EXPELLED -How Schools Are Hiding Real Science.

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The point of what he said was.
“if truth be told, evolution hasn't yielded many practical or commercial benefits. Yes, bacteria evolve drug resistance, and yes, we must take countermeasures, but beyond that there is not much to say.” His words
No the point of that is why we need to brainwash our children with this I dont know. Did you happen to check out the other professors or are you just going to give me amazon links.
 


Ok, I've just had a look at the next one, on Jerry Coyne:

Jerry Coyne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He's against ID and pro evolution.

It is however pointless trying to find scientists that oppose evolution, or promote ID, there will always be people out there that disagree. The point is, you find where the vast amount of evidence points, and this is indisputably pro evolution.
 
If by vast amount of evidence you mean.

We have clear evidence of non life becoming life.

We have clear evidence that DNA information arises in a form of new traits. (mutated or mixed)

We have a missing link; ape to human (thats non ape or human)

None of you gave me my answers. You could have used Scientific America for that. By the way zombie looking guy most of my links were not from bias sites. Including the ones I used to wipe my ass and put right back in your mouth argument - remember your silly argument about LUCA. Same thing with that guy and his human horns. Please dont take the whole thread out of context by one post. Thats just cheap.


At least I made up my money from this morning up to $700 so far, could have been over a $G. Made my point, you made your. I got to go make some money.

Ruskycrest OUT.
 
BluuueJammm said:
Nice link.

Rusky, try to find some decent anti evolution articles in a journal like Scientific American, not one of your bullshit discovery rags.
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Meh, Rusky is one of those guys who just don't get it. They have already made up their mind (even if they say they haven't) and the only thing they do is use irrelevant arguments and sometimes even lies to try to "prove" a point. They jump on anything pseudoscientists says as long as it's somehow is against evolution. The simple reason for this is that they are not interested in sceince or evolution at all, just their own narrow minded world view.. because without it... they are empty. And no one likes emptiness. First we need to get the stupid idea that there is a god (or intelligent designer.. which.. is.. the same thing) out of their heads. Then and only then is it worth educating them on evolution.
 
There's potentially 3 debates here: The origin of the universe, the origin of life on Earth and the origin of human beings.

I find the suggestion made by some that the origin of the universe can be confused with evolutionary theory astounding, but I can see how - if incorrectly taught - there may be confusion regarding the evolution and origin of life on Earth.

If evolutionary theory is being taught as fact then that should be addressed, and maybe intelligent design does have it's place as an alternative theory. However religious beliefs if mentioned should only be as a sub-note, along with ET and the FSM. ("Some people believe....") There is no logical argument that one ID theory has more validity than another.

Others have mentioned that what is scientifically seen as the most plausible explanation for something is always changing, the problem is when theories are presented as facts, and (the often over-worked) teachers fail to make the distinction clear or just get it wrong (probably believing what they teach).

I remember when being taught that all energy on Earth came from the Sun. A few years later I thought, "how do we see stars?"

The only place religion has in schools is in history and sociology lessons, but ID could be addressed, along with say, spontaneous independent existence (did I just make that up?) and any or all alternatives to any "accepted wisdom".

But that would encourage kids to think for themselves.. do they really want that? Imagine if most kids thought about anything without believing that one theory or teaching is the truth? Perception and reality, life and death, good and evil... Say the guy Eli posted really did speak to God (Fucking great article btw... ticks some boxes for me) and everyone grows up to consider that as valid as Christianity and Atheism.

If the sheeple where educated to consider all possibilities... there'd be no sheeple.
 
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pat J said:
They have already made up their mind (even if they say they haven't) and the only thing they do is use irrelevant arguments and sometimes even lies to try to "prove" a point.

....

First we need to get the stupid idea that there is a god (or intelligent designer.. which.. is.. the same thing) out of their heads. Then and only then is it worth educating them on evolution.
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pot_calls_kettle_black.bmp
 
I dropped out of this because idiots only ever drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience when it comes to arguing...

But Rusky, m'boy, we've given you plenty of evidence.
I gave you evidence of non-life becoming life. Organic compounds, that natureally occur, then getting some current going through them. ShamPOW! They turned into simply organisms.
Sounds like non life becoming life to me.
I gave you Dede. A guy whos skin turned into horns.

And your rebuttal of my cutaneous horns was bullshit, because by that logic, hair and feathers are the exact same thing.
Feathers are also made out of keratin. It was you that said the horns were made of keratin, which was the same as skin, and not for a different purpose or made of a different subtance... like feathers... which was then when I realised you're a moron ;)

And I'm going to bow out for a final time and not return, lest I be dragged down to idiocy full time.
 
HarveyJ this is just to easy. Heres you quote.

"Rusky: You are either smoking something, stupid, or just willfully ignorant.
What part of human flesh turning into cutaneous horns due to a virus doesn't sound like a new trait? "

and your other one
"It was you that said the horns were made of keratin, which was the same as skin, and not for a different purpose or made of a different subtance... like feathers... which was then when I realised you're a moron"

Now I will show you how to do research.

Whats a cutaneous horn? (And I knew this would throw you off)
Keratins are the main constituent of structures that grow from the skin:
the α-keratins in the hair, horns, nails, claws and hooves of mammals.

Now heres the other part.
This is from world journal. - World Journal of Surgical Oncology | Full text | Cutaneous horns: are these lesions as innocent as they seem to be? (Click this link and read it)
NOW THIS IS WERE YOU PAY ATTENTION!
Cutaneous horns, though grossly similar to horns in animals are histologically quite different from them. The animal horns are composed of superficial hyperkeratotic epidermis, dermis, and centrally positioned bone. No such axially positioned well-formed bone is observed in the gigantic human horns.

You know like our hair and nails are modifications of our skin.
What I meant by this, was its not a new trait, but just a modification of your skin - just like hair and nails are.


Thats you. Stop this is to much for you. Pay attention to the words.
OL-Donkey-Cart.jpg


I really should stop this. __________________
 
HarveyJ said:
I dropped out of this because idiots only ever drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience when it comes to arguing...
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Good point, I'm going to try and resist posting again after this.

BluuueJammm said:
Rusky, try to find some decent anti evolution articles in a journal like Scientific American, not one of your bullshit discovery rags.
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You see it's because you can't. I haven't seen one link that you've posted that goes against evolution and comes from a credible source.

LazyHippy said:
I find the suggestion made by some that the origin of the universe can be confused with evolutionary theory astounding,
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Same here, it just shows a basic lack of understanding of the entire thing.

LazyHippy said:
If evolutionary theory is being taught as fact then that should be addressed, and maybe intelligent design does have it's place as an alternative theory.
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Evolution is regarded as fact, the method by which it occures is the theory part. If you don't think that evolution is a fact then how do you account for new diseases becoming immune to antibiotics, or new flue strains appearing each year? There are plenty of other examples of things evolving, and this should be taught as fact in schools.
 
Because creation myths or beliefs shape a culture and its worldview. Changes in these core beliefs change the way that culture behaves and values things. That's what's at stake.

alexb said:
Here's a question:
Why the fuck are we, as a society, fixated on the Creation/Evolution bullshit? Creation/Evolution won't cure cancer, make faster computers, or put a man on Mars. It has no impact on our daily lives. Let people believe what they want and shut the fuck up.

I don't see (99.999% of) creationists saying the world is flat, gravity doesn't exist, and that science is evil. I see people wanting to believe in a different explanation of human origin which, again, has absolutely no impact on our daily lives.

This "debate" is little more than a flamewar IRL. People just need to let it go.
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BluuueJammm said:
Evolution is regarded as fact, the method by which it occures is the theory part. If you don't think that evolution is a fact then how do you account for new diseases becoming immune to antibiotics, or new flue strains appearing each year? There are plenty of other examples of things evolving, and this should be taught as fact in schools.
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I do think it is fact up to a point, but I don't know 100% about humans - there's a couple of nagging doubts about the possibility of intervention for me. I think it should be taught as the most plausible theory to date.

Great name by the way.. makes me want to d/l some old shit.. Chris Morris is a fuckin genius!
 
lazyhippy said:
If evolutionary theory is being taught as fact then that should be addressed, and maybe intelligent design does have it's place as an alternative theory.
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BluuueJammm said:
Evolution is regarded as fact, ... this should be taught as fact in schools.
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You are one definition dodging mother fucker.

Evolution, meaning change, is fact as regarded by everyone (atheist & theist). You believe evolution explains us coming from bacteria and shit, this is not a fact.

By bouncing to and fro between definitions you are holding back science due to the resistance that religion is fronting. Do you not see the damage you are doing? You're basically shooting progress in the foot because you want to get your atheistic agenda regarded as fact.

Teach the kids nothing about the origin of life and let the cards fall! The truth will come out eventually, whatever that may be.

In all honesty, the evolution argument, and science in general, is better off if you leave your 2c in your pocket.
 
Originally Posted by BluuueJammm
Evolution is regarded as fact, ... this should be taught as fact in schools.

erect said:
You are one definition dodging mother fucker.
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Heh, that's not actually what I said at all, you missed a big chunk out in the middle, I thought it was pretty clear what I said.

I can understand the problem though, a mildly interesting read if you have 5 minutes:
Evolution as theory and fact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On a slightly different note I'm not sure if most people realise how massively overwhelming the scientific consensus is on the theory of evolution (and yes, this is meant in the bacteria to man sense). You should check out somthing called Project Steve:
Project Steve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
erect said:
Teach the kids nothing about the origin of life and let the cards fall! The truth will come out eventually, whatever that may be.
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AH! Finally, someone posts some real intelligence.

My parents taught me nothing of religion and my school did not teach evolution or ID. I was forced to research everything on my own. As it turns out, I would not have it any other way and I plan on raising my kids the same.
 
Christ, what a shit storm to read through. I can't believe I made it through the entire thing without shooting myself in the face. I lost count on how many different arguments are going on. The OP's original post was obviously pushing a "documentary" that was full of propaganda (I did watch it on Netflix). There was one good question brought up in the film - should we control what scientists can work on and publish?

If something is reasonable I don't believe it should be denied. Is ID reasonable? Well, that is a tough question to answer and what brought on all this debate. It isn't based on facts and ultimately can't be tested with the technology we have available. This leads me to my opinion on it being left out of public schools. Erect made this point well. We shouldn't teach shit that isn't based on cold hard facts in public schools. That is why we have private schools. Send you kid there if you want them to learn religion. This also leads to the other side. Theories on how the universe was created should be left out if ID is left out. Unless you are presenting all sides to a debate, when it hasn't been proven, all theories should not be brought up.

BTW, I went to a private school (and no, I am not a bible thumper, quite the opposite). What do they even teach in most public schools today about the creation of the universe? Do they even touch on this?

Obviously, we have people here who believe in a "god", atheists, and people in between in this thread. I don't really think anyone is going to agree, or change anyone else's mind. Who gives a shit anyway? Let people believe what they want. I won't try and change your mind so don't try and change mine.

I think the major depate about ID vs. evolution is joke, however. I am not a scientist and didn't take anything beyond Biology 101 in college. But, from what little I have read the two aren't even comparing the same theories. The varied definition of "evolution" doesn't really help this fact and probably confuses a lot of people.

A simple defintion of evolution - Evolution is a process that resluts in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations. Note... a change in population and not an individual.

This is obviously a fact. This simple definition has been proven. As far as arguing whether Darwinism is fact is a slippery slope as well. The dude published his theories about 150 years ago. Obviously, he had some things right and some things have been proven wrong. All his theories were stepping stones to what we know today.

A simple defintion of ID - a theory of life and existence based on the idea only a super intellegence could have conceived anything as complex as the universe. Note - the idea being the "creation" of life.

The simple definition of ID is a theory based on the origins of everything and not how we ended up where we are today, which evolution concentrates on. The fact based theories of evolution start after the whole "where did we come from idea". This is why it is considered a fact and not a theory anymore. If you deny the fact that evolutions exists you are ignorant. Can you see that these are 2 completely different ideas? I just don't get how they are debated against each other all the time. Scientists will probably never know how the universe started and in no way can people who promote ID either. This question is just one of those that we will probably never know the answer to.

The argument about who is right is competely mute because the two ideas being compared aren't even the same thing. Forget the fact that ID is a "cleaver way to get religion in publis schools." This will hopefully never happen because people should be free to decide what they believe for themselves and never forced any "theories". I think you will be safe sending your kids to pubic schools even if they did teach these ideas. You just have to sit them down and discuss with them what you believe is right. There is a whole shit storm of other crap out there in schools today I would be more concerned with like drugs and sex. But I won't tell you how to raise your kids.

You can argue all you want for whatever "side" you are on but you aren't going to change anyone's mind in here. Its a waste of fucking time IMO. You are no better then the door to door religion salesman, or the overzealous athiests trying to "convert" other people to what they believe. The idea of us being able to believe what we want is one of the great things in the world. Call it cheesy but, shit, if something makes you feel more comfortable in your life then go at it. I am not going to try and drag your ass down. Also, if you want to be taken seriously when providing "solid resources on your beliefs" you better leave the Wikipedia and Youtube entries out. I saw far to many of those in this thread.

Cheers
 
Want your "missing" link between human and apes? It's not really missing: Aegyptopithecus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Read up a bit on Human evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

First bird with feathers that could fly? Archaeopteryx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Lived in the Jurassic with dinosaurs. How did feathers evolve? Feather Evolution - from Dinosaur to Bird Evolution

Eye? That's easy too: Evolution of the eye - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Evolution fixes weaknesses in existing systems, continually improving them. Take religion out of it, take politics out of it, take your personal belief systems out of it. Does it not make sense that a system would be continually trying to improve itself? Is that not one of the simplest truths?
 
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