Lol, another "flotilla love boat" headed for Gaza. Gonna try and break the blockade..

[Dispel]

Your example is much different than the Isreal example. Kosovo and Serbia was 2 states in Yugoslavia....and after each of these states announced their independecy, the Serbs just thought is the right time maybe to expand "their country" while everything is yet "so fresh". I know, the topic here is not religion, but Who was again on the trigger?...muslims...right? Serbian snipers hunted muslims on the streets like dogs for months. Not sure if you know, but Serbs got their ass sued and payed for what they did there.

Kosovo was NEVER a state in Yugoslavia. Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia were. Again, the Serbs 'expanding their country' is yet again a gross misrepresentation of history. The UN (US) stepped in and forcibly removed a chunk of Serbia from it. Whatever the justifications, and whether they are correct or not, thats a fact.

This is not a place for a debate on Kosovo, but just quickly. Yes, there was discrimination against the Albanians. But they then organised the KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) who were helped by transnational jihadist groups and started a campaign of terror against the Serbs, committing some of the worst war crimes I've ever heard of. Like kidnapping Serbs and locking them up for organ harvesting, chopping them up with no anestethic, leaving to bleed to death, until there was nothing left to sell. Not that this in any way justifies the Serb's war crimes, but it certainly was not all the Serbs wrongdoing.

Many sides in those conflicts were guilty of war crimes - the KLA, the Croatian militias, the Bosnian Serb militias, the Bosniak militias, the Serbia army.

You want other examples of recently shifting border and occupations? Here you go: South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transdniestria, Nagorno-Karabakh, Northern Cyprus, Southern Sudan (potential), East Timor.
Thats without even going back as far as WW2, after Israel was created. A lot of European borders changed then.
All those are different and complex situations. These things happen, rightly or wrongly. Its justifiable in wartime to seize territory and keep it - in Israel's case it was the only way to guarantee security.


Surveying the current conflicts around the world the IDF looks like just about the most humanitarian army in the world, while they're to defend their people. Yet in other places there are active campaigns of genocide, people dying by the 10000's, but all the attention is absorbed here, while there's not a peep about the slaughter in Chechnya, Darfur, the Congo, Tibet, Kurdistan, North Korea's belligerence, etc etc

Two wrongs don't make a right, certainly, and if you feel Israel is doing the wrong thing fine, but get it right. Saying they're the most 'barbaric' regime or whatever other garbage and are as bad as nazis just makes you look stupid and ignorant and exposes you for the useful idiot you really are (that was not aimed at you timtim, I don't think you said that- but others have).



Apologies for getting off topic. This guy has the knowledge and understanding of history and geopolitics somewhere on par with his 6 old.

 

[Andrew Scherer]

and look at all the aid the Israelis are constantly delivering - there is no shortage of food or medical supplies and there is no 'collective punishment':

Behind the Headlines: The Israeli humanitarian lifeline to Gaza

Coriander is apparently more dangerous than cinnamon.

Also on the banned list includes notebooks and school supplies and interestingly enough your source, Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, claims:

Israel transfers school equipment supplied by UNRWA including notebooks, school bags, writing implements and textbooks.

Hmm

Israel is currently coordinating the transfer of 200,000 laptops for Gaza children

Wow that's awesome so the UN raises the money for all of these laptops, Israel permits the laptops to go through the blockade and then claims responsibility for the generous deed. That's respectable.

lol could you get a source a bit more biased please?

Instead of patting them on the back for what they actually let in let's actually focus on the essential non-military supplies that they arbitrarily reject at the blockade.

 

[timtim]

Surveying the current conflicts around the world the IDF looks like just about the most humanitarian army in the world, while they're to defend their people. Yet in other places there are active campaigns of genocide, people dying by the 10000's, but all the attention is absorbed here, while there's not a peep about the slaughter in Chechnya, Darfur, the Congo, Tibet, Kurdistan, North Korea's belligerence, etc etc

if you can find and show me that country (in bold and color) on the map, i will agree with anything you say, and i will post here a reply with "Sory people...i am a big idiot"

 

[Dispel]

oh, ok...we got it now...Tel Aviv can own such missiles to be able to easy kick some butt in the area, but others cant...what makes them so special?...is Isreal an "authority" and the "police" of ME?

See now you're just being a retard for the sake of being a retard.


But yes. Yes you are absolutely right. Hezbollah and Hamas have just as much right as the Israeli state and the IDF to own long range missiles. Oh, and nukes, of course. They need them to self-defence and 'peace keeping'. All the better they both have declared that their stated goal is the desctruction of the state of Israel - we must be culturally sensitive in these immoral times and for the sake of balance and fairness give them all the weapons they want! How dare Israel try to disarm enemies actively dedicated to its destruction. Barbarians! Nazis! The UN should hear about this! Hell, give Hamas and Hezbollah a seat on the Security Council. That would be 'fair' right?

"Tel Aviv can own such missiles". Yeah, don't think Tel Aviv owns any missiles, buddy.

And yes, Israel is the 'authority' in their own territory. And if neighbours attack them have the right for self-defense too. As for you 'you', dont know are an arms dealer or something? Why do you need to be 'policed' to stop Hamas from buying murder toys?

 

[Dispel]

if you can find and show me that country (in bold and color) on the map, i will agree with anything you say, and i will post here a reply with "Sory people...i am a big idiot"

What? My posts says 'other places', not 'other countries'. Like Kurdistan.

But by singling out Kurdistan in my post you only make yourself look stupid.

Because you know Chechnya is not a country, right?

You know Darfur, is not a country, right?

You know Tibet is not a country, right?

You know. Like Gaza (not a country!) And Kurdistan.

 

[pat J]

Well the blockade's primary purpose wasn't to stop weapons it was to topple Hamas - it didn't work. With an anti-missle defense system I see less conflict.

Possibly. But the blockade needs to remain as long as hamas is shooting missiles. In time, maybe they will mature and give in or be toppled by the population. Besides... an anti-missile system will not stop mortars afaik.

Your claim that Israel will be thrown to the dogs and wiped off the map if the blockade is lifted is statistically ridiculous... Look at the invasion of 2009 - casualties were 1 Israeli for 100 Palestinians.

That's not even close to what i said or meant, and you know it. The attacks on Israel would increase dramatically though. Again, what do you think would happen? What would Hamas do if the blockade is lifted?

The number of deaths means nothing. What matters is, who would kill the most if they had the power to do so? Hamas would kill all the jews, israel would kill no palestinian unless they were attacked. The numbers of dead palestinians is mainly Hamas fault. They place weapon storages next to schools and hospitals. They also shoot qassams from there. Not to mention that they use civilians as human shields.

 

[babylonian]

LOL@timtim for not knowing the difference from his head to his ass! And he says also, a bit of history digging, HAHAHAHAHA. Oh man, where do you get your history from???

 

[timtim]

What? My posts says 'other places', not 'other countries'. Like Kurdistan.

But by singling out Kurdistan in my post you only make yourself look stupid.

Because you know Chechnya is not a country, right?

You know Darfur, is not a country, right?

You know Tibet is not a country, right?

You know. Like Gaza (not a country!) And Kurdistan.

Yep, you right, it says places...i am big idiot.

I am located in Turkey, now dont claim from the other side of the planet you know much about whats going on in this area...watching news and reading newspaper doesnt make you intelligent. I will tell you now what i really know:

I am muslim, I live in apartment...My neighbour is Armenain, The mornings i shop fresh bread from Greek backer, I shop fruits and vegitables from a small shop behing the appartment owned by Jewish guy, 2 blogs far from where i live there is church and mosque next to eachother, i play every day backgammon with the rabbi for 2 hours.

...the question is...do you think all this people that live here together are fighting eachother...killing eachother?

In general...what i mean is, it is not the folks that are doing wrong, this are the governments that follow wrong politics and it is the folks duty to change this!...i dont hate my Armenian neighbour, i like the fresh vegitables of the Jewish guy...see my point? it is time, the UN and the rest of the world do something to fix the whole human tragedy there

 

[timtim]

LOL@timtim for not knowing the difference from his head to his ass! And he says also, a bit of history digging, HAHAHAHAHA. Oh man, where do you get your history from???

not from shit writen and published by Mosat.

 

[popeye]

Im pretty sure this is a media fabrication but its been years since i've seen it or researched those clips

how could I forget that fat lady chortling

Dancing in the street after 9/11 was reported in almost ALL muslim countries to some extent. Why do terrorist sympathizers/socialist/biggots/communiest like yourself always resort to "WELL THE VIDEO WAS FABRICATED" when the facts are stuffed down your vagina.

 

[babylonian]

what is Mosat, genius?

Your location is not far from truth, you know nothing about this world

 

[timtim]

what is Mosat, genius?

Your location is not far from truth, you know nothing about this world

lets first hear your opinion about the topic...if you have one of course.

 

[Dispel]

Yep, you right, it says places...i am big idiot.

I am located in Turkey, now dont claim from the other side of the planet you know much about whats going on in this area...watching news and reading newspaper doesnt make you intelligent. I will tell you now what i really know:

I am muslim, I live in apartment...My neighbour is Armenain, The mornings i shop fresh bread from Greek backer, I shop fruits and vegitables from a small shop behing the appartment owned by Jewish guy, 2 blogs far from where i live there is church and mosque next to eachother, i play every day backgammon with the rabbi for 2 hours.

...the question is...do you think all this people that live here together are fighting eachother...killing eachother?

Sounds great. Never said people in Turkey are killing each other.

You'll find it similar in Israel. European Jews, Arabs, Lebanese, Ethiopian Jews mostly living peacefully together. I am in Australia its one of the most multi-cultural places on earth. I have quite a few Turkish friends, actually.

But then there is historical treatment of the Kurd by the Turkish state, although it as cooled for lately, there are still attacks, even cross-border incursions and air raids into Northern Iraq. Is it legal for Turkey to bomb Kurdish villages because they harbor PKK terrorists? And to violate Iraqi air space?
I don't have much sympathy for the PKK - they long ago turned into drug smugglers and criminals. But do the Kurdish people have to suffer for this?

And of course the past genocide against Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians.
To even discuss such things one risks being put in prison for "offending Turkishness". Thats if so wacko doesn't attack you first, like happened to that Armenian journalist.

You have your extremists - Ergenekon, PKK, etc Israel has Hamas, Hezbollah etc

In general...what i mean is, it is not the folks that are doing wrong, this are the governments that follow wrong politics and it is the folks duty to change this!...i dont hate my Armenian neighbour, i like the fresh vegitables of the Jewish guy...see my point? it is time, the UN and the rest of the world do something to fix the whole human tragedy there

Sounds good. If the UN wants to bring peace keeping troops into Gaza and sure they don't attack Israeli civilians that would fine by me. Until then the Israelis have to do it themselves.

 

[Andrew Scherer]

That's not even close to what i said or meant, and you know it. The attacks on Israel would increase dramatically though. Again, what do you think would happen? What would Hamas do if the blockade is lifted?

They would do the same thing they're doing now?

The number of deaths means nothing. What matters is, who would kill the most if they had the power to do so? Hamas would kill all the jews, israel would kill no palestinian unless they were attacked.

LOL right - that's why they dirtnap Gazan farmers for fun.

It's not one sided, buddy.

People in the ME are nucking futs. They might be white but that doesn't mean they don't have screws loose like everyone else in that region.

The numbers of dead palestinians is mainly Hamas fault. They place weapon storages next to schools and hospitals. They also shoot qassams from there. Not to mention that they use civilians as human shields.

Ok time for a reality check bro.

In July 2009, an Israeli NGO Breaking the Silence published testimony from 26 soldiers (two junior officers and the rest is enlisted personnel) who took part in the Gaza assault and which claimed that the IDF used Gazans as human shields, improperly fired incendiary white phosphorus shells over civilian areas and used overwhelming firepower that caused needless deaths and destruction.

Breaking The Silence is an Israeli Non-Governmental Organization established by Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers and veterans who collect and provide testimonies about their military service...

Here's some choice quotes for you if you don't want to check out the PDF..

We saw the planes flying out and you see from which building the rocket is launched against Israel and you see the four houses surrounding that building collapsing as soon as the air force bombs. I don’t know if it was white phosphorus or not, and I don’t really care that much, but whole neighborhoods were simply razed because four houses in the area served to launch Qassam rockets...”

Sometimes the force would enter while placing rifle barrels on a civilian's shoulder, advancing into a house and using him as a human shield.

"What bothered you most about this operation?"

Bothered me? Many things. Firstly, all that destruction. All that fire at innocents. This shock of realizing with whom I'm in this together. My mates, really, and that's how they're behaving. It was simply amazing. Inconceivable. The price of all the draft dodging. You have all the radical lefties who don't enlist for some reason or another, or stay close to home, and this is what your combat units look like.

You see people more or less running their life routine, taking a walk, stuff like that. Definitely not terrorists. I hear from other crews that they fired at people there. Tried to kill them. The younger guys, 22 eager to raise their score. They seem to think it's cool to wield such power with no one wanting to rein them in.

"Why fire phosphorus?"

Because it's fun. Cool.

"Professionally do you have phosphorus for use against such threats?"

I don't know what it's used for. I was just talking about this yesterday. I don't understand what it's even doing in our supplies if we're not supposed to use such ammo. It's ridiculous.

Good luck bro

 

[pat J]

They would do the same thing they're doing now?

Times a thousand.

LOL right - that's why they dirtnap Gazan farmers for fun.

The IDF killed a farmer completely unprovoked and intentional? Source.

People in the ME are nucking futs. They might be white but that doesn't mean they don't have screws loose like everyone else in that region.

Yes, they are. And there are crazy jews as well who would probably want to exterminate all palestinians. However, this is about the ruling authority. Not individual nutjobs. If the IDF would fire rockets everyday into gaza with the purpose of killing civilians, then we could talk.

Ok time for a reality check bro.

Yeah.. Let take quotes from an extreme leftist organization who will not reveal its sources. Sounds very reliable.

Here, i got one too:

Man.. the war was terrible.. white phosphorus everywhere. I saw this kid, he was riding his bike. Suddenly he got white phosphorus all over his body! He melted right before me. The screaming was terrible.. i will never forget that day.

 

[Andrew Scherer]

Times a thousand.

Why stop at a thousand? Let's agree on one........million...

The IDF killed a farmer completely unprovoked and intentional? Source.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ku9WIKPz_k"]How[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSECq3kxT4I"]many[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQXecLyureE"]do[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDD8ANFgwtA"]you[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=010E1x2DPHE"]want?[/ame]

Yes, they are. And there are crazy jews as well who would probably want to exterminate all palestinians. However, this is about the ruling authority. Not individual nutjobs. If the IDF would fire rockets everyday into gaza with the purpose of killing civilians, then we could talk.

Isn't it fair to say that both sides are pretty much run by small bodies of individual nut jobs calling the shots and its in the worlds best interest to try to conserve the peace and quality of life for those trapped in between?

Yeah.. Let take quotes from an extreme leftist organization who will not reveal its sources. Sounds very reliable.

Here, i got one too:

lol wut?

BtS was founded by IDF veterans, not some 3rd party making stuff up like you're trying to insinuate. Talk about sticking your head in the sand - lol.

Point of all of this is there is no good vs evil. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter and both sides have roots in terrorism.

 

[rgordon83]

if you can find and show me that country (in bold and color) on the map, i will agree with anything you say, and i will post here a reply with "Sory people...i am a big idiot"

Kurdistan, Schema-Root news

Now please live up to your end...

 

[rgordon83]

How many do you want?

I think it's interesting to read the article published that day:

Palestinians: IDF troops kill Gazan at border protest - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

while it's sad that someone died, when stupid people do things like violate military "no go" zones (or try and break naval blockades for that matter), bad things can happen. And why were they even throwing stones if it was a peaceful demonstration?

How you can liken that to a terrorist going out into the civilian world and carrying out an attack on people just trying to live their lives is nuts. You're right, that farmer should not have been shot, but he put himself in that situation when he made the choice to protest a military no-go zone and did not leave when warned to multiple times.

If you can't see the difference between that and a terrorist going to a downtown street and shooting up 46 innocent people or a suicide bomber going to a night club and killing 21 people and maiming another 121 then you have some issues.

And you used the farmer incident like it's something that happens all the time and it's the goal of the IDF to kill gazan farmers. But it's clearly the goal of Hamas and other terrorist organizations to carry out as many attacks like the ones i mentioned above as possible.

 

[Andrew Scherer]

I think it's interesting to read the article published that day:

Palestinians: IDF troops kill Gazan at border protest - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

while it's sad that someone died, when stupid people do things like violate military "no go" zones (or try and break naval blockades for that matter), bad things can happen. And why were they even throwing stones if it was a peaceful demonstration?

I know I referenced several videos but I'm not seeing any protesters here... I'm seeing farmers trying to farm land and being shot at. You might have your events mixed up.

 

[timtim]

Kurdistan, Schema-Root news

Now please live up to your end...

you in the same stupid situation i was dude...it was named "places"...not "countries", and my question was "show me a country with that name". Kurdistan never existed and it wont in future...there are million Kurds living in turkey, iran, irak, syria. The kurds in turkey are turkish citizens.