Make money in mortgages with no PPC

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popeye

popeye

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Jun 12, 2007
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This forum kicks ass so I have decided that I wanted to contribute a system I use to generate cash with mortgage leads using no expensive PPC.

I am a former owner of a mortgage company and have used this system for several years to generate very good income. Here We go!

STEP ONE - You first must determine who you will sell the leads to

a) mortgage affiliate programs (you will be paid much less per lead but with less work and hassle)

b) local mortgage companies (you can make a ton of cash doing this but with much more work then step a)

If you decide to work with an affiliate program you will need to:

a) find an affiliate that will accpet "purchase leads". This is more difficult than you might think. Most mortgage affiliates accept only "re-finance" leads. Poke around their are several programs that accpet "purchase leads". Neverblue has a few that accepts purchase leads and so does CJ. Save time in your search and ask your AM for programs that accept "purchase leads"

b) If you decide to go the affiliate route you can either build your own one page mortgage application site (no need to worry about QS you arn't using PPC) or just link directly to the mortgage lender's site. With this method you still need to have a landing page just redirect from that page to your affiliate link.

If you decide to work with local mortgage companies you will need to:

a) find a mortgage local mortgage company to purchase your leads or pay you a commision for each loan closed through your leads. There are two ways to get paid by selling leads to local mortgage companies:

1) pay per lead - mortgage companies are "HUNGRY" for mortgage leads. I have recieved and paid up to $50.00 per lead. The more qualified the lead the more cash you will get for it.

2) pay per close - with this method you will be paid per closed loan. If a lead you provide closes then you will recieve a "commision" on the closing. It may be a set amount or a percentage of the purchase price. I have been paid up to 20% of the purchase price per closed loan. At $1000 and up a pop it doesnt take many to make a very good income. Just remember sometimes a closing may take up to 2months. So while this method is more profitable than the affiliate angle it will take longer for you to get paid.

STEP TWO - Advertise your site

The way I advertise may be a little new to some of you "internet" guys. I do all of my mortgage advertising offline. I advertise the sunday realestate section of small local newspapers state wide. Some of these ads will only cost me $10 to run for one day. Always advertise in the Sunday paper (thats when most people are shopping for homes) and always request to be placed in the real-estate section of the paper. Most papers will try to put you in the service section. Refuse..Refuse and Refuse again. Demand that you be placed in the real-estate section and nine times out of ten you will be place there.

Here is a sample ad that I run -

Your Approved - Bad Credit Mortgages​

New mortgage programs for your area
97% approval rate Apply Online
www mysite com​

Of couse the smaller the ad the less your going to pay. Just throw in some one-liners to get attention and go with it. Don't spend a ton on a huge ad. As long as you have a good head-line and you will get the leads.​

Just start out in a few local Sunday papers. If you start making some cash then move on to a few more. I am currently in 35 local Sunday newspapers in my state. Summer is best time of the year for the "purchase market". On a good Sunday I have recieved up to 100 mortgage leads. So get goin the season is here to make money in mortgages!

EDIT: Sorry guys I have about 20 things goin on at once and forgot some important points. Later today I will add to this post:

1) how to find mortgage companies to sell leads to
2) how to gather mortgage leads from your prospects.

​
 
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Great post Popeye! Too bad that this may be too much work for the WF army:error:

Purchase leads can be tough because everyone would love to buy a home but 99% of the people can't. Now think, "How can I monetize these purcahse leads?" If they can't buy a home, think why?

It's either credit issues or too much debt. BINGO! Credit repair leads and debt consol leads.

Go a step further and get an 800 number where they can all and you can take a live app= more conversions (just learn loan basics) and now you can fax leads or do live transfers with the local mortgage co. If they don't qulify for the loan, then sell to debt consol or credit repair.

Sory Mr. Jones, you dont qualify for this loan and it's because you have a couple issues on your credit that I think can be repaired quite easily. I work with a great company that can help fix this and get you into a home, so I iwll forward your info to them and they will call you shortly. You see I don't give the fucks time to say no and before I hang up the phone, that Application is in the fax machine and their other line is ringing.

Email or fax delivery is my fucken tracking.

Good post +rep
 
If you are going direct to a mortgage company and getting paid per lead, do they have to be city-specific? Lets say the mortgage company is based out of Atlanta, Georgia, but the lead is coming from out of town or even out of state. Will they pay for these kinds of leads?
 
State specific because real estate licensing is done by state, unless your selling leads to a national lender or a broker that is licnesed in different states.

wrstroud said:
If you are going direct to a mortgage company and getting paid per lead, do they have to be city-specific? Lets say the mortgage company is based out of Atlanta, Georgia, but the lead is coming from out of town or even out of state. Will they pay for these kinds of leads?
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wrstroud said:
If you are going direct to a mortgage company and getting paid per lead, do they have to be city-specific? Lets say the mortgage company is based out of Atlanta, Georgia, but the lead is coming from out of town or even out of state. Will they pay for these kinds of leads?
Click to expand...

It depends. I know that is vague, but, depending on the state, you can sell the lead to a mortgage broker in that particular stare. If you have a lead in say Florida, and you live in Georgia, as long as the broker in Georgia doesn't need to be licensed in Florida, its fine(for information you are required as a mortgage broker to get licensed in Florida).

I lived in North Carolina, its all but impossible for a out of state broker to do business in North Carolina. But, overall, this is a sound idea. I wish I had thought of this about four years ago during the mortgage boom, ahh, those were the days!!!
 
Great post. Thank you very much.

Tracking question (if you don't mind helping)- if you're sending off leads and getting paid upon close, how do you track the leads once they're out of your hands, meaning how do you know if and when they close. Follow up with the customer? Trust alone? Thanks for the advice.
 
nointernet said:
Great post. Thank you very much.

Tracking question (if you don't mind helping)- if you're sending off leads and getting paid upon close, how do you track the leads once they're out of your hands, meaning how do you know if and when they close. Follow up with the customer? Trust alone? Thanks for the advice.
Click to expand...


This is where a little trust and a phone call or two come in order. Listen to your "gut" when dealing with mortgage brokers, some are shady as hell. Work with the ones that seem trustworthy.

I keep the broker honest by doing two things:

1) the broker must provide me with a list of all turndowns and all "active" leads.

2) I contact each turndown and go through my spill:

Hello mr.smith this is mr.jones with www mysite com. You have recently submitted a mortgage application to our website. The reason Im calling today is to make sure you were happy with the service you recieved from "name of mortgage broker". I understand that "name of mortgage broker" wasnt able to help you? (this will tell me if the lead was really turned down by the broker or he is feeding me shit and he is tryin to scim me).

at that point I might even direct them to a credit repair or forclosed home list offer on one of my sites (Blast metioned this in a earlier response). Yes it is time consuming. I have conducted this by email but I didnt get much response back from the lead.

Once I have dealt with a mortgage broker for a while and trust them then I tend to slack off the followup calls.

hope that helps

EDIT: shit I have to edit every post I make. Ok after thinking about it im sure alot of you guys would rather not call these leads on the phone. So maybe try this - send an email with the subject "your mortgage application audit"(send from your URL email not a free email) or something to sound official.

In the email ask them to verify that they did apply with "mortgage broker" and that their application was declined. You dont even have to call/email every lead just do some spot checking to keep the mortgage broker honest.
 
popeye said:
2) pay per close - with this method you will be paid per closed loan. If a lead you provide closes then you will recieve a "commision" on the closing. It may be a set amount or a percentage of the purchase price. I have been paid up to 20% of the purchase price per closed loan. At $1000 and up a pop it doesnt take many to make a very good income. Just remember sometimes a closing may take up to 2months. So while this method is more profitable than the affiliate angle it will take longer for you to get paid.
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Good post, just wanted to add one piece of information. Be very careful getting paid on a pay-per-close. Technically, it is illegal to be paid by a mortgage company (lender, or loan officer, etc.) any kinds of referral fees on closed loans. If you send them leads, and they pay you only on leads that they close, you can be prosecuted under the RESPA law. The reasoning behind this is because they think that the loan officer will overcharge the consumer if the loan officer has to pay any referral fees. Lending Tree gets by this by actually taking an entire 1003 application and delivering it to the lender. Lending Tree, as far as I know, is the only large mortgage lead generation company that charges for closed leads. The way they do it, it is not considered a referral and they are in the clear. Their system is kind of like having a junior loan officer who takes the full application, and then gives it to a senior loan officer to close. But if you do that in any commercial capacity, Lending Tree will sue your ass off since they trademarked the system. :uhoh2: Actually, back in 2005, I think Lending Tree sued like 20 or 30 mortgage lead gen companies...most of whom weren't even encroaching on their system.

There are ways to be paid on a per-closed-lead basis that you can get around RESPA, but I'm not a lawyer and I don't want to steer anyone down the wrong road. I worked with LoanWeb.com, one of the largest mortgage lead providers in the nation, for a couple of years, and I also ran a small mortgage company so I came across the RESPA issue dozens of times. If you work on a pay-per-close system, be careful.
 
Popeye,

That's a great idea you gave us!
How do you contact those local newspapers? How do submit your ads, make payments, etc.?
Everything is done online or old fashion post?
Thanks! :)
 
Michel Z. said:
Popeye,

That's a great idea you gave us!
How do you contact those local newspapers? How do submit your ads, make payments, etc.?
Everything is done online or old fashion post?
Thanks! :)
Click to expand...

You can call the papers on the phone or most papers have an online order form. The first time I use them I would call them up to make sure they place your ad in the real estate section.

Payment is either mailed to them or you can use a CC. After you run your ads a while and develop a relationship with the paper they will bill you.
 
Awesome post man! Great information, going to edit it with those changes soon though?
 
PART 2

This post contains some information that I left off the first post that I will is important.


How to find a mortgage company to sell lead to

First off this is going to take a little leg work. You will not solicit the corporate mortgage companies. Look in the phone book under the “mortgage broker” section. These are the mom and pop shops that broker loans to the larger mortgage companies. They are hungry for leads and customers and they will be your target.

The difference between a mortgage broker and a mortgage lender is that the broker will take the application work it up and “place” the customer with a mortgage lender, who then will underwrite the loan and fund it.

Don’t worry about the big dogs just focus on selling your leads to the small “mortgage broker” operations. Call them up, visit them or send them a flyer offering them free 20 leads. I have had success with mailing advertisements but I have had far greater success speaking to them in person.

Ask for the “origination manager” this is the guy responsible for bringing business in the door. Explain to them that you are a professional internet marketer who deals in obtaining qualified mortgage leads. Offer them 10 of your “hottest” (I will explain hot leads later) leads and tell them you will touch base with them in a week. You will then contact the broker in a week and hit them up with your sales offer. I would start out with an “introductory offer” of $15-$20 range per lead. If you deliver quality leads you will be able to raise your prices by $10-$20 more dollars per lead. If you deliver good leads the broker will kiss your ass and you can set your price.

I would start out with “pay per lead”. Once you get some experience and a relationship under your belt with a mortgage broker you can move on to the “pay per closing” if you wish.

How to gather leads from your prospects

If you want to go the easy route and send your prospects to affiliate programs then this process is very easy. Register a URL and set up a “re-direct” pointing to your mortgage affiliate program. Place your ad in the papers and your set.

If you wish to sell your leads to mortgage brokers, then it gets a bit tougher. To do this you only need two pages on the site.

1) landing page
2) application page

Since you’re not using PPC don’t worry about the QS the page would receive. You can hire someone to do this for around $100. I am an HTML noob so I use Front Page to build my landing page and application page (Front Page makes it very easy to build an application page). Yea..Yea I use Front Page go ahead and laugh.

I would start off with building a short form application and add to it if your mortgage broker needs more information. Remember the more information contained in your app the more the lead will cost to the broker. Here is an example of information I would include on a short form application.

1) name
2) address
3) contact number
4) email address
5) are you looking to purchase or refinance an existing home
6) do you currently in contract to purchase a home – MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION


Remember when I told you I would explain a “hot lead” well if the applicant answers yes to question number 6 then it is a “HOT” lead. If the applicant is in contract that means they have chosen a house, placed a “deposit” down to hold the property and is in need of financing. These leads are gold! These are the leads you are going to let the brokers sample. If the applicant’s credit is decent these leads will have a high chance of closing.

Well I am going to stop now before I write a book. If any of you guys use this let me know how its going for you.
 
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He's right and wrong. I had my real estate license for 7 years and managed big real estate offices in So Cal. So I'm familiar with this.

You can get kick backs all you want. It's not against the law but real estate law and the real estate licensee is the one at risk of having his licensed yanked and prosecuted under the B&P code as a misdemeanor or felony depending on the severity. 90% it's a suspension or revoked.

There is now reason that you can be hired by a mortgage company and paid as a marketing firm and have a revenue share model. You can also become a Jr. Loan Officer and take apps, control the leads and fax or email deliver. As a Jr. LO you cannot perform the duties of a licensed sales person as quoting interest rates etc. Plus if they don't qualify fior a loan, then you now have a credit repair or debt consol lead that you own and not some fucken affiliate company.

Fuck Lending Tree and Loan web. Be your own company if you do this.

TrafficVenue MM said:
Good post, just wanted to add one piece of information. Be very careful getting paid on a pay-per-close. Technically, it is illegal to be paid by a mortgage company (lender, or loan officer, etc.) any kinds of referral fees on closed loans. If you send them leads, and they pay you only on leads that they close, you can be prosecuted under the RESPA law. The reasoning behind this is because they think that the loan officer will overcharge the consumer if the loan officer has to pay any referral fees. Lending Tree gets by this by actually taking an entire 1003 application and delivering it to the lender. Lending Tree, as far as I know, is the only large mortgage lead generation company that charges for closed leads. The way they do it, it is not considered a referral and they are in the clear. Their system is kind of like having a junior loan officer who takes the full application, and then gives it to a senior loan officer to close. But if you do that in any commercial capacity, Lending Tree will sue your ass off since they trademarked the system. :uhoh2: Actually, back in 2005, I think Lending Tree sued like 20 or 30 mortgage lead gen companies...most of whom weren't even encroaching on their system.

There are ways to be paid on a per-closed-lead basis that you can get around RESPA, but I'm not a lawyer and I don't want to steer anyone down the wrong road. I worked with LoanWeb.com, one of the largest mortgage lead providers in the nation, for a couple of years, and I also ran a small mortgage company so I came across the RESPA issue dozens of times. If you work on a pay-per-close system, be careful.
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Great post and thanks. I was looking for something like this but just wasn't sure what the best way to go about it was.

BYA, thanks for additional info. Your right about most Americans and instead of losing sales, why not try to wring a little money out of their asses. Thanks.
 
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