Lol, another "flotilla love boat" headed for Gaza. Gonna try and break the blockade..

popeye said:
Concrete, steel, building materials can be used to reinforce bunkers, rocket bases and smuggling tunnels. The more "harmless" items such as butter and so forth is used by the terrorist group Hamas to trade on the black market for more millitary worthy items.
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LOL...

Hamas imports weapons from Egypt. How many arms dealers do you know that would trade a truck load of butter for a rocket launcher?

popeye said:
A blockade is designed to not only keep millitary items out but to also make it hard on the citizens that put this terrorist group in power. This is the case with MANY blockades conducted by MANY countries. You make it hard on the citizens and they finally get sick of it and kick the terrorist out of power.
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Not only is collective punishment a war crime under the Geneva convention but it downright morally unfair to deny aid and economic development to 1.5 million people for the actions of their government.

I've heard this excuse over and over for years and the only thing I see the blockade doing is making Hamas even more powerful.
 


I'm a muslim, and I have absolutely nothing against Jews. In fact, I got friends and people I do business with from Israel.
This shit has nothing to do with religion, killing civilians is not acceptable regardless of your religion. Fuck Zionists, and fuck Hamas.

But to be honest, attacking civilians in Israel is retarded in the first place. It's what got Gaza to where it's at atm.

Just my 2c.
 
morphy said:
I'm a muslim, and I have absolutely nothing against Jews. In fact, I got friends and people I do business with from Israel.
This shit has nothing to do with religion, killing civilians is not acceptable regardless of your religion. Fuck Zionists, and fuck Hamas.

But to be honest, attacking civilians in Israel is retarded in the first place. It's what got Gaza to where it's at atm.

Just my 2c.
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Guys I would ask morphy all your questions from here on. He has the most balanced opinion I have ever seen of the issue, one I have followed for 20 years.

Morphy pwns you white hippie fools because he comes at it without political biases. E.G. Obamunists here will always side with Hamas. And Morphy correctly understands that groups like Hamas victimize the Palestinian people much more than they do the Israelis. The Palestinians are indeed occupied: by Iran.

If you are a Palestinian who says 'no' to Hamas, you kiss your ass goodbye. And in a lot worse ways than suicide bombing, which is at least quick.

For decades the Palestinians and Israelis lived side by side in cooperation, without a Gaza or other security zones. Until outsiders decided to exploit the Palestinians and use them as cannon fodder for their own political gain. This started with Fatah in the seventies, and from then on the standard of living in Palestine slid downhill.

The Palestinians receive most of their aid from Israel, the US and the UN. There is no urgent humanitarian aid problem in the Palestinian territories. If there were, we would hear about it and do something.

However there is a blockade of unapproved, illegal shipping, and always has been - the same as any country. Yet every day, the port admits many of tons daily in aid shipments.

Again, kudos to Morphy for balls big enough to see both sides of the issue.
 
My wife's best friend is married to a Palestinian Christian. He's about 35 and came over with his mother ten years ago. They were able to get a US asylum visa, but the father is still there.

Hamas came to their house in Gaza to 'appropriate' it for the government. This means the house was to be used to either build rockets, suicide explosives or to launch rockets from. They are constantly switching houses because the IDF finds them pretty quick. There is no more private ownership of homes in the Pal territories. Hamas claims eminent domain over it all. So you are considered to be squatting in your own home.

They don't know what happened to the house, but the father was able to stay with other families there and is still trying to get into the US.
 
timtim said:
thats absolutely right, but our gov. is working hard to make the necessary changes to change this big gap atleast a little. It is natural people wants a better life, doesnt matter if muslim, christian, jewish, budist or ateist...everyone deserves a better life and standards.
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Wait, why is that the government's job? Why isn't it up to the people to choose the standard in which they live their own lives?

At what point does someone have a "better life?" It would look to me based on Erects pictures that the slums of the U.S are five star hotels compared to the slums of other countries. So would you say that our government has already given them a better life? So when do they stop?

"Better life" is always going to be relative among classes in the country you live in. So as a society as a whole improves it's quality of life, the people on the lower end of the spectrum will always need more from the government to attain this "better quality of life" you speak of...
 
rgordon83 said:
Hamas gets butter

Hamas sells butter on black market at unfair prices to the citizens that it claims to have their best interest.

Hamas uses money to buy weapons.

Really not that hard to follow....
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it's ridiculous to restrict the flow of food like that to people based on the assumption that Hamas will get it and use it to get weapons - period...Especially considering the more rare food supplies become the more $ they're worth.

But enough with this hypothetical situation because its completely ridiculous. When you're backed by Iran a shortage of weapons is the last thing you'll have to worry about.
 
Andrew Scherer said:
it's ridiculous to restrict the flow of food like that to people based on the assumption that Hamas will get it and use it to get weapons - period...Especially considering the more rare food supplies become the more $ they're worth.

But enough with this hypothetical situation because its completely ridiculous. When you're backed by Iran a shortage of weapons is the last thing you'll have to worry about.
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How you made it through several banning threads really boggles my mind. You really are a grade A dumbass.
 
popeye said:
How you made it through several banning threads really boggles my mind. You really are a grade A dumbass.
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Pot-calling-the-kettle-black-734818.jpg
 
ya'll missing the point. Loveboats at parades are usually boats full of hot women in bikinis blasting house music. If they have some good food and diapers stored, whats wrong about that?
 
rgordon83 said:
Well the weapons have to get their somehow, right? Hence the blockade...
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And is it working ? Considering they even smuggle cars through tunnels and all..

"Tunnel owners are now required to pay hundreds of dollars for licenses, giving Hamas badly needed revenue and the entrepreneurs a veneer of political legitimacy. Earlier this year, Hamas imposed taxes on smuggled goods, including fuel, to help pay its burgeoning salary bill."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/06/gaza-blockade-black-economy-hamas

popeye said:
How you made it through several banning threads really boggles my mind. You really are a grade A dumbass.
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Oh the irony - it's killing me
 
Andrew Scherer said:
And is it working ? Considering they even smuggle cars through tunnels and all..
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It works pretty well, yes. It's hard to stop everything. Without the blockade however, qassams would rain over Sderot and Ashkelon.. maybe even Tel Aviv.
 
pat J said:
It works pretty well, yes. It's hard to stop everything. Without the blockade however, qassams would rain over Sderot and Ashkelon.. maybe even Tel Aviv.
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Qassams already rain over those towns - they are largely manufactured in Gaza I think.

Hopefully Israel will be quick in setting up the anti-missle defense we've helped fund and the dumbass shit Hamas can do will be limited.

With no more missles Israel wouldn't have any more reasons to keep the blockade up.

Problem is - the longer it stays up the more Israel loses support from Europe UN and other organizations. And as that happens, Iran puts its foot in the door more and more. That's not good for anybody.

Case in point: Iran ready to escort Gaza mercy missions.
 
Andrew Scherer said:
And is it working ? Considering they even smuggle cars through tunnels and all..

"Tunnel owners are now required to pay hundreds of dollars for licenses, giving Hamas badly needed revenue and the entrepreneurs a veneer of political legitimacy. Earlier this year, Hamas imposed taxes on smuggled goods, including fuel, to help pay its burgeoning salary bill."

Gaza blockade is a blessing for the black economy ? and for Hamas | World news | The Observer



Oh the irony - it's killing me
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Hell yeah it's working. Just because you can't get every single weapon doesn't mean it's not working.

That's like saying that because their is heroin in the US that the govt should totally shut down the patrol and stop having drug dogs in the airport and stop inspecting cargo from suspicious countries.


In regards the the link, the whole premise of that article is restarted. It basically says that Hamas is profiting from the black market created by the blockade. No shit they are. But imagine how much more they would be profiting if they ruled over a real economy. The article makes it seem like they are forced to steal from Gazans because of the blockade. But that's crap. They steal from the Gazans blockade or not, they just get a lot less with the blockade. Arafat stole many many millions from the Palestinians when their was no blockade. So now Hamas is just able to steal less.

That article also shows how stupid the citizens of Gaza are. If the blockade is there to prevent hamas from attacking israel, and hamas is there b/x the gazans elceted them (and they killed more Fattah people then Fattah could kill Hamas), then why turn to black market activities that keep hamas in power? If they are really that desperate, why not get rid of their terrorist government so the blockade is gone and they can go back to the amazing economy that the writer of that article was talking about?
 
rgordon83 said:
If they are really that desperate, why not get rid of their terrorist government so the blockade is gone and they can go back to the amazing economy that the writer of that article was talking about?
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Isn't it funny America will travel across the globe to spread democracy in the name of freedom and warm apple pie...

but when someone gets elected that we don't agree with then we rationalize to ourselves that it's OK to economically crush, collectively punish, and ruin the lives of 1.5 million people because of the actions of the ruling party.
 
Well, if a country vote to kill Americans, it's no wonder that American react appropriately. It's like me promoting rational thinking. If thief rationally think that they can get away with stealing my money, I got millions of thieves conviction record on the net.

That being said Palestines are indeed Arab's cannon fodder. Arab kicked Jewish refuge that got accepted by Israel. Then Palestinians refugees are not accepted anywhere by the Arabs under the pretext of helping them? Help my ass. You kick people out, you accept some in return.

Not only that, Palestinians are actually quite blood related with the Jews according to DNA tests. That makes sense. If you want to find out descendants of people that used to live in a certain place, then most likely you'll find it in the same exact place.

Palestinians are just Jews that don't travel around or would rather switch their religions instead of their countries. Well the religions don't differ a lot anyway.

Also both Christians and Muslims claim that their religions are the one that match the original religion of Israel. Who knows which one is right?

So in a sense, Judaism are just a version of old Judaism that don't sell :) The difference between different branch of Judaisms, like between saducee and pharish is greater than the difference between Christianity and Rabinical Judaism nowadays anyway.

If I were a Palestinians, I would work with Jewish refugee to demand all confiscated land to be returned or compensated. Ally with Israel to kick arab's butt.
 
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