Turning CO2 into Cement (Vinod Kohsla's Favorite Child Project)

I'll watch it. I like hearing what the deniers' camp come up with. I hope you'll do the same and read the "Wimpy PDF" I posted. -I'm sure it won't take even a quarter of the time it will for me to watch your full-featured presentation.

Hopefully I can get to it late tonight.

Just to comment on your point about " If it smells like fear mongering and money it probably is fear mongering and money backing up the fear." -Just remember, BOTH sides could have a lot to gain monetarily. -Most of all the big energy companies. If AGW is widely accepted then people will get serious about solar, wind, and nuke power and BP will be begging for scraps.
 


OK, I've finished it. Wow, where to start...

1. The man has no credentials, just an electrical engineering degree. -He's not qualified to talk about something against a huge, worldwide bunch of specialists with PhDs ON Climatology. -Listening to him was kind of insulting, but I did it this one time so we'd have a frame of reference for this conversation. The VAST number of assumptions he made (And he admitted to more than a few of them) shows that he's no expert, just an enthusiast. no more than an armchair quarterback.

Don't forget, it is a well published fact that 97 out of 100 of climate experts think humans are causing global warming. Who does this shmuck think he is?


2. He pretty much only quoted 4 sources:

A. The IPCC when he wanted to say something was incorrect.
B. Mann when he REALLY wanted to say something was incorrect.
C. "Hadley" when he wanted to agree with it.
D. Himself and the person who he says assisted him in making the presentation.

So basically, he is saying: 'Mann is a fruitcake, the IPCC is just wrong, Myself and my helper are right, and Hadley's work would back me up on many of my points.'

Pure comedy, considering the source. He's Cherry-picking data for sure, as is evident when you realize that "Hadley" is the Hadley center in the UK, a very oft-quoted source for Climate science by both sides, Including in the report I linked to.


3. His claim that in the last decade the heat was trending DOWNWARD is just silly. In fact while he made that film the world was right-smack-dab in the middle of the very hottest heat GROWTH period in history, period. He was quoting old data for sure there, more cherry picking.


4. His attack on "THE HOCKEY-STICK Chart" was also laughable, since there are no less than 4, and I've heard as many as SEVEN hockey-stick charts that strongly correlate. (His was just CO2, when the evidence clearly shows that Atmosphere CO2, Temperature Change, Ocean Warming, Climate Forcing, Temperature change, and of course Man-Made CO2 production charts all have the same hockey-stick shape over the last 1000 years.

This fact is such a solid homerun for AGW supporters that of course he couldn't mention it in his film.

5. His "Famous Picture" (at least he calls it famous) about all the land-based temperature-recording stations being highly biased because they are build on concrete or next to buildings looks like a real serious problem; but in the scheme of things, it is absolutely nothing. From the linked report:

fZ9x5.png


As you can see, he's making a fuss over the wrong kind of heat.


6. I really got miffed at the 1 hour mark in the film when he decided to take matters in his own hands and "Back Trace" the climate prediction models. A four-year-old could have seen through what he did there; he simply said "If our global temperature rises by X degrees in 100 years from now, then 100 years ago we MUST have been X degrees cooler... And since this isn't the case, their warming models are all wrong.

Wow, the lameness of this argument was epic. AGW supporters aren't saying it's a solid trend, in fact they call it climate CHANGE.

Just. Damn. Sad.

I could go on all day about that film but I think you get the point. He just kept making points that sound good in theory but basing them off of cherry-picked data and explaining why he thinks that the IPCC and Gore are wrong.

It's Amateur Opinion.

And it's full of holes I could drive a mac truck through.

Bottom line:

If you were planning to learn how to fly, which of the following would you ask to train you:

A. A licenced pilot with a high degree of training himself

B. An amateur pilot with no license, who talks big like he has flown "lots" before.

?

The 13-page PDF linked above references every little word to the most highly respected Climatologists.

???
 
global warming or not, the most sad part is knowing a new technology will not be created/used because of american corporate culture. Even worse when its every large sector.

Bravo america, bravo.
 
lol global warming... don't believe in it personally. Well not human caused global warming.

Have you guys heard about Carbon Dioxide being released from the ocean caused by Global Warming which is caused by the Sun? Look into it. GW is just a scam to introduce new taxes and to further enslave sheeple. ;)
 
Don't forget, it is a well published fact that 97 out of 100 of climate experts think humans are causing global warming. Who does this shmuck think he is?

You call this study Expert credibility in climate change a well published fact? Reading through that they are manipulating the data quite a ways to support that number, not to mention they are citing "published articles" as the means of arriving at that number and the number of citations those articles receive as means to base their "qualifications".

You don't find a problem with that? If anything it points out exactly what a lot of climate-gate proved in their emails that they were conspiring to keep skeptics papers out of the journals, and that all the scientists continually cite each other to support their own theories in one circle jerk.

Ill even go with the more outlandish theory that even if GW is real, it is only slowing down the inevitable ice age that will once again freeze out the earth ala Fallen Angels
 
Will somebody please tell Andry and Dave that I will not address them until they have read the 13-page report linked to here.

The Deniers on this board have me in Backlog mode. ;)

I read the report. I think it's hard to deny that we aren't contributing to global warming (I still think the report exaggerates how much we are contributing), but I still don't get what the big deal is? Some fish might die? Some people might have to move off the coast 100 years from now (which probably won't happen anyways because by then nanotechnology will solve those problems)? Cry me a fucking river.

And on top of that, there's nothing we can do about it anyways. Even if the United States were to cripple it's economy in order to limit our carbon output, China will be producing more CO2 than us anyways and it's not like they give a shit about the environment.
 
Will somebody please tell Andry and Dave that I will not address them until they have read the 13-page report linked to here.

The Deniers on this board have me in Backlog mode. ;)

I did read it, in fact now I am wondering how well you did? The link I provided is the SOURCE your 13 page report used to justify your statement on "97 out of 100 of climate experts". Me thinks you should do a little more background work before believing a 13 page report, like actually reading their source material.

But on second thought don't bother with "addressing me" your reply shows me exactly how close you actually pay attention to where the information comes from.
 
@Cardine: The Fish are already dead, Cardine. Even the mighty Tuna, a staple crop stuffed into 99cent cans on your local grocer's shelf, has been overfished to a point where the entire species is in jeapordy.

Human population is the driver behind so many extinctions that we don't even need to bring AGW into the conversation before a panic ensues. But then it adds a helluva lot of pressure on the ecosystem, especially towards the lower end of the food web, when things do get too hot and global patterns change.

If we were only talking about 1-3 degrees change in the next 50 years, I'd be totally "meh" on the subject. -But it's so much more than that. From the report:

Between 18 to 35% of plant and animal species could be committed to extinction by 2050. Oceans are absorbing much of the CO in the air, which leads to ocean acidification. This is predicted to have severe destabilising effects on the entire oceanic food-chain, on top of the negative effects of coral bleaching from warming waters (a one-two punch from global warming). An estimated 1 billion people depend on the ocean for a substantial portion (>30%) of their animal protein.

As glaciers and snowfields dwindle, so does the water supply for millions of people who are deeply reliant on those freshwater supplies, especially for irrigated agriculture. Similarly, sea level rise and increased storm activity will affect millions over this century as rice paddies are inundated with salt water, seawater contaminates rivers, aquifers become polluted and populations are displaced. This will force many millions of people to move inland, increasing the risk of conflict.

(I've taken the citations out for simplicity's sake.)

To address your other point, how there is nothing we can do, just embracing the technology that this thread was started about could literally be enough... But no, if people don't believe in CO2 warming then this tecnology goes to china, if it gets picked up at all.

-And there are dozens of such technologies. All ignored and laughed at by ppl like you, and buried by the oil lobby, far away from congress.

Take your nanotech that you mentioned; Why would anyone invent it or especially pay for it's manufacture if noone believes their city is endangered by ocean rise?


Dave_IL said:
I did read it, in fact now I am wondering how well you did? The link I provided is the SOURCE your 13 page report used to justify your statement on "97 out of 100 of climate experts". Me thinks you should do a little more background work before believing a 13 page report, like actually reading their source material.
I apologize for speaking to you in the 3rd; it would appear you deserve my attention more than Rage9 does. ;)

But dude, that's PNAS. Don't be disrespecting. PNAS is one of the few serious places where people with Ph.D.s go to publish papers that don't get published until after peer reviews. -This is a far more serious process than an editorial review, and it requires that someone more qualified than the author of the paper who does NOT have a direct affiliation with the author of the paper (usually someone with an opposite opinion) review and accept it.

In the case of that particular report, it wasn't published for over 4 months after submission. -Since it's such a short paper that's kind of unusual, which usually means it had to be very well reviewed indeed.

What exactly is your problem with that paper? It was often quoted on very respectable blogs I've seen like this one.
 
@Cardine: The Fish are already dead, Cardine. Even the mighty Tuna, a staple crop stuffed into 99cent cans on your local grocer's shelf, has been overfished to a point where the entire species is in jeapordy.

Human population is the driver behind so many extinctions that we don't even need to bring AGW into the conversation before a panic ensues. But then it adds a helluva lot of pressure on the ecosystem, especially towards the lower end of the food web, when things do get too hot and global patterns change.

If we were only talking about 1-3 degrees change in the next 50 years, I'd be totally "meh" on the subject. -But it's so much more than that. From the report:



(I've taken the citations out for simplicity's sake.)

To address your other point, how there is nothing we can do, just embracing the technology that this thread was started about could literally be enough... But no, if people don't believe in CO2 warming then this tecnology goes to china, if it gets picked up at all.

-And there are dozens of such technologies. All ignored and laughed at by ppl like you, and buried by the oil lobby, far away from congress.

Take your nanotech that you mentioned; Why would anyone invent it or especially pay for it's manufacture if noone believes their city is endangered by ocean rise?

Maybe I'm a bit biased, my family is pretty entrenched in the oil business. Although I'm not sure why the oil industry would be against this technology - it in no way harms the oil industry.

But I never said that this 'green' cement is bad. I was simply commenting on the global warming hysteria. Nuclear power will eventually (in my opinion) become our primary source of energy, and that coupled with nanotechnology this global warming issue will go away rather quickly.
 
Haha, no I get it. I do, you're a very adamant climate warmer supporter. It's like me, except I hate on soccer and Bears fans.

The problem with your pdf is that the data it shows only goes back 1800 years tops and most of the graphs show much much less. Really they are just snapshots of a small windows of time vs the actual amount of time earth has been around. How's that for cherry picking? Any idiot who looks at a graph like this:

icecores.gif


Could very well tell you that yes, we are on a warming trend. However this has not been even the most severe warming trend that ice core data has been able to tell us about. In fact it's been the coolest of the last 4 ice ages. It is however the largest amount of CO2 in the air for a given warming trend with current CO2 levels being around 380-390 ppm vs the next high being roughly 230 ppm. However increased CO2 levels have no solid basis it seems ever to actually cause warming trends. In fact, generally speaking, the warming happens well before the actual rise of CO2. Your PDF even shows that we contribute such a mundain amount of CO2 to the overall system, it seems highly unlikely that will have any great effect on the entire system.

Firstly you should be so lucky to be around during a time when the Earth is in the peak of warming trend vs an ice age (don't worry it won't hit full strength for about another 75,000 years at least). Secondly if this kind of long history is any indication, we aren't going to magically fall from the face of the Earth.
 
I read the report. I think it's hard to deny that we aren't contributing to global warming (I still think the report exaggerates how much we are contributing), but I still don't get what the big deal is? Some fish might die? Some people might have to move off the coast 100 years from now (which probably won't happen anyways because by then nanotechnology will solve those problems)? Cry me a fucking river.

And on top of that, there's nothing we can do about it anyways. Even if the United States were to cripple it's economy in order to limit our carbon output, China will be producing more CO2 than us anyways and it's not like they give a shit about the environment.

the chinese dont give a hoot about anyone or anything. maybe its the atheist attitude of no good or bad and heaven or hell, but they had a HUGE oil spill last year around the time BP did and nothing more has been reported on it. BBC News - China oil spill after pipe blast 'worse than thought'