Dammmn nigga...
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so Suirrel what don't you like the name calling or the fact that I think Isreal should bomb Lebanon into a parkinglot? see if your neighbor is comitting a crime or is plotting too and you know it and do nothing about it you are complicit(sp?) in that crime! Every person living in Lebonon who is not affiliated with a terrorist organization and does not agree with the terrorist cause yet does nothing, says nothing is the same as the terrorist.
You don't like Isreals policy towards Palistine or Hamas or any other group that wants them dead? fine what should they do? don't generalize give a real answer because the only thing that has worked sofar has been to fight back. hell Hamas etal don't have rules yet Isreal does? bullshit!
You don't like Isreals policy towards Palistine or Hamas or any other group that wants them dead? fine what should they do? don't generalize give a real answer because the only thing that has worked sofar has been to fight back. hell Hamas etal don't have rules yet Isreal does? bullshit!
Ok chris... I'll bite.
First off, let me admit that I do not know the details to the entire conflict going on. I never claimed to (like you are claiming), but I can still make some rational judgements to your rediculous claims.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I have friends on both sides of this whole conflict (though they all live in the US now). I have a friend who was actually in the Israeli military, who has killed others in battle. My ex girlfriend is Jewish. While she is not from Israel, she has experienced many ill effects of being Jewish (such as a few threats, name calling etc.). On the other side of this I have a few friends and many coworkers who are from Iraq, Iran, India, and Pakistan.
All these people are good people. Obviously "good" is an opinion and completely subjective, but they are all fairly intelligent, kind, and for the most part, open minded. Now, the "for the most part" is where it gets tricky. Most of these people were born into a world of pure hate and fear. Even though they are open towards most religions and cultures, they have strong negative feelings towards either the Jewish or Muslim community. My friend that is was in the Israeli military isn't even Jewish, well, I guess technically he is, but he doesn't believe in it. However, bring up the conflict going on over there and his face gets red and he'll let you know exactly how he feels about the Muslims in the Middle East.
Anyway, why do I bring that all up? Because according to you chris, everybody that happens to be Muslim in the Middle East needs to die. This would have included my Muslim friends, even though they've never harmed anybody. They do have negative feelings towards the Jewish community and especially Israel, but they've never attacked anybody, never even said anything harmful towards the "other side". The thing is, my Israeli friend has just as strong, if not stronger, negative feelings but according to you, he's fine to go about killing Muslims. Why?
You say Israel should be able to kill those that want to kill them. Great... the same can be said for Palistine. Why can't Palistine kill those in Israel that try to kill them, especially if Israel took your advice and decided it was time to just wipe out all of Palistine?
Also, the issue is much more difficult than just "Israel is defending their country". What if the most holy, sacred place in the world to you was denied to you when your religion tells you that it belongs to you? For most of these people (on both sides), the land in Israel represents something much more important than life itself. As such, they are willing to die to either defend it or take it back.
I've rambled on way too much, trying to give a bit of light to somebody who has clearly made up his mind and will never listen to reason. This is actually quite appropriate since the MAIN problem in the Middle East is that both sides are too stubborn and blind to realize it's not worth all the suffering, death, and fear. You, chrislingle, seem to exemplify this very problem. You would arbitrarily decide to wipe out an entire civilization, innocents and all, just because you refuse to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. I pity you and fear for the future of mankind.
And in case it sheds some light on my perspective, I personally was raised Catholic but am completely Agnostic (don't believe in any religion at all). Also, I was born and raised in California and I'm white. (So in case anybody wants to use that against me, there you go).
First off, let me admit that I do not know the details to the entire conflict going on. I never claimed to (like you are claiming), but I can still make some rational judgements to your rediculous claims.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I have friends on both sides of this whole conflict (though they all live in the US now). I have a friend who was actually in the Israeli military, who has killed others in battle. My ex girlfriend is Jewish. While she is not from Israel, she has experienced many ill effects of being Jewish (such as a few threats, name calling etc.). On the other side of this I have a few friends and many coworkers who are from Iraq, Iran, India, and Pakistan.
All these people are good people. Obviously "good" is an opinion and completely subjective, but they are all fairly intelligent, kind, and for the most part, open minded. Now, the "for the most part" is where it gets tricky. Most of these people were born into a world of pure hate and fear. Even though they are open towards most religions and cultures, they have strong negative feelings towards either the Jewish or Muslim community. My friend that is was in the Israeli military isn't even Jewish, well, I guess technically he is, but he doesn't believe in it. However, bring up the conflict going on over there and his face gets red and he'll let you know exactly how he feels about the Muslims in the Middle East.
Anyway, why do I bring that all up? Because according to you chris, everybody that happens to be Muslim in the Middle East needs to die. This would have included my Muslim friends, even though they've never harmed anybody. They do have negative feelings towards the Jewish community and especially Israel, but they've never attacked anybody, never even said anything harmful towards the "other side". The thing is, my Israeli friend has just as strong, if not stronger, negative feelings but according to you, he's fine to go about killing Muslims. Why?
You say Israel should be able to kill those that want to kill them. Great... the same can be said for Palistine. Why can't Palistine kill those in Israel that try to kill them, especially if Israel took your advice and decided it was time to just wipe out all of Palistine?
Also, the issue is much more difficult than just "Israel is defending their country". What if the most holy, sacred place in the world to you was denied to you when your religion tells you that it belongs to you? For most of these people (on both sides), the land in Israel represents something much more important than life itself. As such, they are willing to die to either defend it or take it back.
I've rambled on way too much, trying to give a bit of light to somebody who has clearly made up his mind and will never listen to reason. This is actually quite appropriate since the MAIN problem in the Middle East is that both sides are too stubborn and blind to realize it's not worth all the suffering, death, and fear. You, chrislingle, seem to exemplify this very problem. You would arbitrarily decide to wipe out an entire civilization, innocents and all, just because you refuse to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. I pity you and fear for the future of mankind.
And in case it sheds some light on my perspective, I personally was raised Catholic but am completely Agnostic (don't believe in any religion at all). Also, I was born and raised in California and I'm white. (So in case anybody wants to use that against me, there you go).
Squirrel, I am not trying to get into someone elses shoes, I find it scarrey that people do not understand that "muslim" extreamests do not want to have a dialog with you, they do not want to put themselves in our shoes they want to KILL US because we do not follow what they think is right. I do not think all muslims should die however tell me why I should not be on the offensive when these people are trying to kill me. They are not trying to kill me you say, well what about the guy who was recently arrested in Canada I believe who was completely integrated into western society and ploting to blow shit up? (oh I should not believe this because the government can't be trusted right? it was only 1 person you say, well what about the people we don't yet know about?)
Not every muslim is an extreamest you say, well true but how many are? 5%? that is hundreds of thousands, the size of a large army. You do understand that these people think your wife should belong to you and should not leave the house unless you tell her she can, and that is probably one of there nicer beliefs. They want this to be law not just in there countries but for the whole world!
Your arguement that palistinians can kill Jews because they think isreal is a terroist state is stupid! you see any jews walking into palistinan cafees and blowing themselves up in the name of god? do you think it is Isreal who should make the first move to end the conflict? they can't because if they do they show weakness and that will mark the end of Isreal, these people will not and should not role over again like they did in Germany. So all your arguments don't wash and would have this world under "sharia" (sp) law very very soon. you would have to do what they say or be killed. are you ok with that because that is the outcome if the world listend to people like you.
Not every muslim is an extreamest you say, well true but how many are? 5%? that is hundreds of thousands, the size of a large army. You do understand that these people think your wife should belong to you and should not leave the house unless you tell her she can, and that is probably one of there nicer beliefs. They want this to be law not just in there countries but for the whole world!
Your arguement that palistinians can kill Jews because they think isreal is a terroist state is stupid! you see any jews walking into palistinan cafees and blowing themselves up in the name of god? do you think it is Isreal who should make the first move to end the conflict? they can't because if they do they show weakness and that will mark the end of Isreal, these people will not and should not role over again like they did in Germany. So all your arguments don't wash and would have this world under "sharia" (sp) law very very soon. you would have to do what they say or be killed. are you ok with that because that is the outcome if the world listend to people like you.
This will be my last comment to you as it really is a waste to argue with somebody who doesn't listen or bother to try and take on a different perspective. As such, I'll answer your latest arguments and then just watch your reply with baseless nonsense.
I completely agree that there are muslim extremists that want to kill those that don't comply with their religion. In your words "they want to KILL US because we do not follow what they think is right". That is a truly hilarious thing for you to point out... why? Because that is EXACTLY what you want to do to them. YOU want to kill them because they are not following what YOU think is right. By "they" I am not talking about just the extremists, as you pointed out killing many more than just those that are actively or passively intending us harm. So, you're doing the exact same thing as the extremists in wanting to kill others that aren't doing what YOU think is right.
Heh, lots of fun stuff in that section. First, you say you don't want to kill all Muslims, but then you pretty much try to explain why we should kill them all because a very small minority are evil. Ignoring the fact that you contradicted yourself, you did bring up the argument against yourself by pointing out that it you are punishing an entire group because of a few bad eggs. Your comment that "well what about the people we don't yet know about" scares the shit out of me. I mean, shit dude, if you really believe this... you probably need to be locked up. That's the same attitude that Nazi's used, that the US government used against the Japanese, and that the whole anti Communism movement used. Why not just kill everybody out there because who knows who might be a threat? And whatever religion/race/culture you are, I'm sure I could point out a hell of a lot of bad people that would show that I should then just wipe out YOUR entire "group". If you're American, as I am, just point out that our country is the only country to have used nuclear weapons against another country, and that could be a pretty strong argument that perhaps all Americans should die. And no, I don't hate the US, I fucking love it and think it's the greatest country in the world (but that's a topic for another conversation).
Actually, yes. It happens on both sides. And probably unlike you, I've heard first hand experiences of it from both sides.
I assume you meant by Isreal making the first move, you meant the first move in stopping the aggression? If you meant the first move in attacking, then I'm confused because that is what you say should happen. So, assuming you meant that if Isreal stopped fighting "first" that they would show weakness that would mark the end of the country, well, I don't really know what to say. I never said either side should just all of a sudden stop fighting because clearly they would be destroyed be the other. I wish both sides could just stop fighting instantly and make peace, but that ain't happening. I never claimed to have a solution to the conflict, if I had one, I think I'd go ahead and run for president and write a few books to become rich.
Sorry, but I didn't really come out with too many arguments with my previous post. They were more just me trying to show you a different side of things, explaining my perspective with having friends from both sides, a few of them who had very personal involvment with the conflict. This time I've pretty much pulled apart all your "arguments", but you will surely ignore that fact.
Like I said before, you frighten me, make me angry, and make me sad all at the same time.
chrislingle said:
I completely agree that there are muslim extremists that want to kill those that don't comply with their religion. In your words "they want to KILL US because we do not follow what they think is right". That is a truly hilarious thing for you to point out... why? Because that is EXACTLY what you want to do to them. YOU want to kill them because they are not following what YOU think is right. By "they" I am not talking about just the extremists, as you pointed out killing many more than just those that are actively or passively intending us harm. So, you're doing the exact same thing as the extremists in wanting to kill others that aren't doing what YOU think is right.
chrislingle said:
Heh, lots of fun stuff in that section. First, you say you don't want to kill all Muslims, but then you pretty much try to explain why we should kill them all because a very small minority are evil. Ignoring the fact that you contradicted yourself, you did bring up the argument against yourself by pointing out that it you are punishing an entire group because of a few bad eggs. Your comment that "well what about the people we don't yet know about" scares the shit out of me. I mean, shit dude, if you really believe this... you probably need to be locked up. That's the same attitude that Nazi's used, that the US government used against the Japanese, and that the whole anti Communism movement used. Why not just kill everybody out there because who knows who might be a threat? And whatever religion/race/culture you are, I'm sure I could point out a hell of a lot of bad people that would show that I should then just wipe out YOUR entire "group". If you're American, as I am, just point out that our country is the only country to have used nuclear weapons against another country, and that could be a pretty strong argument that perhaps all Americans should die. And no, I don't hate the US, I fucking love it and think it's the greatest country in the world (but that's a topic for another conversation).
chrislingle said:
Actually, yes. It happens on both sides. And probably unlike you, I've heard first hand experiences of it from both sides.
chrislingle said:
I assume you meant by Isreal making the first move, you meant the first move in stopping the aggression? If you meant the first move in attacking, then I'm confused because that is what you say should happen. So, assuming you meant that if Isreal stopped fighting "first" that they would show weakness that would mark the end of the country, well, I don't really know what to say. I never said either side should just all of a sudden stop fighting because clearly they would be destroyed be the other. I wish both sides could just stop fighting instantly and make peace, but that ain't happening. I never claimed to have a solution to the conflict, if I had one, I think I'd go ahead and run for president and write a few books to become rich.
chrislingle said:
Sorry, but I didn't really come out with too many arguments with my previous post. They were more just me trying to show you a different side of things, explaining my perspective with having friends from both sides, a few of them who had very personal involvment with the conflict. This time I've pretty much pulled apart all your "arguments", but you will surely ignore that fact.
Like I said before, you frighten me, make me angry, and make me sad all at the same time.
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