If you had cancer...

greenleaves said:
Open, yes.

Did he shun established medical science altogether? No.

Do you shun all established medical science altogether in favor of 'alternative medicine'? It seems so.

I think most rational beings will agree western science is so subdivided it has lost sight of the holistic way the body works. That does not mean the sub-divisions aren't VERY good at what each specializes in.

Real alternative medicine is to take all the separate and not so coordinated parts of modern medicine and unite them into a whole body theory. Not to dismiss known science for quackery. And yes, within known science there are errors, and yes within quackery there are truths, but the signal to noise ratio in modern medical science is much, much, much, almost infinitely greater.
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Not all medical science for sure. When it comes to cancer and CHD, YES. Of course not all is rubbish, but 99% of it could be (like in any other industry, there are only handful of real professionals).

If you look at this link it shows that cancer therapies are employed even when there is no sense in doing it (high costs, very low success rate, negative impact on lifestyle).

Here Industry Funding Changes Study Results, Research Shows | ucsf.edu is overview of study [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23235689] that shows sponsorship of studies have impact on results.

And in my opinion this is only tip of the iceberg. In his book
1414980049-500x500.jpg

Davin H. Newman, M.D. gives us insider look on modern medicine and how actually it works. It's all frightening to say the least.

Integrative Medicine. Now this sounds great but I don't buy it, no when it comes from mouth of people who sell chemo etc.
On the other hand like, as you have noticed, there are really crazy fuckers among alternative medicine practitioners, and they should be wasted in a hurry.
Sill, it's money money what is driving modern medicine, being profitable is always priority.

My message is, don't trust your GP (you will get this message from Newman's book and another great one "Beyond the 120 Year Diet: How to Double Your Vital Years" from Roy Walford M.D.).
 


As a programmer, I do it like this.

if a then
I live happily rest of the life.
else if c then
I live happily rest of the life.
else
I travel across the world and don't let it feel as if my life was not enough.
end if
 
nickster said:
This x100000000

I can't believe people can't see this for themselves, its so obvious.

Plus, the goodwill towards the brand would be soooooo high that they could even potentially give it away and still make billions on the back end selling all their other products to a whole new audience (not that this would ever happen :) but the brand value would SKYROCKET).
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What will happen to cancer research charities such as cancer research uk when a 'cure' is found. Will they keep receiving donations or go out of business?

What if an cancer cure is so easy anyone can do it without the need for medicine. What will happen to the stock price of the pharmaceutical company releasing that?

Lets get one thing straight. What is a cure? The requirement of a treatment to be called a cure needs to be defined. Right now there is NO TREATMENT that provides a guarantee cure, whether mainstream or alternative.

From the Op's question, there have only been one or two who has answered it. The rest is just having an argument mainstream vs alternative. Deciding on a treatment is a personal thing. There is no right or wrong about it. It's a matter of circumstances, type of cancer, how far its gone and risk management.

There are many factors to consider, but something that needs to taken account of is this. While chemotherapy may have a certain percentage to help some cases of cancer, there is a risk of causing death and guaranteed risk of damaging your body as well as prolonged pain/suffering. Look at all these cancer patients that has lost their hair, its not the cancer doing it, most if not all of the time its the chemotherapy.

So

Chemotherapy guarantees pain/suffering with a risk of death and may or may not rid you of cancer

If we look at the alternatives, there has not been one reported case where the treatment has caused the death. The deaths comes from the cancer itself if the alternative treatment is not successful. Unless you opt for some self mutilating snake oil alternative, there is no suffering or pain either.

So choosing between an alternative or mainstream (chemo, radiotherapy etc) treatment - this risk needs to be taken account of also.

On another note, I've been on a low carb, high fat diet for the past 2 months. Glucose induces so many chronic illness it's ridiculous.

I'll just leave this here:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS1Wv0ax3s0"]Low Carb Prevents Cancer in Mice - Global BC Health Headlines - Jun 20 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxhNMzIzs3M"]Starving Cancer: Ketogenic Diet a Key to Recovery - CBN.com - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIP-Fed7xNU"]Dr Richard Bernstein On High Fat, Low Carb Diets & Diabetes - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWYdHtBU9k8"](Part 1 of 2) Dr. Charles Mobbs: High-Fat, Low-Carb Ketogenic Diet For Diabetic Nephropathy - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4o-2j99a-c"]Superdrug Bacon - Ketogenic Diet Leaves 30% of Epilepsy Patients Seizure-Free - YouTube[/ame]

'Butter and cheese saved my son': Boy, 6, who used to have 300 fits a DAY has his life transformed by a high fat diet | Mail Online

Before someone claims I opted for a low carb diet by watching youtube videos, I went on to the diet after a few months of reading glucose, fat, cholesterol information as well as research studies.
 
SeoReborn said:
If we look at the alternatives, there has not been one reported case where the treatment has caused the death. The deaths comes from the cancer itself if the alternative treatment is not successful. Unless you opt for some self mutilating snake oil alternative, there is no suffering or pain either.
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Have you watched someone die from cancer (when they're not being treated?). A relative of mine had untreatable cancer, was on morphine and all kinds of anti-anxiety drugs. I've never seen someone in that much pain. They wished they could just die every day for the last few weeks of their life.

Whether you take treatment or not, you will be in pain.

In fact, if you don't accept medicine, you'll be in incomprehensible pain. I can't imagine what it'd be like without morphine.
 
SeoReborn said:
Yes I read about that before. Not all cancers cells can use this though. Besides you can't have blood glucose drop to zero, you can only reduce it.

Like I said before there are no treatments that guarantees a cure
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How is the glocuse generated by those processes different from the glucose from carbs? Remember, both are produced outside the cell that consumes it, so they must be different in some way.
 
mattseh said:
How is the glocuse generated by those processes different from the glucose from carbs? Remember, both are produced outside the cell that consumes it, so they must be different in some way.
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It is the amount of glucose that counts. If you are on a ketogenic diet, your cells uses ketones, not glucose. Any glucose produced by the above process is insignificant due to the need, and not all cancer cells can survive on such. It is correct that the glucose by that process is the same.
 
mituozo said:
Have you watched someone die from cancer (when they're not being treated?). A relative of mine had untreatable cancer, was on morphine and all kinds of anti-anxiety drugs. I've never seen someone in that much pain. They wished they could just die every day for the last few weeks of their life.

Whether you take treatment or not, you will be in pain.

In fact, if you don't accept medicine, you'll be in incomprehensible pain. I can't imagine what it'd be like without morphine.
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You got me wrong, I did not say don't take treatment (conventional or alternative).

Next thing is, if you don't take treatment and you are in pain, it is due to cancer right. That does not negate the fact that chemo causes pain and suffering when used.

Imagine a patient has cancer and is in pain. Give them chemo and increase the pain. Now this treatment may or may not work either.

Trust me I know what it's like to see someone close suffer that you wished they should be better of dead.
 
Hypothetically I'd go on a drug binge, cause who gives a fuck I'm gonna be dead anyways?

In reality I'd probably not change my routine at all and just sit at home browsing timesinks like wickedfire STS, reddit, etc.
 
out of fear of cancer i have become obsessed with it. Here are some main points.

1. What type of cancer - This is important in the sense that no matter what stage it is you have a 90 percent chance of dying. Pancreatic cancer being one of them.. panc cancer even at stage 1 your going to have 75 percent chance of being dead within 5 years. Certian type of brain tumers as well.. doesnt matter what stage ur probebly going to die.

2. Stage.. this is 2nd most important factor.. lung cancer, colon cancer, breast cancer, stomach cancer.. melanoma.. all of these will kill you easy.. BUT if you get stage 1 or 2 of any of these you have a decent chance of living. obvously stage 2 melanoma you have better ods then stage 2 stomach but you get the point..

3. Treatment - THE BEST TREATMENT without question is.... surgery.. if your cancer hasnt spread and you have surgery to remove the cancer and you get all of it.. well you probably saved your life..

4. Chemo - The problem with chemo is that a lot of poeple do chemo on stage 3/4 cancers.. its not the chemo that kills you (for the most part) its your stage 3/4 cancer that kills you and chemo isnt going to stop it.

5. Best option in the future - gene therapy and using your own immune system to kill cancer.. this is our best shot folks.. our immune system is a powefull thing.. if we can get our immune system to recognize cancer cells as being bad.. you basically have a cure for cancer. a lot of new research and great results are coming out for immune therapy cancer treatment for melanoma.. and it snot just helping people with stage 1 or 2 but stage 4! thats the game changer.
 
SeoReborn said:
What will happen to cancer research charities such as cancer research uk when a 'cure' is found. Will they keep receiving donations or go out of business?

What if an cancer cure is so easy anyone can do it without the need for medicine. What will happen to the stock price of the pharmaceutical company releasing that?

Lets get one thing straight. What is a cure? The requirement of a treatment to be called a cure needs to be defined. Right now there is NO TREATMENT that provides a guarantee cure, whether mainstream or alternative.

From the Op's question, there have only been one or two who has answered it. The rest is just having an argument mainstream vs alternative. Deciding on a treatment is a personal thing. There is no right or wrong about it. It's a matter of circumstances, type of cancer, how far its gone and risk management.

There are many factors to consider, but something that needs to taken account of is this. While chemotherapy may have a certain percentage to help some cases of cancer, there is a risk of causing death and guaranteed risk of damaging your body as well as prolonged pain/suffering. Look at all these cancer patients that has lost their hair, its not the cancer doing it, most if not all of the time its the chemotherapy.

So

Chemotherapy guarantees pain/suffering with a risk of death and may or may not rid you of cancer

If we look at the alternatives, there has not been one reported case where the treatment has caused the death. The deaths comes from the cancer itself if the alternative treatment is not successful. Unless you opt for some self mutilating snake oil alternative, there is no suffering or pain either.

So choosing between an alternative or mainstream (chemo, radiotherapy etc) treatment - this risk needs to be taken account of also.
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You logic facilities are broken. Lets end it there.
 
SeoReborn said:
What if an cancer cure is so easy anyone can do it without the need for medicine. What will happen to the stock price of the pharmaceutical company releasing that?
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It's still possible to patent medicine even if its derived from herbal or natural products. 60% of the drugs we have today were derived from natural products.
 
robbie222 said:
It's still possible to patent medicine even if its derived from herbal or natural products. 60% of the drugs we have today were derived from natural products.
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A lot of drugs come about by researching the chemical actions of nature. There are also herbal/vitamin mixes with specific amounts that has been patented. What people have done in this case is buy the individual components and put it together themselves. I've seen that happen.

Bedsides an patent gives 20 years of protection, not forever. The company may attempt to reset the patent clock on the specific forms of the compound and these can be targeted for invalidation by other manufacturers.
 
SeoReborn said:
No it's not. So I guess you aren't able to answer those questions that I poised properly. That's fine.

If you wanna have a debate about logical fallacies, go ahead.
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What, you mean questions like "What will happen to cancer research charities such as cancer research uk when a 'cure' is found. Will they keep receiving donations or go out of business?"

What a ridiculous question. Why the fuck would massive pharma companies give a shit about cancer research charities??? What was that question supposed to insinuate? What, cancer research UK have any control over whether a cure is found or not, and if and when its found what is done with that cure?

You sir are an idiot
 
nickster said:
What, you mean questions like "What will happen to cancer research charities such as cancer research uk when a 'cure' is found. Will they keep receiving donations or go out of business?"

What a ridiculous question. Why the fuck would massive pharma companies give a shit about cancer research charities??? What was that question supposed to insinuate? What, cancer research UK have any control over whether a cure is found or not, and if and when its found what is done with that cure?

You sir are an idiot
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When all else fails resort to name calling. Happens a lot for those who can't hold their ground properly. So this is the logical fallacies you were talking about. There must be more right, as you said fallacies, not fallacy. Before I answer, tell me any other fallacies on my previous post.
 
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