Israel just shot up the aide ships in international waters, at least 20 dead.
- Thread starter werdnax
- Start date
So far i haven't seen anywhere that they had automatic weapons. You made that assumption based on the fact that IDF soldiers carry M16's in general. You even tried to calculate how many automatic rounds must have been shot. It was pretty delusional considering you convinced yourself they had automatic weapons when every account and video shows they didn't.
In fact, in this mission their primary weapons were PAINTBALL guns (you can even see them in the video). Their secondary weapons, which were only drawn after they were attacked, were pistols.
It's quite clear have have a strong biased against Israel from the start of this thread and refuse to place one ounce of blame on the people who initiated the violence by attacking them. If the boat followed Israels orders not to attempt to break their blockade, they would not have had to attempt to board the ship.
If the protesters had no violent intentions why did they bring tons of slingshots with glass marbles and knives? And don't give me the Slingshot vs. Automatic weapons arguments because 1. there were no automatic weapons, it was really slingshots vs. paintball guns and 2. if they were "peaceful" protesters why did they need any form of weapon at all? And yes, slingshots with glass marbles can kill people and seriously wound them.
So i'm not sure if you're anti-Semitic, or just anti Israel from a political standpoint, but you clearly have a strong bias against Israel and refuse to even acknowledge the video that clearly shows the Israeli commandos being Brutally attacked before they even set foot on the boat.
Here is an interesting account of what happened from an Israeli source: A brutal ambush at sea - Israel News, Ynetnews
I know you won't credit it, but considering you posted a video from the radical islamic nutcases who support hamas and were violating the blockade, i think it's fair to post this.
yes we covered that part....try keeping up
Israel initiated violence by trying to hijack a humanitarian ship in international waters. If Israel didn't try hijacking the ship, no violence would happen. If Israel wasn't starving Palestinians half to death, no ship would be needed to bring in the supplies.
So let me repeat this a hundredth time...Israel had no authority to board the ship. Boarding a ship in international waters is considered an invasion of soverign soil...in this case turkey. So by internatioanl law..Israel shot a bunch of Turkish civilians on Turkish soil.
how about self defense? And did you look at the knives? It's cutlery for fucks sake.
fine, slingshots against handguns. Not that much better. Here is a point...these guys could have been armed with AK47s and it wouldn't matter...in INTERNATIONAL WATERS...Israel has no rights to board a ship.
ISRAEL...BROKE....THE...FUCKING...LAW
So you would be ok with having someone break into your house, and then when you hit them in self defense, you are fine with them shooting you in the head?
So once again...ISRAEL...BROKE....THE...FUCKING...LAW
1. Israeli sources are by default biased. There is a reason this crime was condemned WORLD WIDE...not a SINGLE country defended Israel's actions. 2. Once again, none of this shit matters...these guys broke international law by boarding the ship, the people on the ship had full right(according to international law) to open up with AK47s and kill every single one of the Israelis. And by international law, they wouldn't be arrested. If Israel didn't provoke them by trying to hijack the ship, noone would have gotten hurt. They had no weapons to hit any of the Israeli ships.
I posted a video of a reporter from a major news organization shooting live footage, you posted a story by the FOX News of Israel. Kinda different don't you think?
DOES NOT MATTER.
You are not allowed to board a ship in international waters. They could have been carrying cases of AK47s and rockets for Hamas...legally Israel couldn't do shit, until the ship was in Israeli waters.
The only way they could have done this legally. Is if they declared war against Gaza and stopped the ship with their Gazan blockade.
To stop a ship in international waters, like they did here, they would have had to go even further and would have needed to request the option to board ships in international waters from the UN
except they didn't have weapons, this was confirmed by inspectors before they set out.
except this wasn't a road block, since Israel had no jurisdication in the area. No they were carrying such forbidden materials as concrete, chocholate and paper. Those animals! Don't they know that the same paper that can be used for printing books, can be used to make a paper airplane?
except they didn't beat you up, they killed you, and a bunch of your friends in the car.
anyways I'm done for the day...this thing will last for a while...and eventually Israel would have to decide, whether to start war(most likely turkey, since they want to escort the next shipment) or to lift the blockade.
I can only go off the video I seen...they had weapons and attacked the IDF. Do I believe the inspectors...about as much as I believe the facist government that we have in place at the moment.
The terrorist were warned to stay away...they didn't and idiots got capped. Moral to this story...when a millitary that you have commited terrorism against warns you to stay away....you stay away.
As I said originally your only point of contention is that it happened in international waters.and it's just a dumb argument. They were coming into Israeli waters, they weren't going on a cruise. Israel wasn't unsure if they were going to come into Israeli water space, it was an absolute fact and reality on the ground that that's what they were about to do. The international waters argument simply falls apart once they reached isral waters, so israel pre emptied them and broke the law in doing so.
And.....?
You think it's ok to force a sovereign country to stop a blockade through threat of war but it's not okay to enforce the blockade.
Admit you really just want Israel to get nuked by Iran so that those pesky Jews can finally stop causing harm and stopping the world getting on and being all peaceful.
And.....?
You think it's ok to force a sovereign country to stop a blockade through threat of war but it's not okay to enforce the blockade.
Admit you really just want Israel to get nuked by Iran so that those pesky Jews can finally stop causing harm and stopping the world getting on and being all peaceful.
I doubt Turkey will be starting a regional war right now to force an end to the blockade, i doubt they want so much world exposure, especially since they can't get into the EU do to the fact that they are illegally occupying SOVEREIGN Cyprus. And thats asides from all our Armenian brothers feelings.
And to add some perspective to that, i doubt Turkey would allow a Cypriot and Greek flotilla to break the blockade they have on the their hold on Cyprus.
Anyone who doesn't know much about this situation, can be assured that there is no Cypriot in the WORLD who wants Turkey to continue to OCCUPY North Cyprus.
The Cypriots are not a danger to Turkey sovereignty, they haven't declared war, nor do they fire rockets.
Concrete is not allowed into Gaza because HAMAS won't allow the citizens to get their hands on it.... they keep a stronghold on ALL concrete for military purposes, in order to advance their war machine.
Israel does not occupy the border between Egypt and Gaza.
Egypt is free to help Gaza rebuild itself.
But Egypt is too busy protecting its borders from those pesky gazans who are trying to escape Hamas.
If you want to see a different side to Israel, read about the thousands of refugees from Africa (Muslim North Africa) that are currently living AND WORKING in Israel. Those are the ones that managed to escape the Egyptian bullets in Sinai (after the Jihad against them in their home cities.)
The flotilla had a political goal - to break the blockade. This was their primary goal, and they stated it repeatedly. The aid which Israel repeatedly offered to allow in to Gaza (minus the concrete or anything else that Hamas is using for its war-machine) through the correct channels as it does every day. But they refused - their goal was political, and thats why they forged ahead in complete denial of any sovereign rights to break the blockade.
The soldiers had to receive permission to use live fire - this was given AFTER shots were fired on deck from the activists.
Israel has peace now with Egypt for 31 years. Israel has not occupied Gaza for coming on 4 years now. In 4 years they could have built trade agreements with Egypt, and through Egypt with all of their Arab brothers, and with the millions of dollars that poured into Gaza for industry and infrastructure in the first year they could have multiplied it numerous times and built a thriving economy. Here is your chance for peace. Grab it and build a life for yourselves. Israel has friendly borders with Egypt and Jordan it isnt unimaginable - its very possible - the main tragedy for the Palestinians is that they never had responsible leaders. The proof of that is in the 1.5 or so million Israeli Arabs - who were they to be given the choice - Israel or Palestine - pick a citizenship - would pick Israel under the current state of affairs.
So to complete this picture you have two separate authorities, Hamas and Fatah. One rules the North and one rules the South. In a violent war 2 years ago Hamas overthrew and killed as many Fatah as they could in order to gain complete control of Gaza. Fatah has refused every offer Israel ever gave it constantly moving the goal posts. Hamas has refused to even accept Israel period.
Fatah hate Hamas, Hamas hate Fatah.
So who is Israel making peace with ?
Awe shit, it's the 1st ... time for Ban Somebody June Edition.
werdnax ... your days are numbered because you keep making the same stupid argument over and over that keeps getting shot down (by paintball guns nonetheless). You're the equivalent of the kid with his fingers in his ears so you can't hear what you don't like.
nanananananananananaI'mnotlisteningtoyounanananananan
werdnax ... your days are numbered because you keep making the same stupid argument over and over that keeps getting shot down (by paintball guns nonetheless). You're the equivalent of the kid with his fingers in his ears so you can't hear what you don't like.
nanananananananananaI'mnotlisteningtoyounanananananan
San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea - Article 67:
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
CAMERA: Israel’s right to blockade Gaza and to interdict shipping
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
CAMERA: Israel’s right to blockade Gaza and to interdict shipping
Fuck you, terrorist sympathizer! Shit yourself all you want, Israel will enforce the blockade and stop any fucktard who intends to violate its borders.
Follow 1 Simple Rule: OBEY Israel!
^^^^ This!
Ok, werdnax, so what's your new argument? Lemme guess, the zionist regime has no right to make a blockade therefore the Turks were allowed to try and break it, therefore when israel tried to legally defend it's blockade it was unfair therefore the turks had the right to attack first and the IDF did not have the right to fight back therefore the israelis committed as massacre?
So proud of our IDF guys
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9p5QT91QYs"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9p5QT91QYs"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]
I'm actually amazed how many of you guys are siding with Israel on this - besides the usual Popeye and Hellblazer fanboys. With all the resources at their command, they choose to attack a peaceful flotilla with many different nationalities on board, in the middle of the night, with lethal force used and shockingly poor tactical planning.
Why didn't they use their navy ships as a physical blockade and deterrent?
Why drop soldiers one by one on to the ship deck swarming with lightly armed civilians?
Why not pull a warship alongside so they can board easier and have a better overview.
These are just some of the questions that go through my mind on just this scenario.
Besides the fact this whole action was probably illegal, the basic planning failures that went into this operation should be grounds for criminal charges. So what if the civilians have very primitive and improvised weapons - there is no excuse for military personnel to be using live weapons on them or to be put in situation which requires it.
Dick's like hellblazer and popeye need to stop calling everyone who doesn't agree with their views a terrorist. It's pointless even debating with you guys because you have such a blinkered view of the world and love using buzzwords like that to justify your point. These ships were full of aid workers, journalists and civilians trying to deliver humanitarian supplies to Gaza.
I wouldn't trust Israel to effectively deliver all of the supplies on to Gaza. Even now it is only sending a quarter of the necessary supplies into this occupied territory. If the ship were to dock in an Israeli port I could bet some dirty politics would get involved anyway. E.g: "Oh yes, we did agree to send ALL of the supplies off your ships on to Gaza, we're just doing it at a rate of one ton per day".
Frankly I'm sick to death of Israel. They act like they're the repressed people yet the tables turned long ago - now you're just the aggressor, occupier and inciter. Congrats on whooping all those enemies that surround you but don't think the world has an endless supply of sympathy for you. America is already distancing itself from you and there are a hell of a lot of people rooting for your blood throughout the middle east.
I see Israel ending up in a very bad position soon and all your technology, manpower and brains may not be able to save you.
Why didn't they use their navy ships as a physical blockade and deterrent?
Why drop soldiers one by one on to the ship deck swarming with lightly armed civilians?
Why not pull a warship alongside so they can board easier and have a better overview.
These are just some of the questions that go through my mind on just this scenario.
Besides the fact this whole action was probably illegal, the basic planning failures that went into this operation should be grounds for criminal charges. So what if the civilians have very primitive and improvised weapons - there is no excuse for military personnel to be using live weapons on them or to be put in situation which requires it.
Dick's like hellblazer and popeye need to stop calling everyone who doesn't agree with their views a terrorist. It's pointless even debating with you guys because you have such a blinkered view of the world and love using buzzwords like that to justify your point. These ships were full of aid workers, journalists and civilians trying to deliver humanitarian supplies to Gaza.
I wouldn't trust Israel to effectively deliver all of the supplies on to Gaza. Even now it is only sending a quarter of the necessary supplies into this occupied territory. If the ship were to dock in an Israeli port I could bet some dirty politics would get involved anyway. E.g: "Oh yes, we did agree to send ALL of the supplies off your ships on to Gaza, we're just doing it at a rate of one ton per day".
Frankly I'm sick to death of Israel. They act like they're the repressed people yet the tables turned long ago - now you're just the aggressor, occupier and inciter. Congrats on whooping all those enemies that surround you but don't think the world has an endless supply of sympathy for you. America is already distancing itself from you and there are a hell of a lot of people rooting for your blood throughout the middle east.
I see Israel ending up in a very bad position soon and all your technology, manpower and brains may not be able to save you.
Threadjack attempt
Is it just me or does anybody else find babe's with guns such a turn-on