. Don't say Perkstreet, even perkstreet isn't as good. it gives out debit cards, I get cold hard 2% cash deposited into my bank account every month.
That's 4 payments a month. That's not bad. But more importantly, it's your habit. It's entirely possible the fraud dept flagged and reviewed some of your payments early on, years ago, but they backed-out and it was no problem.
The risk to a CC company is 2-fold:
They agree to take a risk on you, say $5k, right. That's your CL. If you pay it down every day like the guy said, well, many payment methods can end up not backing-out for the bank and that can take a week or more to discover. So in that time, you charge and pay $5k every day for a week, they're now exposed to $35k of your risk.
Similarly, if you were using a card without somebodies knowledge, you could pay it down, hope they just don't look past the "$0.00 Due" on the website, and keep on with it. Eventually you'll probably max it out and not pay it and your fraud will be discovered. For most cards they post the statement cut date online or you can just guess that it's a few days before your due date.
I never said you would get 2% on a debit card, but I get 1.5%. I think I even said I get good rewards ( but not as much as Amex ).
Also, I have signed for several things that were delivered, paid for on my debit card, and then I disputed as a charge that the merchant also tried to dispute against me with. I win every time.
You might want to re-evaluate your banking relationships. Banks work on the local level, if you have a great relationship with your local branches, you cant get anything you want, when you want it. I want to thank you for your info, but in this case unless you have real world experience in it, I have to say your info is just theory and based on generalization as each bank will have different setups and rules, practices, and processes regardless if the card says Visa or MC, or if its credit or debit.
Each bank is different, each relationship is different. When you are in your bank daily, at multi branches weekly, and have considerable assets in that same said bank, and have a great relationship with everyone there on the local level.. you will find that the example story you gave will not hold true.
I've disputed about 7 charges, 5 of which I know I made and 2 that were outright fraud. 4 of those the merchant disputed my claim and it went under investigation and I only had to wait 48 hours for a resolve, in which I always got my money credited back to me with no issues.
The fact remains, if its back by the funding and protection of Visa and MC, thats what you get. Regardless of what generalities come from it being a debit or credit or charge card, it all boils down to your relationship and how you use your resources.. kinda like affiliate marketing. Its no surprise that the affiliates that daily connnect with their affiliate managers and ad network managers end up getting better placements for cheaper and more attention and insider tips then affiliates that dont. Banking relationships work the same exact way.
Regardless of the setup or resource, if you maintain good relationships and have your facts, its doesn't matter if its a debit, charge, or credit line. Anyone that files a disputes and loses, didn't try hard enough or maintain the relationships they should have. Just cause you can be lazy and not care and then win a dispute as a customer with Amex is not a reason for me to switch to charge cards with them, nor the same with credit.
also, signing for a product you didnt order is massive fail anyways as thats the same as signing a contract without reading it over.
Can you provide an example where I would be held liable for charges that didnt involve me being negligent and signing my name to something that I didnt even order or look over first?
Can you provide an example where I would be held liable for charges that didnt involve me being negligent and signing my name to something that I didnt even order or look over first?
Regardless how you dismiss it, there are protections offered by a credit card that just aren't there with a debit card. For example, the "massive fail" you describe is, with a credit card, not a big deal at all.
You want more information, so fine, here you are.
The card I use most often my charles schwab visa signature card. No preset spending limit. Unlimited free concierge services. The manufacturers warranty is automatically doubled on everything I buy. It has a 60 day price guarantee: if the price drops on something I buy on the card, they'll provide the cash difference. If something gets stolen that I bought on the card within the first 60 days, they'll replace it, No messing with insurance claims. ZERO PERCENT FETF. I travel a lot, that's a killer service.
Of course, there's an annual fee.... oh, wait, no there's not. No annual fee. And I get 2% unlimited cash back on everything I buy.
And there are many other cards out there like that and I didn't have an 810 Fico when I got the card -- More like 740 -- so it's perfectly attainable. Well, not that exact one anymore because Schwab stopped taking new customers but that card is serviced by FIA and they have a nearly identical Fidelity branded Amex with those same features, slightly smaller rewards because they add a 1.5% tier.
And say what you want, Visa and MC hold banks to a certain standard when it comes to Debit card fraud protection. That is true. But that standard is not nearly as high as the legal standard banks are held to for CC fraud protection. It will never be Visa or MC you deal with in the event of fraud, always your local bank.
Your debit card offers none of these benefits. And really, is there a single advantage that a Debit card has that a credit card doesn't? It takes me 30 mins a month to review my statement and pay my credit card bill. Is that the only thing a debit card has going for it? That you don't have to actually setup an EFT to pay it?
Listen, your cash, do what you want. If you want to give up tons of benes and fico juice to dick with debit cards, certainly your right. But suggesting it to other people I think is setting them down the wrong path.
again, what are the legal rights and benefits that are touted so much? Again you provided no facts.
Only thing you did here was describe why Charles Schwab is the best card to get.
1. Do all credit cards give double warranties, hell no.
2. Do all credit cards have no preset spending limits, hell no. Matter of fact when I checked into Schwab years ago your limit was set to whatever you had in your account at the time, so there was a limit.. but it was connected to what your account had in funding. Even though my debit is set to POS 30k a day, I know I can get it raised to 99k a day via my branch manager. I don't need more then 99k a day in spending for anything.
3. Do all credit cards have free concierge service, hell no. Is this a deal breaker for most people, hell no.
4. Do all credit cards have no annual free, hell no and neither does my debit card
So all you did was explain why the cards that YOU personally have are better for you then debit cards, but the fact is you are not supporting why credit cards in general are better then debit cards.
In fact, you support my statement that I make that all banking relationships are local and require you to network and do your due fact checking. Just like my bank does so many wonderful things for me on my debit card because I put the work and effort in, you did the same thing and found 1 or 2 of the best credit cards for you based on your fact finding and networking.
It all comes back down to relationships. Your argument that credit cards are better then debit cards has failed. All you did was prove how great Schwab is and the NASA FCU card too. I almost banked with Schwab, but the fact they had only 1 physical bank branch and that was in Neveda at the time, turned me off when I checked into it.
So again, whats the benefits in general? You only describe your personal experience.
Just because you found the 2 credit cards that are not Amex that give you 2%, or give you a double warranty doesn't mean in general that credit cards > debit cards for anything. You have not listed one thing that proves in general credit cards are better.
Not everyone can get that Schwab card, so that point is mute. Not everyone qualifies for NASA FCU also.. so that is mute. Not everyone can get an AMEX, so that is mute too. Please let me know the advantages now. Just about anyone here can go get a debit card and get alot of the perks that credit cards have in general and still get the same protections as well.
My debit card actually has a number of the things you listed though... #justsayin
Only thing you did here was describe why Charles Schwab is the best card to get.
1. Do all credit cards give double warranties, hell no.
2. Do all credit cards have no preset spending limits, hell no. Matter of fact when I checked into Schwab years ago your limit was set to whatever you had in your account at the time, so there was a limit.. but it was connected to what your account had in funding. Even though my debit is set to POS 30k a day, I know I can get it raised to 99k a day via my branch manager. I don't need more then 99k a day in spending for anything.
3. Do all credit cards have free concierge service, hell no. Is this a deal breaker for most people, hell no.
4. Do all credit cards have no annual free, hell no and neither does my debit card
So all you did was explain why the cards that YOU personally have are better for you then debit cards, but the fact is you are not supporting why credit cards in general are better then debit cards.
In fact, you support my statement that I make that all banking relationships are local and require you to network and do your due fact checking. Just like my bank does so many wonderful things for me on my debit card because I put the work and effort in, you did the same thing and found 1 or 2 of the best credit cards for you based on your fact finding and networking.
It all comes back down to relationships. Your argument that credit cards are better then debit cards has failed. All you did was prove how great Schwab is and the NASA FCU card too. I almost banked with Schwab, but the fact they had only 1 physical bank branch and that was in Neveda at the time, turned me off when I checked into it.
So again, whats the benefits in general? You only describe your personal experience.
Just because you found the 2 credit cards that are not Amex that give you 2%, or give you a double warranty doesn't mean in general that credit cards > debit cards for anything. You have not listed one thing that proves in general credit cards are better.
Not everyone can get that Schwab card, so that point is mute. Not everyone qualifies for NASA FCU also.. so that is mute. Not everyone can get an AMEX, so that is mute too. Please let me know the advantages now. Just about anyone here can go get a debit card and get alot of the perks that credit cards have in general and still get the same protections as well.
My debit card actually has a number of the things you listed though... #justsayin
The massive fail I describe is not even an issue for someone on debit card either. Go and charge it back, dispute it, and provide the information you need.
I'd like to remind you of the rebill era, where people with debit AND credit cards were having to cancel their services left and right ( yes credit cards too ) just to stop the rebilling, where is your protection now with credit cards? It was so bad with credit cards, that VISA AND MC both canceled numerous merchant accounts of rebillers left and right because people were having to cancel and shred up their CREDIT CARDS.
The same happened with debit cards too, but the point is credit cards provided no extra protection to the consumer at all. Again, it comes down to relationships. I was able to knock off a few I signed up for ( research ) by walking into my branch and having them stopped.
I understand that and I respect your opinion as well, trust me.
However, the benefits lost is almost nill ( it comes down to which relationship you pick.. you can go with Amex and get the world handed to you, or go with Citibank and get nothing but both are credit cards ) and the fico juice doesnt mean much if you already have a car loan, maybe a credit card that you already use for personal or other purchases, or a mortgage, or none of the above but cash flow of over 200k a month. Regardless of your fico, if you have cash flow like that you will get credit. You can boost your fico by just having a car loan or mortgage or utility bill you pay off on time every month and maybe a personal credit card with only 2k on it.
Suggesting it to other people IS the right thing to do, I'm showing them the truth in their options and choices from real experience. The wrong path would be to not offer them all their options and choices and just say.. do this and that and this cause its better, and then not tell them why its better and give them actual facts that are not biased.