Fucking finish this drama once and for all - VOTE and be done with it

[zimok]

i don't think you guys realize what you're asking for.

Let's calm the "drama and tears" and just focus on the core issue here. Shall we?

The issue is the conflict of interest. Whose side is Nicky on? Wickedfire members want their private data, including IPs, protected. LPLockdown customers are paying Nicky $50/month to collect this data to be used on their behalf for cloaking. They would surely want it to come from Wickedfire too, as this is perhaps the most relevant group of people to cloak against.

Nicky has to decide and declare clearly whose side he is on. Because that's what is going to determine whether he will or will not scrape IPs from mod control panel. Here are the options:

1) Step down as a mod and keep selling whatever he wants

2) Announce on his blog that LPLockdown specifically does not and will not include Wickedfire IPs, because for him his Wickedfire mod role comes first before his paying customers

3) Keep ignoring the conflict of interest and acting like a complete douchebag

So far he has been going with Option #3. Sure he has a product to sell, but what is troubling is that Mods seem to be supportive of this douchebaggery. Admins made it clear that IP collection is not OK by turning off pixels in signatures, but have not stepped in to forcefully resolve the conflict of interest. I hope everyone should realize by now that the issue will not just go away, given how this thread got inflamed after everyone thought LPLockdown drama was over.

This is not just "shades of gray that Wickedfire thrives on". This is a real issue of trust because there is conflict of interest.

First, you came back with a claim about a red herring. The position you keep promoting is both a strawman and a red herring. It doesn't address what I have said at all. In fact, it seems to completely ignore the point I have made repeatedly, and clearly.

I never claimed he should be demodded. See, the problem is, yes, we have different premises. You must not have read my post in the LP Lockdown thread, that was made directly to you, and was re-posted by someone else here.

This is the strawman. There are a couple mods who keep pushing that people are claiming something they are not. Why? I have no idea. Forget Uber, he has low impulse control (which is typically a sign of low intelligence). He doesn't represent anyone but his own butt hurt. He certainly does not represent me.

I don't care if Nicky is a mod or not. I think it is a big tactical error on his part to be indignant and taunt people without addressing the fundamental issue folks have a problem with. That of course only matters if he is going to continue to be a public persona with his blog and possibly his service offering. If he is just going to do his own thing, then he can give the world the finger. But this bad boy businessman act only works when you are already at the top and people need your connections and capital. Not when you're building your business. But that's for him to figure out. Maybe he can be the first person to make it work, and if so, my hat is off to him.

WRT to breaking the rules, can you clarify for me whether it is acceptable to put 1x1 transparent pixels in all my posts or not? If I do so from now on will I be banned?

Stanley changed the sigs but it doesn't fundamentally address what Nicky did. Was it wrong, yes or no? If no, then I assume we can all put pixels in all of our posts from now on. If yes, then where is the accountability?

I think some folks are underestimating the intelligence of people on this forum. If there was a direct, concise and clear response, then people would mumble and grumble and it would go away.

But this "run out the clock" approach to addressing if something wrong was done or not, is encouraging the criticism to persist and to spread. That's why the threads keep popping up and more people are voicing their displeasure.

Back in the day, you could count on someone like Jon to lay it down, right or wrong, in black and white. You might not agree, but Daddy said it was bedtime and that was that.

Now, when any leadership would put much of this to rest, such leadership is absent and it's predictably chaotic around here.

And lastly, the issue isn't about shady stuff on the internet. If you do shady business, that's one thing. The community norm or set of social expectations (regardless of the rules) is that people play their games elsewhere, but game players can congregate here because people don't run those games on each other at the meeting place. That's why we call out scammers here. It's understood and doesn't need to be said.

If it was otherwise, then you would expect that I could order PM spam and forum spam blasts to be targeted at WF. But we both know that you expect me not to do that here, even if I might do it elsewhere.

No one has an issue with Nicky grabbing data from Cakes chat or his blog where he makes the rules. The issue is about doing at WF, where it still remains unclear whether what he did is acceptable or not. No one has been forthcoming about what the rules are here.

If it is acceptable, then I think you will see a lot of people doing it from now on.

I gotta do some work.

Looking at this from the outside in, only going to comment on the layers of business ethics that I see here (and since this bomb started). I could care less re sides or who's who, no homo and no hate to either of you - I run a M board too and here's how I would see it:

I think you'd have to be a blind idiot not to view your token celebrity mod (or any mod) pushing product to the community for profit (through social engineering/priv. post/edit/delete advantage or without), as a conflict of interest. Especially if part of that product was derived from data collected here (where you try to sell it back but reversed/blocked/monthly to your 'peers'...).

It's like you gained my respect by default due to your little icon/mod status, then you pick pocket my dime and show me that others are doing it too, and ask for a dollar a month to protect my future quarters/change. Even if you were selling me bibles, as a mod I think that's buck that you have that priv.

I think you'd have to be really naive to be cool with ANYBODY acquiring your data for profit at a social and or online business collective, where the objective is not to sell and pad each other for profit, but where business does exist for the collective benefit, and then have it waived in your face like this was/is. It shouldn’t matter that it’s ‘just an IP’, or it’s an LP, or it’s your email or other identifier, it’s a piece of the product… Product quality and price points are also irrelevant here, that's secondary. I think the core issue, which I agree with, is someone at the top with priv. is selling something to many underneath him within the group with advantage, and with data/portion of the product acquired, engineered and taken from the very people you’re selling to. The data+being a mod+being able to sell to the community with immunity combo, is def. something I'd be concerned about, and not allow. All the extra shit and 10 threads is a bunch of WTF not business. No respect gained/lost other than thinking to myself 'yep, only at WF' click the x come back later...

Next thing you know all the mods will soon have the most uber guber products selling them to everyone else here with padding and polished reviews from their alumni, while editing posts/threads that say otherwise... Dunno, was never big on boards where people sell shit to each other through these methods and allow xx threads to continue like a soap - isn't that the other WF? Don't you guys always beat the shit out of that forum for this? This is different how? At least they smile while trying to sell you shit?

If this many people and threads bashed me/my product or my current stance and ways as a leader among a group, I would def. bow out and then peddle my wares full force in other ways, or keep mod status and stop the prod promotion here altogether, or pay for it like most merchants (not with time/modding/favors) and allow the public to be critical without edits. I can only imagine how many people 'aren't' speaking up because of the ways of this place.

If the forum owner (president) has a product(s), that's one thing, but if the mods (or political parties) have these powers too, you start to be viewed as an al gore, and or being awarded a loose no bid no conflict contract to peddle remorcelessly to your own kind, and your readers (citizens) are the suckers here buying blindly because they are defaulted to trust and look up to you (whether your product is sliced bread or shit is irrelevant imo).

Sorry if opinions expressed touch nerves with any other mods. I also think if the person is setting up an aff program while peddling that product to the group, and has no out of pocket cost for the product (small bandwidth/software), you should give your products to all your affiliates (whom you hope to make you millionz) for free, not just the bigmouths/outreach. And give your peers here a hefty discount not available anywhere else..

.02 (post saved incase it gets edited because I might have said something too..?. . ...).

Simple enough to the rest of us.

 

[hellblazer]

Simple enough to the rest of us.

lol pwned +rep

 

[barman]

:: yawn ::

 

[Koschei]

I vote to demod Nickycakes just so you leave.

LOL. Sock puppet account backfires!

 

[heavyt]

The fact of the matter is he didn't abuse his powers cause anyone could have put an image in their sig linking offsite so him being a mod didn't matter.

 

[Rage9]

The fact of the matter is he didn't abuse his powers cause anyone could have put an image in their sig linking offsite so him being a mod didn't matter.

That hasn't been the argument.

Anyone can go shit in a sink at work, but I doubt your co-workers would think to highly of you after that. That's the best analogy I could come up with off the top of my head.

Because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

[iR0ck]

after all , is it up to u guys ? I don't think so , it's at first and last up to the site staff .

so stop getting this more than it 's now , and try to calm down , or other wise it won't go with the way u think

 

[jryan21]

Wait a minute... we can shit in the sink at work?

 

[medicalhumor]

why does everyone that has issue with Nicky think that their ip address is some sacred cow that shouldn't be touched? Every website on the net has the ability to log your ip and collect them. Every damn one of them. It's not your social security number for fucks sake.
I don't quite get your analogy of shitting in a sink. If he somehow gathered your social security number, yes, that would be closer to shitting in a sink (hmmm, sorta), but it's a collection of numbers that are NOT private by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[rawbones]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

 

[Jon]

He didn't abuse his moderator power.

It was a gray area because we had disabled it in all signatures a year earlier, but it didn't include the moderator's user group, so he was still able to put it there out of an error on our part.

You may disagree with him doing so, and for that, join the club of lots of us who think it was a foolish and silly thing to do. But alas, people make mistakes. I bet all of you have made plenty of "shady" mistakes over your career in this industry, does that mean we should hate you?

If you'd like to discredit him for his actions, by all means, do so.
If you'd like to call him names and say he's evil, go for it.
If you've lost trust and respect in him for doing so, that's fine too.
You want to leave the forum and go do your own thing, good fucking luck.

But don't sit around trying to blame the forum as a whole just because you're not getting your way. You may protest this all you like, I could care less. But you're just going to make yourself look like a retard for not being able to let something go, when in truth, you had no real say or power over in the first place.

His LPLockdown service and WickedFire share no partnership or mutual interest in any way, shape or form. He's completely independent of WickedFire except that he performs his moderator duties by following our rules, which he has been doing.

So enough already. Get over it, and let it go. You guys accept getting fucked over royally by some networks and advertisers every day, and no one makes a big deal out of that, but here a moderator makes a bad judgment call and suddenly he's the enemy of the state? Puh-lease, go fuck yourself. He knows he did something dumb and he apologized to us for it.

End of story, get on with your lives.

 

[hellblazer]

He didn't abuse his moderator power.

So mods have your permission to delete posts that criticize them?

 

[heavyt]

Jon I love you.......

 

[Rage9]

why does everyone that has issue with Nicky think that their ip address is some sacred cow that shouldn't be touched? Every website on the net has the ability to log your ip and collect them. Every damn one of them. It's not your social security number for fucks sake.
I don't quite get your analogy of shitting in a sink. If he somehow gathered your social security number, yes, that would be closer to shitting in a sink (hmmm, sorta), but it's a collection of numbers that are NOT private by any stretch of the imagination.

Look we've been arguing the points of this for the last - what - 2 weeks or so?

Again, I don't think that's where the problem that people have is (and it certainly isn't mine). What you do off the forum though your own servers is your business. Hell, if he never even came out with a product I doubt anyone would have cared.

Cakes does not own WF, he is a Moderator of the forum, and as such is to be held to certain standards. Aren't Mods suppose to be members that have the best interest of the community in mind? General jackassery is all in good fun and the spirit of WF, but blantently rubbing it in the face of the community (and for profit none-the-less) is a bit overboard. He's handled it about as bad as you can handle it IMO.

If he has no problem doing such a thing to the community (and he obviously doesn't), he'll probably do it again. I don't recall anyone asking for him to be banned, we just don't trust him as a Mod anymore. It's pretty simple.

 

[Roddy]

I don't care about the IP stuff. I just think his whole attitude to it all sucks!

 

[medicalhumor]

ok, aside from the censorship issue, how have his actions negatively harmed you or anyone that has had their ip collected and added to his list, for profit or not (that is why we are all here though, to get ideas to profit)?

I'm not arguing with you, I just haven't heard from anyone clearly on how they have been harmed by this. The net result from his collecting ip's seems to only be that some people can no longer jack someone else's landing page (or at least as easily anymore). Unless you have been blocked from jacking a lander, please tell us how else you have been hurt by this. I don't get it.

Look we've been arguing the points of this for the last - what - 2 weeks or so?

Again, I don't think that's where the problem that people have is (and it certainly isn't mine). What you do off the forum though your own servers is your business. Hell, if he never even came out with a product I doubt anyone would have cared.

Cakes does not own WF, he is a Moderator of the forum, and as such is to be held to certain standards. Aren't Mods suppose to be members that have the best interest of the community in mind? General jackassery is all in good fun and the spirit of WF, but blantently rubbing it in the face of the community (and for profit none-the-less) is a bit overboard. He's handled it about as bad as you can handle it IMO.

If he has no problem doing such a thing to the community (and he obviously doesn't), he'll probably do it again. I don't recall anyone asking for him to be banned, we just don't trust him as a Mod anymore. It's pretty simple.

It's not like he was ever voted mr. congeniality before. We all have attitudes that suck sometimes.

I don't care about the IP stuff. I just think his whole attitude to it all sucks!

 

[Faust]

I think you're all gay.

 

[Rage9]

ok, aside from the censorship issue, how have his actions negatively harmed you or anyone that has had their ip collected and added to his list, for profit or not (that is why we are all here though, to get ideas to profit)?

I'm not arguing with you, I just haven't heard from anyone clearly on how they have been harmed by this. The net result from his collecting ip's seems to only be that some people can no longer jack someone else's landing page (or at least as easily anymore). Unless you have been blocked from jacking a lander, please tell us how else you have been hurt by this. I don't get it.

Frankly, it hasn't. However you or myself can't prove that in the future or in some unforeseen way that it can't/wont. Really all you have is the word of that person to go off of. If that's the kind of person you want to do business with, then by all means I'm not going to stop you.

It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

 

[popeye]

Look we've been arguing the points of this for the last - what - 2 weeks or so?

Again, I don't think that's where the problem that people have is (and it certainly isn't mine). What you do off the forum though your own servers is your business. Hell, if he never even came out with a product I doubt anyone would have cared.

Cakes does not own WF, he is a Moderator of the forum, and as such is to be held to certain standards. Aren't Mods suppose to be members that have the best interest of the community in mind? General jackassery is all in good fun and the spirit of WF, but blantently rubbing it in the face of the community (and for profit none-the-less) is a bit overboard. He's handled it about as bad as you can handle it IMO.

If he has no problem doing such a thing to the community (and he obviously doesn't), he'll probably do it again. I don't recall anyone asking for him to be banned, we just don't trust him as a Mod anymore. It's pretty simple.

Sure he will do it again and next time it will be something more valuble than an IP. Why woudn't he? Once caught, all he had to do was post his story about having to suck dick for herion and all of a sudden the sheep LOVE him again.

Fuckin idiots...

His personal attacks against members that had geunine concerns about REAL privacy on this forum is what did it for me. I could care less if he keeps his little mod title on some internet forum.

 

[medicalhumor]

of course you are entitled to your opinion. I don't dispute that. I don't own his software, and frankly I never had any interactions with him at all.
But if you just said it hasn't had any negative effect on you, and no one has shown that it has (please step forward), then why is it being viewed as such a negative thing? And if it's not, then there is no reason to believe that he will do anything to harm you or other members in the future. (aside from the censorship issue - actually hate that I agree with hellblazer on something)

Frankly, it hasn't. However you or myself can't prove that in the future or in some unforeseen way that it can't/wont. Really all you have is the word of that person to go off of. If that's the kind of person you want to do business with, then by all means I'm not going to stop you.

It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.