Going ISP-Free

You're in this game and complaining about <$100/mo for internet access and $13/night at a hotel?!?! Anyone who travels much or is a conference nut will justify $50/mo for a sprint card based on security, slow as shit free wifi, and price of hotel wifi. Anyone who values uptime and actually works online is easily going to justify $100/mo for reliable internet access. Don't be a cheapass, these are business tools, not luxuries.
 


tygoldberg said:
it's on you to secure your wifi.

stealing a purse in your car, stealing water, noy the same
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Care to expand? The original implication was that lack of security somehow negated ownership. Why is wifi different than other utilities? I can't plug an extension cord into an exterior outlet and run a hedge trimmer without being called a thief, I can't hook a hose up to a water spigot and water my grass without being called a thief, why is wifi different? The crux of BlueYonder's argument is that she didn't ask for it and they didn't secure it so why not use it? It's the utilization that is the problem. If you connect to an unsecure network but don't surf you aren't stealing anything, just like if you were to hook a hose up to a neighbor's spigot but not pump any water you aren't stealing anything. It's once you decide to consciously utilize the resource that you get into trouble. The broadcast nature of wifi precludes "not asking for it to drift into your property", and somebody being to naive to secure doesn't make it a "found resource", you have to consciously utilize the resource and that is when it turns into theft (extremely lame and petty theft but theft all the same.)
 
I think this is a good article on the subject.....

Computer World said:
There are two reasons why "stealing" Wi-Fi isn't -- or, at least, shouldn't be -- considered theft:

1. By using a Wi-Fi network you're asking for, and receiving, permission from the owner.

When you open up your trusty laptop, check for available networks, choose one and click "Connect," you're instructing your computer hardware and software to communicate with the hardware and software that's providing the Wi-Fi network and ask permission to use the network.

When you do this, a router either grants permission, and assigns an IP address for you to use, or denies permission. If the connection simply works, it means by definition that the network is set up to automatically grant you permission to use it, and to actively provide the means for you to do so. That's what "connecting to a Wi-Fi network means." Your computer works on your behalf to ask permission to use the network, and the router works on the behalf of its owner to grant that permission.

The owner of the network can choose -- and most do -- to deny permission to strangers. For example, it's common to set up a Wi-Fi network that grants permission only to specific computers, or only to users who have been given a specific password. This system is designed to automate the process of granting or denying permission.

Hacking, of course, is an entirely different matter. If someone uses password cracking tools, or hacker techniques to get into a system that is not set up to grant permission to that user, well, that's clearly unethical and should be illegal.

So attempting to connect to a Wi-Fi network (without deliberate hacking) is by definition a process of asking permission to use that network. If you get connected -- again, by definition -- then the router has granted that permission to you.

2. Your computer can't be on their Wi-Fi network unless their network is in your computer.

The conventional wisdom is that using an open Wi-Fi network is theft. The argument goes something like this. "It's my network, and my bandwidth, and by using it you're stealing. It's just like breaking into my house and eating my food. What gives you the right to use my property?"

But that metaphor doesn't match what really happens when you connect to a Wi-Fi network.

A wireless router isn't passive, or contained within the home or business of the owner. It actively broadcasts a radio signal dozens or hundreds of feet in 360 degrees. If you can see your neighbor's network on your computer, that means he's breaking into YOUR house, not that you're breaking into his. That signal penetrates your walls and your body (the full effect on health has yet to be determined conclusively) and, of course, your computer. He's affecting to a small degree what's going on inside your computer. (What gives him the right to use YOUR property?)

If you connect via the signal of your neighbor's router, you're connecting to something that is inside your home, and has been placed inside your home without your permission. So it's not like breaking into your neighbor's house to eat his food. It's more like your neighbor breaks into your house without your permission and leaves his food in your refrigerator. If you eat it, the legality or ethics of that usage or consumption is different, isn't it?

Of course, the law is the law, and using someone's Wi-Fi network has been prosecuted in the past. I'm not saying you should break the law, and "steal" bandwidth via someone else's Wi-Fi network.

But I am saying that it shouldn't be illegal to use an open Wi-Fi network, nor should it be considered unethical. I'm saying the laws should change, and our thinking about it should change, too.

If anyone doesn't want people using their network, all they have to do is configure their router to stop granting permission.

Why it's OK to 'steal' Wi-Fi - Computerworld Blogs
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You'll be happy to know that it's not theft if you're willing to give them all your personal accounts information as well as credit card numbers and such. I'm sure they're down.
 
BlueYonder said:
Thanks again, Captain Righteous. If a signal or whatever else reaches my house it's mine. Like if a neighbor's tree reaches over to my property I can trim it if I want. If the fruit of the tree falls on my side, I can keep the fruit.
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The real kicker here is that you're complaining about a small fee that is the life-blood of all INTERNET marketers on an INTERNET marketing forum, WHILE talking about buying a useless ipod touch?

Hahahahahahah, not fucking funny.

Using your logic, you'll have absolutely no problem being on the receiving end of a hard fuck in the ass will you? I hope they trim your PC to bits and keep the fruit too.
 
By using a Wi-Fi network you're asking for, and receiving, permission from the owner.

When you open up your trusty laptop, check for available networks, choose one and click "Connect," you're instructing your computer hardware and software to communicate with the hardware and software that's providing the Wi-Fi network and ask permission to use the network.
When you do this, a router either grants permission, and assigns an IP address for you to use, or denies permission. If the connection simply works, it means by definition that the network is set up to automatically grant you permission to use it, and to actively provide the means for you to do so. That's what "connecting to a Wi-Fi network means." Your computer works on your behalf to ask permission to use the network, and the router works on the behalf of its owner to grant that permission.
The owner of the network can choose -- and most do -- to deny permission to strangers. For example, it's common to set up a Wi-Fi network that grants permission only to specific computers, or only to users who have been given a specific password. This system is designed to automate the process of granting or denying permission.



So attempting to connect to a Wi-Fi network (without deliberate hacking) is by definition a process of asking permission to use that network. If you get connected -- again, by definition -- then the router has granted that permission to you.






THAT BEING SAID...


I still couldn't imagine being reliant on a neighbors wifi connection. I have 3 DSL lines for classified posting and a 18 down 3 up cable connection for torrents and gaming and browsing and pandora.... plus tether ability on my crackberry so if for some reason I cant find wifi to (lol apparently by alot of the definitions of people here) *steal* while i'm traveling or away from home.
 
barman said:
it's a fucking bucket, you idiot.
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oh thanks for clearing that up!!



ALSO:

When even leaving a note is too direct…you folks with wireless networks still named “linksys” or “trendnet” are clearly missing out on a priceless opportunity to piss off your neighbors.


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iPwnNoobs said:
I still couldn't imagine being reliant on a neighbors wifi connection. I have 3 DSL lines for classified posting and a 18 down 3 up cable connection for torrents and gaming and browsing and pandora.... plus tether ability on my crackberry so if for some reason I cant find wifi to (lol apparently by alot of the definitions of people here) *steal* while i'm traveling or away from home.
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Yes, I agree and will switch back to cable. The lack of security is too unnerving for me. See, I have a choice. There are competing providers here and I don't have to just go along with what they tell me to pay up.

I learned a lot from this discussion, and I think it's useful knowing that my neighbors have open lines that shouldn't be relied on, but they are available to tap in an emergency. I was reading that some people share their broadband with neighbors in an attempt to be neighborly, and I used to freak out when my internet went down.

Yes, their dog does shit in my yard. Good suggestion.

The über tough-talk I'm reading here is kind of amusing. More colorful metaphors about ass raping and crushed balls are appreciated.
 
My internet is going super fucking slow right now and I'm paying $60 a month for it. I'm pissed it's year 2 thousand fucking 10 and there's still noob ass connectivity issues with my ISP!
 
ThatSwissIMGuy said:
I'm happy to pay for my connection. I do all my online banking over it and there's no way I'd do that over some open network to which every idiot in the neighborhood has access.
Same goes for accessing my Sites, FTP, Prosper etc.

On top of that having to rely on someone elses connection and most probably loosing hours every week because it's down or slow seems very dumb.
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this
 
I'm stealing WIFI (right now) from my Indian nighbour, fuck 'em if they want my WF login details and my streaming porn packets.

For IM, I use my wired router. Can't trust wireless.
 
subigo said:
I would give my left nut to get FIOS for $60 a month. We don't even have the option here... Instead I have shitty mediacom "high speed cable" that goes down at least once a week and gives me 4Mbps if I'm lucky. Oh, and it costs me $60 a month.
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We pay double that in Australia for the same shitty cable connection. And usually with a download limit too.

Fucking Telstra charge you 15c per Mb if you go over the limit on some plans! I've gotten a bill for $2000 for a month once, when I left a torrent client seeding for a few days... I called them and they waived the charge, but it was a waste of two hours. They're removing those plans now because of the all the complaints on TV and in newspapers - people getting bills for 10 of thousands of dollars etc.. They basically raised the price by 7500% per Mb when you reached 60Gb.
There's a gotta be a winning business model for a rebill in there somewhere.
 
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