Employers have gone crazy.

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emp

emp

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Jun 29, 2006
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Interview-crazy, that is.

So I sent in my CV for a programming job.

Had a short phone interview with some female from HR.

Had another longer phone interview with that person today.

She told me some more things about the work, the organization, etc..

THEN she told me what is coming my way:

- interview with her and IT department head in person
- meet the team
- meet the code
- interview with the CEO

Including the phone calls we had, that amounts to 6 interviews?
They are spending about 2 monthly salaries on the interview process.

Excuse me?

To top that off, my references and work records are top notch.

Now, I have studied work psychology and interview processes like that do not work.
The best correlation between work success/interview methods that can be achieved is 33%. (0.33)

Sadly, there is no process that is better than others, an assesment center of 3 days fairs as well as a written test, does as well as a normal interview.
People only feel better about the results.

With THIS crap (which is also Google Standard, BTW) they will only loose qualified people to other, faster companies.

Damn, I need to grow my own business faster than I thought, this is giving me stomach ulcers. :mad:

::emp::
 


emp said:
Including the phone calls we had, that amounts to 6 interviews?
They are spending about 2 monthly salaries on the interview process.
Click to expand...

Other companies pay 1/2 of the yearly salary of a new CEO to the headhunter....... imagine a yearly income of 800.000 ...... would be 400.000 for the headhunter :D
 
Actually, I have some insight into the "headhunter" biz.

It is normally a percentage of the salary of person who is hired not the CEOs salary.
(Unless, of course, they are hiring a new CEO)

::emp::
 
I had a three day interview testing process with a company. And no it was not a government job.

I got the job and wish I hadnt. They were crazy control freaks... Hard to imagine huh? First instincts should have told me that....
 
In my experience, the longer/harder the interview process, the more the job will ultimately suck. Everyone and their uncle getting in on the interview is just them seeing how many asses you're willing to suck to get the job in the first place.

The suckage will accelerate afterwards.
 
I did a short stint as a recruiter before I got into this whole internet thing. I can comment on two points:

1. The head hunter gets a 1-time commision of about 10-35% of the employees base salary. Generally the more professional the position, the higher that percentage is. If you're hiring a receptionist, you'll be closer to 10%. If you're hiring a CIO, it'll be closer to the 35% mark.

2. Programmers are especially hard to hire for (as opposed to other types of IT roles) because I think programmers tend to... shall we say... spent a lot of employers time working on other projects.

Just about every programmer I know that works for "the man" spends a considerable amount of time on their own projects. Employers know this and they are trying to weed out all the candidates and find the "Company Man" (or woman) -- someone who seems like they will be 100% dedicated to THEIR task at hand.

Some interview tips:

Dealing with the hyper-ups: If you're dealing with C-Level Execs, talk more abstractly from a higher level about improving efficiency, communication, increasing ROI, etc. Don't get too technical -- chances are these folks don't know PHP from .NET... Just talk about efficiency, process improvement, the importance of clear communication, workplans, etc. It doesn't hurt to kiss ass a little, but they can see through that and are looking for someone who they can consider a long-term member of the organization.

Dealing with mid-level managers: Generally these are the folks who are personel managers but don't really get the technology; they are in a rut because this is the furthest they are going in their lifetime ad want their asses kissed. So just nod your head and agree with wahtever they say. Bring up some IT buzzwords (XML, Information Architecture, AJAX, Virtualization etc) b/c chances are they won't know what the hell you're talking about anyway.

Dealing with peers/business analysts/programmers: These guys get the technology so talk as open/technical as you want with these guys. Give them the sense that you really know what you're talking about beause their manager, who prob. doesn't know jack, is going to base their decision off of a.) how much you kissed their ass and b.) what their programmers thought of you. Basically just try to connect with them and find a common/shared love for the technology

Good luck going through the interview gauntlet!
 
I write a programming blog and my most popular articles have been those about job interviews, from both sides of the table. One I posted late last night on how to hire smarter programmers had over 1200 hits on that single article just today.

I hate the draw out interview process though. None have turned out that good for me and have been a huge waste of time and gas. The best ones are where the recruiter gets a call from the employer saying they want to hire me before I get home.
 
My work is the same way, but before you even fill out an application, they make you fill out this stupid piece of paper that they run through a machine to find out if they like you or not. And I could understand if there were some questions on there and some psychology involved, but it's a long list of words and you check which ones apply to you. They will interview you no matter what, but the thing spits out a graph, and if it doesn't match the exact pattern they want, even if they are the most perfect candidate, HR won't let them hire you. They worship this thing and pay hundreds of dollars for every license, but before the company will sell us a license, the person who gets it has to go through their 3 day 2500 dollar training. What's really even more sad is that all you have to do is check all the good words and leave the bad ones alone. It has words like: hard-working, caring, energetic, etc.. then it has words like lazy, rude, etc..

Fuck, sorry for the rant. I told my boss that thing was worthless one time and she flipped out so now I bite my tongue.

On top of all that shit, she literally interviews 100 people before she finds one, then they have to meet the team, then if we like them, she will call them and talk for hours to get a feel for them. And this is for entry level PC hardware guys and Receptionists too.

I hate working for the man. It sucks though, because even when I was making more than my pay check online, I would always think, fuck this shit, I am getting two pay checks! and I would stay.
 
That's one hell of a filtering process. I agree with you re losing qualified applicants to competitors due to an overwhelming recruitment process.

At our company, we hire writers after a) intensive grammar/technical skills testing b) written exam and 2 interviews. Efficient.
 
The best correlation between work success/interview methods that can be achieved is 33%. (0.33)
Click to expand...
What? Where did you read that. Correlation does not prove causation.
 
Yes.
At best it proves that "future success" is not measured easily.
The point that was made is that a drawn out and expensive interview process does not equal quality or predictive quality.

::emp::
 
Seems like you were interviewing with M$ -- they are the only ones reputed to have such a horrible interview procedure.
 
nope.

Google does the same.

And here in Switzerland, almost all companies seem to do this. frustrating!

::emp::
 
emp said:
nope.

Google does the same.

And here in Switzerland, almost all companies seem to do this. frustrating!

::emp::
Click to expand...
I guess... but MS is just too extreme. I was interviewed by 4 different people for the position and everyone had to say yes for me to be approved.... It was frustrating. Anyway I am glad that Jobs and I aren't made for each other. =D
 
reminds me of the interview i had with backbase in amsterdam. had to take a programming test, then speak with the manager, 3 programmers and then another interview with everyone at once. i think the russian guy on the team didn't like me though. total asshole from the moment he said hello.
 
is it a small company? it has to be if the CEO wants to interview you. regardless, it sounds like a company where it would take care of you if they want to get to know you that much.
 
We'll see how it goes.
I am really planning on growing my own biz, but that is gonna take a bit longer.

Actually, one company already lost me last year doing this stunt.
At the phone call for "one last interview appointment" I told them I already got a position in the meantime.

They were a bit miffed.

And ... Google is the worst.
1 Call HR, 1 written Test, 1 more HR call, 3 phone interviews before they will even see you in person.

Those companies are spending more time and money on this shit than it would take to just hire three and fire 2 after one month.

::emp::
 
I hope I never have to look for a real job again. I plan on being self employed sometime in the next year.
 
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