Do you require managed or unmanaged servers?

What do you need?

  • I need someone to do things for me... managed.

    Votes: 26 55.3%

  • I can handle things myself... unmanaged.

    Votes: 21 44.7%
  • Total voters
    47
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subigo

subigo

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Oct 20, 2007
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I'd like to get a feel for what people on wf actually need in terms of a VPS or a dedicated server.

How many of you can handle your own server? How many need fully managed services?

We've finally found a datacenter within a few hours of us that we like and if everything goes as planned we should be offering vps/dedicated servers this year... Of course if everyone needs managed services that could delay things a bit...
 


I prefer hosts to just host it and never touch it or care what I host, I like when hosts have remote on/off/reboot switches in their member pages too.


I find that I have more trouble when other people try to manage it instead of myself.
 
I prefer to do everything myself... however, I do have retarded moments and occasionally have problems where I need some help with certain things which is why I have managed now...

that and the fact that my sites are my sole source of income... it's just peace of mind really having managed as a safeguard in case all hell breaks loose...
 
Subigo, the real answer is it Depends....Quite a few variables in play....

However if you are moving into Managed VPS, One may give you a try. To really cater to some one like me with mixed needs from a non techy's perspective. You would have to throw in or subsidise activities like script installations...etc...Which may or may not be worth your time....

For Example some starting out may want to build a *cough* farm and may want Blog Solution or something like that installed and properly configured.

You could possibly develop a package that throws in installations plus multiple IPS. Like I said the possible headaches there may or may not be economically your while or on the other hand, you could Price It, so its worth your while
 
dodgy said:
Subigo, the real answer is it Depends....Quite a few variables in play....
Click to expand...


I know for me personally, I would need managed. I am able to sell it, but only a minimal bit of knowledge on how to work it.

There are server management companies out there. Also, it sounds like you might end up doing some colo~ing. Talk to CPA to see if that is necessarily the best step and fits into your growth plans. If not, there are plenty of reseller programs available for dedicated servers.

Good luck.
 
Even though I'm capable enough to manage things on my own, I always sign up for some extra management + monitoring from PhantomNOC.com or PlatinumServerManagement.com
It's just a safety measure + they do all the dirty work you want them to do @ $20-30 a month!
 
If you don't mind me asking, what datacenter did you end up finding good colo & bandwidth rates at? I'm pretty sure I shot you some suggestions on MO/KC area datacenters at WHT a few months back, but I can't find the post due to WHT's recent database issues.

In terms of managed services, I don't require them since my business partner is my server admin, but if I didn't have him, I'd prefer at least some level of basic management or at least the option to pay for extra if needed. Really the only thing I've ever really used a managed provider to do is kernel upgrades and an OS update once. Anything my server admin has done is pretty basic work that could be done just by having CPanel installed, aside from some MySQL/PHP upgrades, server hardening, and server tweaks. I've also hired an outside server admin on one-off occasions to secure a new server or do some upgrades or tweaks.

The one time having a managed server from a datacenter really came in handy is when I used to run a web host. The hard drive on my shared hosting server died at 6 AM, and by 6:30 the datacenter had caught the fact that my server was down, figured out the HD was fried, had a new server installing with my old partitioning, and my backup HD in the new machine ready to restore backups as soon as everything was ready. By the time I was able to put in my reboot ticket at 6:15, it turns out their tech already hooked up a console to my server to figure out what the heck was preventing the server from coming back up.
 
johu said:
If you don't mind me asking, what datacenter did you end up finding good colo & bandwidth rates at? I'm pretty sure I shot you some suggestions on MO/KC area datacenters at WHT a few months back, but I can't find the post due to WHT's recent database issues.

In terms of managed services, I don't require them since my business partner is my server admin, but if I didn't have him, I'd prefer at least some level of basic management or at least the option to pay for extra if needed. Really the only thing I've ever really used a managed provider to do is kernel upgrades and an OS update once. Anything my server admin has done is pretty basic work that could be done just by having CPanel installed, aside from some MySQL/PHP upgrades, server hardening, and server tweaks. I've also hired an outside server admin on one-off occasions to secure a new server or do some upgrades or tweaks.

The one time having a managed server from a datacenter really came in handy is when I used to run a web host. The hard drive on my shared hosting server died at 6 AM, and by 6:30 the datacenter had caught the fact that my server was down, figured out the HD was fried, had a new server installing with my old partitioning, and my backup HD in the new machine ready to restore backups as soon as everything was ready. By the time I was able to put in my reboot ticket at 6:15, it turns out their tech already hooked up a console to my server to figure out what the heck was preventing the server from coming back up.
Click to expand...

We found two really cheap places with quality bandwidth...

1. WholesaleInternet.com – Kansas City Internet Hosting Services - Who I think we would go with for VPS server colo....

2. Joe's Data Center, Oak Towers, Kansas City, MO -- dedicated servers - Who I would go with if I just needed some good bandwidth and lived within a few miles of the place. (Joe gives you 24/7 access to your server)...
 
subigo said:
We found two really cheap places with quality bandwidth...

1. WholesaleInternet.com – Kansas City Internet Hosting Services - Who I think we would go with for VPS server colo....

2. Joe's Data Center, Oak Towers, Kansas City, MO -- dedicated servers - Who I would go with if I just needed some good bandwidth and lived within a few miles of the place. (Joe gives you 24/7 access to your server)...
Click to expand...
I actually had a dedicated server at WholesaleInternet for a short period of time a few years ago. For what I needed it for, their network was pretty good, and Aaron provided some good support. I was beta-testing DirectAdmin at the time and either it or the hardware was causing the system to become non-responsive at times (in hindsight, it was probably DA since it happened at two different datacenters) and Aaron was extremely efficient in testing the hardware to see if anything needed to be replaced.

Joe's Data Center used to colo with Wholesale Internet and still uses their bandwidth from what I know. I'd gamble to say that you could work out a better deal on bandwidth from WholesaleInternet.

The only downside to their bandwidth is that it's mostly or all Cogent bandwidth. Aaron has said that they have some bandwidth through Level3 and Qwest through another provider, but I can't get an incoming trace to WholesaleInternet to show Level3 or Qwest, not on Level3 nor Qwest's Looking Glass sites.
 
johu said:
I actually had a dedicated server at WholesaleInternet for a short period of time a few years ago. For what I needed it for, their network was pretty good, and Aaron provided some good support. I was beta-testing DirectAdmin at the time and either it or the hardware was causing the system to become non-responsive at times (in hindsight, it was probably DA since it happened at two different datacenters) and Aaron was extremely efficient in testing the hardware to see if anything needed to be replaced.

Joe's Data Center used to colo with Wholesale Internet and still uses their bandwidth from what I know. I'd gamble to say that you could work out a better deal on bandwidth from WholesaleInternet.

The only downside to their bandwidth is that it's mostly or all Cogent bandwidth. Aaron has said that they have some bandwidth through Level3 and Qwest through another provider, but I can't get an incoming trace to WholesaleInternet to show Level3 or Qwest, not on Level3 nor Qwest's Looking Glass sites.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Cogent bandwidth is a downside... but not a big enough downside to make me run away. However, they do have some Level3 bandwidth now and from what I can tell it's about 2 to 1 in Cogent's favor... And yeah, I thought I had read on WHT that Joe was independent now, but it looks like he still resells... Either way, $50 for cololocation is crazy and it's literally 3 minutes from one of my best friends apartments.

And yep. I'm pretty sure you're the one that first recommended WholesaleInternet to me... I kind of blew them off at first because their site was a bit scary and I never received a response from them when I sent an email. But I've read some really good reviews about them over the past six months. So we'll see...

EDIT: Correction... I just called Joe's and he is independent now and has his own place.
 
IronLogik said:
out of principle i must always be root, no one else.
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Managed services doesn't mean that you lose root access, always. I've never actually had a managed server where I wasn't root, and didn't have to authorize any and all managed services being performed, down to kernel upgrades.
subigo said:
Yeah, the Cogent bandwidth is a downside... but not a big enough downside to make me run away. However, they do have some Level3 bandwidth now and from what I can tell it's about 2 to 1 in Cogent's favor... And yeah, I thought I had read on WHT that Joe was independent now, but it looks like he still resells... Either way, $50 for cololocation is crazy and it's literally 3 minutes from one of my best friends apartments.

And yep. I'm pretty sure you're the one that first recommended WholesaleInternet to me... I kind of blew them off at first because their site was a bit scary and I never received a response from them when I sent an email. But I've read some really good reviews about them over the past six months. So we'll see...

EDIT: Correction... I just called Joe's and he is independent now and has his own place.
Click to expand...
Sorry I wasn't too clear there - Joe's is located in its own facility now, but uses WholesaleInternet as their bandwidth provider. WholesaleInternet has (or had) 2 facilities in KC, one of which is either in the same building as Joe's or a few buildings away, and the other is a few minute drive away I believe. I've been out of the server industry for a few years, so I'm not quite up on everything.
 
johu said:
Managed services doesn't mean that you lose root access, always. I've never actually had a managed server where I wasn't root, and didn't have to authorize any and all managed services being performed, down to kernel upgrades.

Sorry I wasn't too clear there - Joe's is located in its own facility now, but uses WholesaleInternet as their bandwidth provider. WholesaleInternet has (or had) 2 facilities in KC, one of which is either in the same building as Joe's or a few buildings away, and the other is a few minute drive away I believe. I've been out of the server industry for a few years, so I'm not quite up on everything.
Click to expand...

Oh, I see what you're saying. I thought you meant he was simply reselling their equipment from their location (which apparently he used to do).
 
I personally use managed services. I don't know enough of the admin related tasks and I don't care to deal with it either
 
Managed. If there was only one thing I could outsource, it would always be server management. It's not my area of expertise, and I don't have time to muck around with it.

If done right, it is a great premium upsell. But it has to be done right. Fast response times and aggressive monitoring.
 
Management. I will pay for someone who knows their shit, and I do. I want to be able to install simple scripts, make simple databases, install wordpress and so on. You handle the reboots, keeping an eye on resources, updates and all the rest. Like guerilla said, fast response times and constant monitoring goes a long way - plus always friendly staff that realizes not everyone wants to be a server admin and some of us just want to build shit and make money and outsource as much as possible.
 
I like tinkering around and can handle patching, installation etc so I would not dish out $30 extra. A penny saved is a penny earned.
 
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