Stephen Hawking Says the Universe Was Not Created by God

[Rusky]

You should have probably wrapped it up before you started typing anything in this tread to be honest.

Much like BluuueJammm says. Most or many still tick the box on forms as Christian or subscribing to some other inane religious badge, but that's far from an admittance of religion.

I think if you were to ask anyone in my family what their religion was they'd say christian or church of England, yet my family are all as amused by religion and the church as anyone I know. For as long as I can remember it's been considered, by most, more about what religion you were christened as, not whether you think an omnipresent being cares about your empty little insignificant world.

You'll have to excuse me but I go by stats. Birds of a kind stick together. Not sure you can conclude from your own experience what the majority of people are like and believe in (even when facts state the contrary). This is exactly how a lot of little cracks are turned into facts by the atheist community.
You're wrong, I'm right. Deal with it.

 

[-God-]

You'll have to excuse me but I go by stats. Birds of a kind stick together. Not sure you can conclude from your own experience what the majority of people are like and believe in (even when facts state the contrary). This is exactly how a lot of little cracks are turned into facts by the atheist community.
You're wrong, I'm right. Deal with it.

Exactly, if you go by stats, read the stats that aren't 10 years old. Read the stats from the Guardian. Atheists out number religionists by 2 to 1. And that is a fact. (As I did say.) I remember reading an article on a paper a while ago that said only 7% of the UK go to church. I consider that high, but whatever, it doesn't support your fallacy.

Watch our programs. Do we talk of religion? Does the news give a fuck about religion? Do all our quiz shows and comedy shows poke fun at religion? It's accepted, religion is in decline and few find it little more than an annoyance.

Also, "birds of a feather" is not completely true, baring in mind I went to a normal school and have friends that went to church. Disdain for religion is massive. Huge. Larger than someone who doesn't live in my culturally diverse country could ever appreciate.

The only person that's wrong is you. Live in your bubble and distort facts to make your beliefs feel more correct, but I can assure you of this: As a resident of the UK, religion matters not. Almost everyone knows that. And that's not speculation.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to argue to be honest. It's your problem, as you're the believer. If you want to believe I do actually think that's perfectly acceptable. I just don't want to see it making money, robbing people, abusing children, starting wars, killing people, seeking funding, passing judgement on all and sundry, getting involved in politics, telling people how to think and act and ensuring many pass this dogmatic hatred on to their poor offspring. Religion is like a disease and needs to become more like a quiet hobby people do in their homes with some friends. It should also be kept away from children until they're old enough to think for themselves.

 

[Rusky]

I just don't want to see it making money, robbing people, abusing children, starting wars, killing people, seeking funding, passing judgement on all and sundry, getting involved in politics, telling people how to think and act and ensuring many pass this dogmatic hatred on to their poor offspring. Religion is like a disease and needs to become more like a quiet hobby people do in their homes with some friends. It should also be kept away from children until they're old enough to think for themselves.

Bull Shit.
I dont know of any Christians that steal, kill, or hate. Also most have very successful offspring's. We give much more to the community and generally do more good. Thats a fact. Look at what the Biblical philosophy did for America - we kill UK and most of the world in just about every category.

Also.
Explains to me eugenics and its origins.
and would you like to talk about any other wacky Darwin inspired ideas.

 

[Chianti]

Rusky, for fuck sake, YOU don't even really believe that the universe works the way as described in the bible. You haven't INTERNALISED it. If you really thought that everyone and anyone you met could be a demon or devil, and that these monsters were stalking the earth trying to being chaos, terror and the end of humankind, then you wouldn't be able to function properly let alone concentrate on making online monies. If you really believed that you were in the middle of a galactic, supernatural battle between good and evil, you'd be a paranoid, crazy wreck quivering in an asylum.

So you obviously don't believe it to any real psychological depth; you're not convinced on a fundamental level. Your belief is simply an academic acceptance of a story you've been indoctrinated with.

Go read about the absolute ignorance and hysteria that dogged humankind up to the 1500's. THOSE ancestors *really* thought they were living in the world described in the bible, and they fucking acted on it big-time. Your religious belief is a pale, weak superstition in comparison, akin to throwing salt over your shoulder or not stepping on the cracks in the pavement.

 

[conv3rsion]

Go read about the absolute ignorance and hysteria that dogged humankind up to the 1500's. THOSE ancestors *really* thought they were living in the world described in the bible, and they fucking acted on it big-time. Your religious belief is a pale, weak superstition in comparison, akin to throwing salt over your shoulder or not stepping on the cracks in the pavement.

I believe there are lots of good Christians out there and many of them have good hearts and are really trying to improve the world. For many of them, their faith is an inspiration, brings them comfort, and I'm very happy they have it. I'm also happy they have community and fellowship with their church members. I'm especially happy with those who appreciate their freedoms and want all their fellow humans to have the same freedoms.

I just also believe that they either

1) haven't read the bible (ding ding ding)
2) cherry pick which parts they find acceptable
3) don't care that much / don't actually try to rationalize the text
4) are in total agreement with the bible and are total assholes (for example, westboro baptist church)

The God of the bible is not a good guy (esp of the old testament, but also some of the new, such as revelations). He is misogynistic, he plays favorites with races, he is narcissistic, he is cruel, and he is unjust. Thats true even if you can rationalize the somewhat ridiculous plot, the fact that he needs Satan for free will to exist (and is ultimately responsible for him), that he doesn't want his creations to have the total knowledge necessary to love him, and having given them a choice, punishes them for seeking it, the fact that needing a human sacrifice for 'sin' is nonsensical (he's God, so he only requires this if he actually requires this), that fact that dying for someone's sins is not actually a sacrifice if you are then not dead, etc, etc. This is after you get over all the contradictory text and the fact that miracles were much more common in the past when we didn't have science to explain things.

A rational person would ask himself, "If this is really the God of the universe, do I want to support him"?

I don't believe most Americans actually question things to this point. Or they are actually ok with the God of the bible, which to me is bizarre, unless the of course are afraid of not following lockstep, where to them the alternative is external pain and suffering beyond comprehension.

Free will, my ass.

 

[BluuueJammm]

You'll have to excuse me but I go by stats. Birds of a kind stick together. Not sure you can conclude from your own experience what the majority of people are like and believe in (even when facts state the contrary). This is exactly how a lot of little cracks are turned into facts by the atheist community.
You're wrong, I'm right. Deal with it.

Hilarious. I posted links to stats a lot more current and relevant than the ones you did backing this up. Just change the subject again now you're losing this argument as well. Oh, you already did...

 

[Rusky]

^^^
First of all you posted an article from a humanist website. I'm sure they have a dog in the fight, and find a way to discredit an official unbias uk census poll. To go with the another more favorable poll done just 5 year later.

Heres another poll they mentioned.
In a Mori poll for the Catholic weekly, The Tablet, published May 2005, the decline of religious belief is evident:

• 36% of people in the 18-34 age group in Britain define themselves as atheist or agnostic
• In the population as a whole, 24% say they have no religion

"Two-thirds of the British public consider themselves Christian (including 11% who are Catholics), while one in twelve belong to other religions and a quarter to none. More women are religious than men (20% of women but 29% of men say they have no religion), and the old much more than the young (only 11% of those aged 65-and over are agnostic or atheists, compared to 36% of 18-34 year olds)."

Get the fuck outta here.

 

[Rusky]

Rusky, for fuck sake, YOU don't even really believe that the universe works the way as described in the bible. You haven't INTERNALISED it. If you really thought that everyone and anyone you met could be a demon or devil, and that these monsters were stalking the earth trying to being chaos, terror and the end of humankind, then you wouldn't be able to function properly let alone concentrate on making online monies. If you really believed that you were in the middle of a galactic, supernatural battle between good and evil, you'd be a paranoid, crazy wreck quivering in an asylum.

So you obviously don't believe it to any real psychological depth; you're not convinced on a fundamental level. Your belief is simply an academic acceptance of a story you've been indoctrinated with.

Go read about the absolute ignorance and hysteria that dogged humankind up to the 1500's. THOSE ancestors *really* thought they were living in the world described in the bible, and they fucking acted on it big-time. Your religious belief is a pale, weak superstition in comparison, akin to throwing salt over your shoulder or not stepping on the cracks in the pavement.

Good rant. But I look at more on a quantum level. Not ghosts flying around level.

 

[Chianti]

> Two-thirds of the British public simply regurgitate shit they were told as children
> without thinking about what it is they are actually being asked to subscribe to.

^ fixed

> Not ghosts flying around level

So you accept that the ghosts, angels, demons and magic described in the bible is invented bullshit.
Interesting.

 

[Rusky]

^ ^ ^
My how you atheists give people so much credit. You much be the exceptional few.

 

[BluuueJammm]

^^^
First of all you posted an article from a humanist website.

Lol, you critisise me for this then link to something from Catholic weekly??? Ok, if you're not happy with that one because it doesn't fit in with how you think look at the other one
Religion does more harm than good - poll | UK news | The Guardian

Something else you might like to think about, if I say I'm a football player, but I never actually play football, then am I one?

Anyways, pointless posts really, anyone in the Uk knows what it's like here, just taking a wild swing here, but I'm guessing you're american.

 

[Rusky]

How do you choose your polls. Majority say one thing, including the official census.
The one you pick claims another? Just because you go to church only on holidays. Doesn't make you an atheist.
I love this quote from the article.
"A clear majority, 63%, say that they are not religious - including more than half of those who describe themselves as Christian." Are they just helping themselves to the pie.

 

[BluuueJammm]

I love this quote from the article.
"A clear majority, 63%, say that they are not religious - including more than half of those who describe themselves as Christian." Are they just helping themselves to the pie.

Thing is Rusky when I went to school it was a christian school, we were told we were christians, even though almost everyone I knew thought religion was a crock of shit. I even used to put christian down as my beliefs as I'd been told that was what I was, but if asked I would always say I didn't believe in god and wasn't religious. That's what that poll is describing, and that's the way a lot of people are over here.

 

[-God-]

Thing is Rusky when I went to school it was a christian school, we were told we were christians, even though almost everyone I knew thought religion was a crock of shit. I even used to put christian down as my beliefs as I'd been told that was what I was, but if asked I would always say I didn't believe in god and wasn't religious. That's what that poll is describing, and that's the way a lot of people are over here.

Exactly. And as we've both eluded too, religion is very, very insignificant here. Polls can show otherwise all they want. I see the empty churches. I see the general consensus of not wanting Religion being taught in schools. I see the news criticising religion for being intolerant and stupid.

I see once religious friends: Catholics, Sikhs, Hindus etc., all now atheists. I saw a local church being turned into flats. I have friends who own a church ffs and it's now a massive house. I go to funerals and weddings where there's no cross, no religion, no bible, no hymms, no vicar and no church. It's dying and soon it will be dead. Fingers crossed.

 

[Rusky]

Thing is Rusky when I went to school it was a christian school, we were told we were christians, even though almost everyone I knew thought religion was a crock of shit. I even used to put christian down as my beliefs as I'd been told that was what I was, but if asked I would always say I didn't believe in god and wasn't religious. That's what that poll is describing, and that's the way a lot of people are over here.

Still doesn't automatically make the rest of the pie atheist.

I see the news criticising religion for being intolerant and stupid.

People are intolerant. You blame religion to much.
The real ideas are:

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. - John 8:7

Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater - Mark 12:31

How do you see intolerance in that, and not understand the wisdom behind those words. You're just as blind as you claim others are.

 

[Kryt3n]

People are intolerant. You blame religion to much.
The real ideas are:

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. - John 8:7

Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater - Mark 12:31

How do you see intolerance in that, and not understand the wisdom behind those words. You're just as blind as you claim others are.

Stoning homosexuals to death
Death for apostasy
Punishment for breaking the sabbath
Accepting that the majority of people will burn in hell for eternity

All things you have to believe if you take the bible literally. Would you call this being "tolerant" ?

 

[Russ86]

Ugh, the ignorance on this thread is downright appalling. If you truly believe that the earth is 5000 years old and that dinosaurs and humans were around in that same time frame. You are just choosing to be blindly ignorant to the reality that surrounds you. It's as they say, ignorance is bliss. Perhaps for some people, believing in god is simply an emotional necessity and they will not let it go despite an abundance of evidence being shoved in their faces. Others, whom I believe are the greater minds of today's society, can think for themselves and handle the truth.

 

[clyde]

Still doesn't automatically make the rest of the pie atheist.



People are intolerant. You blame religion to much.
The real ideas are:

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. - John 8:7

Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater - Mark 12:31

How do you see intolerance in that, and not understand the wisdom behind those words. You're just as blind as you claim others are.

 

[Rusky]

WOW WOW Chill out people. Talk about intolerance.

kryt3n - who does all those things that you just mentioned? All I remember in past 100 years is mass murder from the atheistic communists. (over 10 million) Also how about them eugenic darwinists not tolerating the mentally ill people. Killed ten of thousands during our time. Its on Wikipedia, look into it.

Russ86 - first of all its 6000 not 5000.
God doesn't have days, weeks, or years. Most Christians just measure the timeline of the new testament, the bible, and current history. Thats why we have BC (before Christ). Which is proven to be accurate with archeological findings and historic records. More then any book ever written. FACT. If you believe Aristotle was real, so was Abraham, David, Jesus, and Paul. Actually they have more evidence. How long anything took before that no body knows.

and Clyde - do you really make $x,xxx a day. People that do dont say. Do you ever have anything of value to say. You're like the annoying child making noise, when adults are trying to have a conversation.

To me it makes more sense that Aliens planted life on earth. Then pretending like lighting and soup made amino acids, which then somehow formed into proteins, which then found their way to pre-programed DNA, and wolla we have life. Anybody that wants to call me stupid, explain this process to me, and tell me you're not adding faith to your evolutionary equation.

 

[Kryt3n]

WOW WOW Chill out people. Talk about intolerance.

kryt3n - who does all those things that you just mentioned? All I remember in past 100 years is mass murder from the atheistic communists. (over 10 million) Also how about them eugenic darwinists not tolerating the mentally ill people. Killed ten of thousands during our time. Its on Wikipedia, look into it.

Russ86 - first of all its 6000 not 5000.
God doesn't have days, weeks, or years. Most Christians just measure the timeline of the new testament, the bible, and current history. Thats why we have BC (before Christ). Which is proven to be accurate with archeological findings and historic records. More then any book ever written. FACT. If you believe Aristotle was real, so was Abraham, David, Jesus, and Paul. Actually they have more evidence. How long anything took before that no body knows.

and Clyde - do you really make $x,xxx a day. People that do dont say. Do you ever have anything of value to say. You're like the annoying child making noise, when adults are trying to have a conversation.

To me it makes more sense that Aliens planted life on earth. Then pretending like lighting and soup made amino acids, which then somehow formed into proteins, which then found their way to pre-programed DNA, and wolla we have life. Anybody that wants to call me stupid, explain this process to me, and tell me you're not adding faith to your evolutionary equation.

Either you are trying to troll or you're just unbelievably fucking ignorant. Hitler for your information was a roman catholic. Was baptized, mentioned god in several of his speeches and never renounced his faith. And either way there is no pathway from being an atheist to doing bad things. Whoever said BECAUSE IM AN ATHEIST I'm going to murder someone. Hitler, Stalin etc. were motivated by Marxism and a messed up vision of a paradisaical future. Anyones disbelief in god doesn't lead them to do bad things anymore then their disbelief in pink unicorns or fairies. Unlike religion where you can definitely say because i'm a christian I want to kill muslims, because I'm a muslim I'm going to kill christians or fly a plane into buildings etc.