Old guns are better than plastic.

[Mike]

During WWII a German general visited Switzerland:

"Your country is so small. You have only 500,000 men in your military. What would you do if we were to invade with a million soldiers?"

To which the Swiss general replied: "We would shoot twice and go home."

This is the gun the Swiss military would have been carrying at the time.

Okay, so for those of you not familiar with any gun not featured in C.O.D. here is an example of one of the best bolt action military rifles never used in combat.

The Schmidt Rubin Karabiner 31 (K-31). Manfactured between 1933 - 1958. Mine was made in 1949 based on the date on the stock and the serial number.

It has an adjustable site from 100 yards (meters? prolly) to 1500. Straight pull bolt, about a 3 pound trigger, and insane accuracy for a rifle 63 years old.

Another really cool point about K-31's: you can pick them up for under $300 and out shoot your buddies all day long with iron sights! I have no problem hitting a 16" steel plate at 600 yards with this rifle.

On the other hand, ammo runs about $1 a round unless you load your own (if you need reloading data for K31's, PM me) then you can get it down to factory 223 prices (0.40 - 0.50 per round). They fire a .308 bullet, and some say the 7.5x55 GP11 had a big influence on the modern 308. Not sure if that's true, but at least bullets are easy to come by for reloading.

Anyhow, figured some of the other gun geeks here may appreciate an old beauty like this. (borrowed the dogs' couch for the background)

Full length with bolt open

Bolt closed

Swiss crest found on every K31

And a video I found on the K-31 that shows it in action:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wia2HjTqnZQ]Swiss K31 7.5x55mm Rifle "Glamor" video - YouTube[/ame]

For those really diggin' the rifle:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHTwmTqYKPk]K-31 Bolt Action Swiss Army Rifle in 7.5x55mm - YouTube[/ame]

Anybody else into old guns? I'd like to get a 30-40 Krag someday and more Swiss rifles.

 

[charlesmartel]

Can you recommend any websites to buy one from? Of course, through someone with a FFL.

 

[Mike]

Welcome to Samco Global Arms, Inc.
Guns for Sale - Online Gun Auction - Buy Guns at GunBroker.com - best chance of finding one
SWISS Model K31 Schmidt-Rubin short rifles for sale!

I got mine locally at Cabelas. Any place that gets old milsurp arms has a chance of having K-31's.

Before you do, get somewhat familiar with the proof marks, they'll tell you a lot about the rifle: Swiss Rifle Markings

And here's a reference for the serial numbers: Manufacture Dates of Swiss Schmidt-Rubin Rifles

Pre-1942 (1938, can't remember) will be walnut stocks, after that they're birch.

Another cool thing about Swiss rifles in general, a lot of times they will have a soldier's tag under the buttplate. It's just a piece of paper with the name of the person the rifle belonged to, their address, and unit number or personnel number - similar to a SSN from what I understand.

Good luck! Post pics if you get one

 

[schockergd]

Old guns are great, new guns are great too. The thing that they have in common is that essentially when it comes down to it, 100 years ago the kind of ammunition they were shooting wasn't THAT much different than we have today. Sure, there are minor improvements in primers, bullet BC and the like, but both will put a nice hole in paper at great distances.


The k31 is a prime example of Switzerland's policy - Every citizen a militia member, every militia member a marksman.

Every k31 is made to be utilized by a marksman, not a rifleman, not a conscript , but a person who knows how to utilize the rifle to its full effect. Switzerland was, and still is a country designed with self defense in mind. The country got in trouble here VERY recently because a foreign official found out that bridges were still wired with explosives 'just in case' they needed to cut off major roadways to France, Germany, Italy and other countries.

The k31 could easily hit a man sized target at 1,000 yards, and you've got a fair chance of hitting someone beyond that distance. It doesn't really matter, because in Switzerland you've got a whole lot of people that can put lead on paper at great distances. Heck, today one of their highest scoring marksmen at the last Schützenfest was a 12 or 13 year old girl who was putting 1 inch groups @ 300m with a Sig 550.

Old guns are cool, especially military surplus ones because there's some SERIOUS history behind them. Heck, I know more than a few people who have purchased rifles to find blood, skin, and notches from kills engraved on the stocks. Some have found dairies, and other things in the butt stocks and the like. It's always fun to handle a rifle , and realize that the sole purpose of it was to kill Nazi's back in ww2 , or the opposite of that.

Every American or Canadian should own a couple Mosin Nagants, they're less than $100 and carry a ton of history. The rifle has been around for 120+ years and is still in use in some countries!

 

[Sharksfan]

Great, now I want to run out and buy one of these.

My oldest rifle is a M1 Garand issued in Belgium in 1944. It's a sweet piece of hardware.

 

[Dresden14]

If you wanna buy something that won't break and engineered by the finest in that era, I got 1 K-98 collectors grade (The rifle I got from this guy http://www.mauser.org/ ) and a Walther P38 at a local gun show. Both guns are amazing. The k98 I'm able to hit my targets at 100 yards. The K98 is not russian stamped, shoots 8mm rounds. Amazing rifle.

Although I've never owned a swiss gun and wouldnt buy anything old except german for obviously my interest in the era, your gun does look rather clean. Maybe its because the swiss were never really engaged in the war? Either way, beautiful rifle.

 

[Eldarion]

switzerland, the little porcupine

 

[schockergd]

If you wanna buy something that won't break and engineered by the finest in that era, I got 1 K-98 collectors grade (The rifle I got from this guy Mitchell's Mausers ) and a Walther P38 at a local gun show. Both guns are amazing. The k98 I'm able to hit my targets at 100 yards. The K98 is not russian stamped, shoots 8mm rounds. Amazing rifle.

Although I've never owned a swiss gun and wouldnt buy anything old except german for obviously my interest in the era, your gun does look rather clean. Maybe its because the swiss were never really engaged in the war? Either way, beautiful rifle.

If you're only hitting targets @ 100yds with your K98, you're not trying hard enough. The rifle is capable of 1000yd shots with just a little practice & good ammo.

 

[Hav3n]

Every American or Canadian should own a couple Mosin Nagants, they're less than $100 and carry a ton of history. The rifle has been around for 120+ years and is still in use in some countries!

Probably my next purchase or 3.

Scopes and all that are fine but none of that will give you the satisfaction of using iron sights and hitting what you're aiming at from a kneeling or standing position.

Currently though I am in the market for a AK-74

Either an Arsenal SGL31 or a Waffen Works

HRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG

Maybe if i get cheap ill get a Tantal... but... I had a WASR-10 and didn't much care for it.

Going to a gun show this weekend with a wad of cash in my pocket so who knows what i'll bring home.... we'll see what i find.

 

[amateursurgeon]

Here's a rifle with a real history:

Picture of said rifle in use:

They were made just down the road from where I live, back when our country actually manufactured things instead of just moving imaginary numbers around on a screen and causing financial crises.

 

[schockergd]

Probably my next purchase or 3.

Scopes and all that are fine but none of that will give you the satisfaction of using iron sights and hitting what you're aiming at from a kneeling or standing position.

Currently though I am in the market for a AK-74

Either an Arsenal SGL31 or a Waffen Works

HRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG

Maybe if i get cheap ill get a Tantal... but... I had a WASR-10 and didn't much care for it.

Going to a gun show this weekend with a wad of cash in my pocket so who knows what i'll bring home.... we'll see what i find.

Unfortunately, most military rifles have crappy sights on them. Many if not all American military rifles have had VERY good sights, however they aren't cheap at all compared to many European/Russian surplus guns.

If you can ever find it, try to find a Swiss or Swede rifle with 'target' sights. Might as well be using a scope with one, they're amazing.

 

[schockergd]

My 9mm could out-shoot your old gun any day

But could your modern 9mm outshoot this 77 year old 9mm handgun?

Short answer - no , it couldn't. Your Beretta has similar if not lower capacity than the BHP , and on top of that the BHP is insanely reliable and has a amazing trigger to it which allows for extremely fast rapid fire.

 

[Dresden14]

If you're only hitting targets @ 100yds with your K98, you're not trying hard enough. The rifle is capable of 1000yd shots with just a little practice & good ammo.

Never tried, but wouldnt doubt it. The range I go to maxes at 100 yards.

My 9mm could out-shoot your old gun any day

My M11 could out shoot all these lil pussy 9s. Also got a few glocks, xd's and of course the walther. Great caliber i think. This was made in 89, but I redid the interior and it's got all new internal parts. This is a generic google pic, but looks just like it

 

[schockergd]

Never tried, but wouldnt doubt it. The range I go to maxes at 100 yards.

True story : A neighbor to my parent's back in the 70s bought a M1 Garand as a surplus rifle.

On the way back from shooting it at the river next to my parents house, him and a friend got in a debate as to whether they could hit a cow in a very far field that was approximately 1,000 yards away. The new owner of said firearm said that it was impossible, and even if it did make it that far, it wouldn't hurt the cow. The other guy said it would kill it.

To prove the other guy wrong, he fired one single round at the cow which was 1,000 yards away. Cow dropped over dead.

Two guys walked all that way to confirm , and it was DOA. Man proceeded to talk to farmer who then forced him to purchase said cow as he had killed the beef cow.

Long story short, if you want beef, you can get it with a 30-06 surplus rifle.

 

[Mike]

True story : ... if you want beef, you can get it with a 30-06 surplus rifle.

No doubt!

@Dresden14: post picks of your Mauser. That's another old surplus rifle on my list. I understand the Argentine Mausers are really nice. Any tips on what to look for in an old Mauser?

Here's my short list (well, short right now...)

- 30-40 Krag (1899 or 1898)
- M1 Garand
- 1903 Springfield (used a copy of the Mauser bolt, which the US was sued for and had to pay royalties to Mauser Werke)
- Mauser M98
- M1A, maybe

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G551KpNnA0"]My Rifle - YouTube[/ame]





For the most part, I like historically significant rifles. I stop short of black powder guns. I like to reload, so I stick to "newer" smokeless powder rifles. And, as shockergd mentioned, there's something cool as hell about owning a rifle with history. Even more fun to shoot them.

 

[Uptime]

A fun little twist with my Walther P38 is it's ability to unload the 8+1 in the space of about 2 heart beats with a single intentional trigger pull. If you pull the trigger back and keep the right amount of pressure while holding the gun not to tightly the recoil will empty the gun very very quickly.

There is probably a proper term for this. I just call it fun.

 

[schockergd]

A fun little twist with my Walther P38 is it's ability to unload the 8+1 in the space of about 2 heart beats with a single intentional trigger pull. If you pull the trigger back and keep the right amount of pressure while holding the gun not to tightly the recoil will empty the gun very very quickly.

There is probably a proper term for this. I just call it fun.

Bump firing.

According to my uncle, it's a lifesaver when training. He's one of the highest decorated officers in Florida that is living. From what my understanding is, he did that very thing in a recent, major shootout and succeeded to kill a guy who was trying to kill several officers.

 

[Scififisher]

:2gunsfiring_v1: I am not a collector but I do like the old guns. I have been thinking about getting an M14. It has a lot of history with U.S. troops and many swear by it.

 

[shawnhag]

that bolt looks aftermarket, no?