Puerto Rico Statehood: Yay or Nay ?

[minsco]

Are you trying to compare a US territory that is 3500 square miles to a city that is 135 square miles? Before I destroy your entire argument, I just want to make sure I'm clear on what it is you're actually trying to assert.

Detroit metropolitan area = 3,913 sq mi

I am asserting that Detroit is much worse of a place in terms of crime and quality of life.

EDIT: Puerto Rico population= 3,978,702

Metro Detroit pop = 4,296,250

Pretty fucking comparable, now please destroy my argument.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Detroit metropolitan area = 3,913 sq mi

I am asserting that Detroit is much worse of a place in terms of crime and quality of life.

The stats you gave are for the city of Detroit. Metro Detroit is a whole different ballgame. The city of Detroit is a shit hole (except for downtown and midtown), but many of the suburban areas in Metro Detroit are fucking gorgeous and loaded with money with very little crime.

It would be like me pulling crime stats for the South Bronx and trying to make the argument that that represents all of New York.

Pull your crime and poverty level stats for Grosse Pointe, Bloomfield Hills, Troy, Farmington Hills, Rochester Hills, Bingham Farms, etc, etc, etc I could go on and on. See the difference is if you find yourself in a fucked up neighborhood in Detroit you just have to drive in any direction for 20 minutes and you're back in civilization. If you're in Puerto Rico you need to get on a plane or a boat to leave that shit hole of an island.

 

[Moxie]

The infrastructure in Puerto Rico sucks balls.

Except for its lack of a public railway system, Puerto Rico has a well-developed infrastructure and transportation network. The island's minimal railways are used only for hauling sugarcane. The vast majority of the island's 14,400 kilometers (8,949 miles) of roadways are paved. Some 30 international and domestic airports allow for easy access to various cities on the island and provide transportation for industry and tourism.

Economically speaking, the most important form of transportation in Puerto Rico is by water. Puerto Rico's location between the Americas and en route to the Panama Canal, coupled with its valuable port cities, boosts the economy through trade and commerce. There is no Puerto Rican merchant marine; the majority of its ships are owned by the United States. The advanced infrastructure and transportation systems also make it easier to profit from the booming tourism industry.

Puerto Rico Infrastructure, power, and communications, Information about Infrastructure, power, and communications in Puerto Rico

 

[dmnEPC]

1. You're assuming I'm Puerto Rican, which I'm not.

You may not be but you have a horse in this race just not sure what it is.

2. Development requires investment. Investing in PR would bring mutual benefits. Puerto Rican people aren't concerned about bringing money into the US; we have to spark the interest by investing and thus creating jobs.

Why should we pay to develop this place? What are these benefits you mention? Any benefit to the US has already been realized when we made it a territory. You said it yourself PR people are not concerned about bringing money into the US only taking it out. Again where is the upside. What specifically would be done that would give the US a positive ROI? The US basically owns it already and are already putting money into the only places where it makes fiscal sense. Putting 2/3 of the PR population on Social programs is not going to help anyone but Puerto ricans.

3. You just made yourself sound like a complete idiot.

What specifically did I say that make you think that? A hypothetical scenario that would make more sense than yours? Or is it just your closed minded thought process that makes you think that way?

 

[super]

Detroit metropolitan area = 3,913 sq mi

I am asserting that Detroit is much worse of a place in terms of crime and quality of life.

EDIT: Puerto Rico population= 3,978,702

Metro Detroit pop = 4,296,250

Pretty fucking comparable, now please destroy my argument.

Lol at this post. When integrating a country its usually about economic numbers and not crime rate. After economics then you talk about culture. PR is spanish/latin country which has nothing to do with US culture.

 

[minsco]

The stats you gave are for the city of Detroit. Metro Detroit is a whole different ballgame. The city of Detroit is a shit hole (except for downtown and midtown), but many of the suburban areas in Metro Detroit are fucking gorgeous and loaded with money with very little crime.

It would be like me pulling stats for the South Bronx and trying to make the argument that that represents all of New York.

Pull your crime and poverty level stats for Grosse Pointe, Bloomfield Hills, Troy, Farmington Hills, Rochester Hills, Bingham Farms, etc, etc, etc I could go on and on. See the difference is if you find yourself in a fucked up neighborhood in Detroit you just have to drive in any direction for 20 minutes and you're back in civilization. If you're in Puerto Rico you need to get on a plane or a boat to leave that shit hole of an island.

You're acting like everything outside of Detroit is a wonderland. There are nice and bad parts. For example, Flint is a shit-hole. (Inside Metro Detroit)

"According to a 2011 national poll by 24/7 Wall St. Flint was named the most dangerous city in the U.S. in 2011"

It would be like me pulling stats for the South Bronx and trying to make the argument that that represents all of New York.

No, it would be like pulling up stats of NYC and comparing them to Metro NYC, pretty simple to understand.

See the difference is if you find yourself in a fucked up neighborhood in Detroit you just have to drive in any direction for 20 minutes and you're back in civilization. If you're in Puerto Rico you need to get on a plane or a boat to leave that shit hole of an island.

The difference is Detroit is full of crack heads, Puerto Rico has beautiful sun and beaches.

I respect Detroit for the auto industry. But it's not a paradise.

I don't even understand what we are arguing.

Except for its lack of a public railway system, Puerto Rico has a well-developed infrastructure and transportation network. The island's minimal railways are used only for hauling sugarcane. The vast majority of the island's 14,400 kilometers (8,949 miles) of roadways are paved. Some 30 international and domestic airports allow for easy access to various cities on the island and provide transportation for industry and tourism.

Economically speaking, the most important form of transportation in Puerto Rico is by water. Puerto Rico's location between the Americas and en route to the Panama Canal, coupled with its valuable port cities, boosts the economy through trade and commerce. There is no Puerto Rican merchant marine; the majority of its ships are owned by the United States. The advanced infrastructure and transportation systems also make it easier to profit from the booming tourism industry.

Puerto Rico Infrastructure, power, and communications, Information about Infrastructure, power, and communications in Puerto Rico

Great source bro.

 

[danke]

Lol at this post. When integrating a country its usually about economic numbers and not crime rate. After economics then you talk about culture. PR is spanish/latin country which has nothing to do with US culture.

You've never been to Miami, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, or LA have you? lol

The stats you gave are for the city of Detroit. Metro Detroit is a whole different ballgame. The city of Detroit is a shit hole (except for downtown and midtown), but many of the suburban areas in Metro Detroit are fucking gorgeous and loaded with money with very little crime.

It would be like me pulling crime stats for the South Bronx and trying to make the argument that that represents all of New York.

Pull your crime and poverty level stats for Grosse Pointe, Bloomfield Hills, Troy, Farmington Hills, Rochester Hills, Bingham Farms, etc, etc, etc I could go on and on. See the difference is if you find yourself in a fucked up neighborhood in Detroit you just have to drive in any direction for 20 minutes and you're back in civilization. If you're in Puerto Rico you need to get on a plane or a boat to leave that shit hole of an island.

So the only parts of Detroit that don't suck are the parts of Detroit that aren't legally Detroit.

Got it.

 

[jeffrey]

That idea is almost as bad as giving women the right to vote...

 

[minsco]

You may not be but you have a horse in this race just not sure what it is.


Why should we pay to develop this place? What are these benefits you mention? Any benefit to the US has already been realized when we made it a territory. You said it yourself PR people are not concerned about bringing money into the US only taking it out. Again where is the upside. What specifically would be done that would give the US a positive ROI? The US basically owns it already and are already putting money into the only places where it makes fiscal sense. Putting 2/3 of the PR population on Social programs is not going to help anyone but Puerto ricans.




What specifically did I say that make you think that? A hypothetical scenario that would make more sense than yours? Or is it just your closed minded thought process that makes you think that way?

Sorry brah but if we wanted that we would turn Mexico into a state and strip it of all its natural resources long before we give a rats ass about PR

That was what made you sound dumb. I don;t actually think you are dumb though

But my whole point is this; we could have a tropical trade paradise city located in the Caribbean which could be awesome for business and trade.


Anyways, I gotta go smoke a bleezy. :rasta:

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

You're acting like everything outside of Detroit is a wonderland. There are nice and bad parts. For example, Flint is a shit-hole. (Inside Metro Detroit)

"According to a 2011 national poll by 24/7 Wall St. Flint was named the most dangerous city in the U.S. in 2011"

Flint is not part of Metro Detroit, it is it's own metropolitan area about an hour and a half north of Detroit. I guess that makes Philadelphia part of New York too, right?

The difference is Detroit is full of crack heads, Puerto Rico has beautiful sun and beaches.

Again, you're mixing up the fucked up neighborhoods in Detroit with an entire fucking Metropolitan area. Like I said before, it's obvious you've never been to the Detroit area.

I respect Detroit for the auto industry. But it's not a paradise.

I never said it was. I was just pointing out the error of your comparisons.

So the only parts of Detroit that don't suck are the parts of Detroit that aren't legally Detroit.

Reread the post you twit. Downtown and midtown are nice. It's the neighborhoods that are shit. Besides, he was using crime stats from the city of Detroit and trying to apply it to a metropolitan area 10x the size of the city proper.

 

[danke]

Name calling? Your argument is getting stronger every minute. Carry on.

I'll go back to being a spectator at best.

 

[Moxie]

Great source bro.

Compared to pulling something out of my ass? Yes, yes it is.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Name calling? Your argument is getting stronger every minute. Carry on.

I'll go back to being a spectator at best.

Learn to read before jumping in the middle of an argument then. If you don't make yourself look stupid you're less likely to get called out on it.

 

[super]

beaches, crime rates.... Realize that those things are like number 10 and number 20 in the list of all things you consider when deciding if a country is worthy or not to be part of another country or union.

 

[dmnEPC]

That was what made you sound dumb. I don;t actually think you are dumb though

But my whole point is this; we could have a tropical trade paradise city located in the Caribbean which could be awesome for business and trade.


Anyways, I gotta go smoke a bleezy. :rasta:

I am still waiting for an answer. Is that how you debate? Just lay out some pipe dream ideas and when challenged you name call and then take off with out answering specific questions? Or are we just doing your homework for you?

 

[dabreadman]

As a Puerto Rican, this thread is pretty darn funny.

 

[lukep]

As a Puerto Rican, this thread is pretty darn funny.

Thank heyzeus you're here! Please tell us about how popular statehood would be for PR citizens... I've wondered this before more than once.

Also, does the average chico there expect statehood would give you all other benefits than entitlements? (i.e. Roads, government buildings, business grants, etc.)

 

[geomark]

50 sounds so much better than 51.

Although, 0bama has been to 57 states
Obama Claims He's Visited 57 States - YouTube

Let's have a poll on which small countries Obama has his eye on to annex as states.

Lol at this post. When integrating a country its usually about economic numbers and not crime rate. After economics then you talk about culture. PR is spanish/latin country which has nothing to do with US culture.

Dude, I grew up on San Diego. The names of most of the cities in California are Spanish. You must live in fly-over country.

no srsly. make it a state. then America would have one state where the chicks aren't over 400 pounds.

At least while they are still in their 20's.

 

[dabreadman]

Read all of this if you want to learn the real stuff.

Here's the deal, there will be a plebiscite this year that will answer that question with current data/point of views. Last plebiscite that asked that exact question (what's the stand on status) was on 1998, and the majority of people selected the option "None of the above" (50.3%).

Above being:
Statehood (42.6%)
Independence (2.5%)
"Free Association" and Commonwelth (current status) (0.03%)

Clearly, most people are not overly enthusiastic at the thought of becoming a state. The current governor, however, is definitely pushing for that. (pro-statehood party won last governor elections)

INFRASTRUCTURE

Puerto Rico infrastructure is ok. If you are talking about paint chipping off on government agencies, badly maintained air ducts, poorly maintained pavement (holes, etc) then yes, you can call it fucked up but that's a sign of recession, not poor infrastructure. PR has one of the highest road densities in the world.

Our economy is based on Manufacturing, Pharmaceutical, Electronics, etc. both private and public investment pretty much take care of making the infrastructure work.

We import around 85% of the stuff we consume, primarly from you guys, giving you guys over 22 billion each year (last year). This make our port one of the most highly trafficked. We also have to bring all that stuff with US ships (by law), giving you guys over 1.5 billion a year in duties, etc.

ONE WAY TRANSFERENCES
I had to take out my books for this one.

The common perception is that Puerto Rico survives by federal aid, but that is simply wrong. But it's ok as that's the overall perception of citizens even here, but here are the facts:

• USA gives PR, 2.7 billion in one-way no BS transfers for local agencies. (transport, etc.)
• It gives another 1.9 billion, in one-way transfers for individuals (Medicaid, Pell grants, etc). Around 37% of the population receives these direct transfers.
• TOTAL: That's 4.6 billion in true "federal aid".

• Puerto Rico does not pay federal tax in the sense that we do not pay the the federal income or corporate tax. Make no mistake about this, we DO pay social security, medicare, veteran pension funds, unemployment, etc. This means PR pays out 8.9 billion each year in the above taxes.

• Puerto Rico imports 85% of the products we consume. 22 billion worth of products each year, 55% of those are from the USA. Pretty good client. Plus the 1.5 billion in USA-merchants cargo duties..

Lol at me thinking you guys will read all that but oh well. Off to sleep!

Thank heyzeus you're here! Please tell us about how popular statehood would be for PR citizens... I've wondered this before more than once.

Also, does the average chico there expect statehood would give you all other benefits than entitlements? (i.e. Roads, government buildings, business grants, etc.)

 

[dabreadman]

Continued...


These issues are debated every single day here in Puerto Rico.


My view: We are in a recession, although slightly "improving" now (it's election year), our government cut public spending by laying off over 20k government workers, a new tax reform was approved in 2010 which will effectively reduce income taxes to a maximum of 30% in (from 39%).

"People making less than $20,000 would not pay any tax. The bracket of those making $20,001 to $30,000 would be taxed 7 percent. From $30,001 to $70,000, the allocation would be 14 percent.
The upper part of the scale, generating between $70,001 and $125,000, would pay 25 percent. Those making above $125,000 would be taxed 30 percent."

That's pretty darn good news.

Overall, some good stuff, some bad stuff. Our economy definetly needs some RonPaul type of change, but I like to stay positive.

As a business owner: The are plenty opportunities as-is for me to want to become a full-blown state.