Welfare... Fucking pisses me off

[RoughOutline]

Think most would agree that welfare is good when used correctly, but it is easily exploited and those people who do exploit it are just drains on society.

Definitely situations when welfare is merited, but just because you're able bodied, doesn't mean you don't need welfare.

I'm British, can't imagine how ape shit you guys would go if health care became public.

 

[geomark]

So your issue with welfare is the methods in which the taxes that fund it are collected?

What is your solution then?

I hear a lot of bitching, the only solution I see is "Fuck the poor people" and "The wealthy will take care of the poor, if only they weren't forced to pay taxes"

The funding of welfare is just the beginning of the issues I have with it, and with so many other vile things the government does with our money.

I can't say I have a complete solution, but whatever solution must start with with eliminating state violence as a means to fund the state. A huge part of the problem then takes care of itself because tax revenues would be far less and many of the heinous activities of the state cease due to lack of funds.

I'm doing my part - I left the U.S. and found a way to live well while paying little in taxes. If enough people did that then most of the corrupt murderous bastards in government would be out of a job. That won't happen, but I'm doing my part.

 

[tspesh]

I'm doing my part - I left the U.S. and found a way to live well while paying little in taxes. If enough people did that then most of the corrupt murderous bastards in government would be out of a job. That won't happen, but I'm doing my part.

Exactly. Vote out what you don't like, or leave.

If you don't do either, then shut the fuck up and pay your taxes.

 

[geomark]

Exactly. Vote out what you don't like, or leave.

If you don't do either, then shut the fuck up and pay your taxes.

Except...except...voting is just a big show to make everyone feel like they are actually doing something. Oh crap, you don't really think voting makes any difference, do you? Never mind. I think I'm tired of this thread now. Good night.

 

[RoughOutline]

Yeah, modern democracy is one of the biggest scams going. We should be voting for decisions and legislation, not for people to do this for us, who lie and cheat us.

 

[tspesh]

Except...except...voting is just a big show to make everyone feel like they are actually doing something. Oh crap, you don't really think voting makes any difference, do you? Never mind. I think I'm tired of this thread now. Good night.

No, and this is my entire fucking point.

Again, Good politicians are good because they get laws passed. The moral fiber of a politician has nothing to do with whether or not he's a good politician, just a good person. It's not up to politicians to figure out what gets passed, it's up to them to pass what they want to pass.

It's up to the electorate to figure out what politicians are in office.

There are two problems:
1.) The electorate is dumb
2.) The electoral process is broken and corrupt

The problem isn't baby mama's and schizophrenic 30 year olds, the problem is the election process.

The fact that $1,000,000 well spent on the night before an election actually has an influence is telling that people are fucking retarded and it's also why the $ side of elections needs to be fixed.

 

[danke]

The people that pay you are.

Transitive property.

When I want to appear more intelligent than I am (as you've been doing the whole time in this thread) I also resort to making wild accusations and backing those claims by saying random mathematical terms.

Except I prefer to say things I learned in high school calculus, algebra is so passe. Just quit, literally.

I'm sure you're the smartest guy in the room when you're visiting the department of families and whatever the fuck it is, but you're beyond your depth here.

 

[lukep]

Again, Good politicians are good because they get laws passed. The moral fiber of a politician has nothing to do with whether or not he's a good politician, just a good person. It's not up to politicians to figure out what gets passed, it's up to them to pass what they want to pass.

Waitafuckingminutehere... You define getting a law passed as "Good?"

By that definition, Hitler was fucking AWESOME.

Try again plz.

In this day and age, one where the people simply cannot trust their elected reps to do what's in their best interest, I would personally define a good politician as one who has a solid, unwavering voting record and continues to vote along that record for the rest of his career.

Of course the public is too stupid and carefree to follow a voting record or even view it on opensecrets.org, so I'd guess the public's idea of a "good" politician is one that gives them free shit.

The problem isn't baby mama's and schizophrenic 30 year olds, the problem is the election process.

The correct problem sizes:

Schizophrenic 30 year olds < Baby mamas < Election process < Education of the masses < We have a government at all.

The fact that $1,000,000 well spent on the night before an election actually has an influence is telling that people are fucking retarded and it's also why the $ side of elections needs to be fixed.

Oh you don't have to convince anyone here that the election process is broken... In fact most of us would agree that it is flat-out rigged 100%. There is ample proof of this.

It's just that the election process is small potatoes in comparrison to the fact that the government is EVIL from the inside out... Replacing a person or two in it isn't going to help much... The whole thing is fucked. We've got far bigger fish to fry.

 

[pinchyfingers]

tspesh, while I don't care about the pragmatic arguments against welfare — I'm against welfare solely because it coercive and I'm completely against any kind of government — I think you should re-examine your position that welfare helps pull people out of unfortunate circumstances. If you actually look at how the system works, you'll see that welfare perpetuates poverty rather than eliminating it.

For instance, consider the case of single mother dependent on welfare for her and her children's survival. The single mother loses government assistance if she earns a decent wage or cohabitates with a man. The moment she tries to improve her situation and put herself in a position to get off welfare, her livelihood is taken from her and her family goes hungry. This is why there are a ridiculous number of single mothers who view the monthly government checks as a way of life, not as a temporary aid.

Again, its not a position I care to argue because I'd prefer reverting to the simpler argument that theft of any kind is immoral, but you may want to spend some time thinking through the logistics of a warfare/welfare state.

 

[penguinbc]

....

 

[pixelo]

It's not complicated at all... It's plain obvious; Your money is being forcibly taken from you. There's nothing you can do about it. What's so complicated about that?

Oh, wait, I get it. You are receiving welfare yourself? :disgust:



!

No I'd never go on welfare, even if I lost everything. It's still not inherently bad, just inefficient.

If you can't understand that someone who pays a lot of tax might not agree with you and must be on welfare then there's no hope.

I think it's the ultimate display of selfishness and lack of empathy for people and society to take the view that everyone should pay for themselves. Also tax isn't the redistribution of wealth, two seconds of thought would show that o be nonsense.

 

[tspesh]

Waitafuckingminutehere... You define getting a law passed as "Good?"

By that definition, Hitler was fucking AWESOME.

Try again plz.

You're missing the point.

The onus is on us to get the country we want, not on them. We (supposedly) have the power. If you don't like the job your politician is doing, get rid of him.

A politician that is good is a politician that gets legislature he or she wants to be passed passed. A good electorate ensures that the politicians doing the passing of laws is passing the laws they want.

 

[yourman]

hiii freinds.......

hi frnds,,, hw r u???????

 

[tspesh]

For instance, consider the case of single mother dependent on welfare for her and her children's survival. The single mother loses government assistance if she earns a decent wage or cohabitates with a man. The moment she tries to improve her situation and put herself in a position to get off welfare, her livelihood is taken from her and her family goes hungry. This is why there are a ridiculous number of single mothers who view the monthly government checks as a way of life, not as a temporary aid.

This is actually my biggest issue with welfare. There is no incentive to step a fraction of a step beyond welfare. There could be alternatives though. Food stamps + free education and work placement assistance.

Welfare doesn't just have to be a monthly check. In fact, that's the lazy and ineffective policy.

 

[tspesh]

When I want to appear more intelligent than I am (as you've been doing the whole time in this thread) I also resort to making wild accusations and backing those claims by saying random mathematical terms.

Except I prefer to say things I learned in high school calculus, algebra is so passe. Just quit, literally.

I'm sure you're the smartest guy in the room when you're visiting the department of families and whatever the fuck it is, but you're beyond your depth here.

It must suck losing.

I support the notion of a social welfare. I get to make enough money to pay all my bills and buy cool shit. And I don't hate the country I live in.

You?

*EDIT*

I'll spell out why the tongue-in-cheek reference to the transitive property was relevant (if you really didn't get it, then it makes sense that you also have trouble thinking outside the box a little).

If Canadians benefit from their system in a way that helps enable them to spend money on your shitty Click Bank e-books that you're pimping, then you are therefore benefiting from their system as well.

 

[Kstanki2]

I get to make enough money to pay all my bills and buy cool shit.

So your brother is "incapable of working" and on welfare but you spend your money on "cool shit"? Why don't you bail him out for the rest of his life out of your own pocket, it would be better for everyone else in the country if he leeches off of you instead of us. We don't care about him, you do.

I find it funny that you mentioned Darwinism and 'survival of the fittest' earlier, if our society embraced Darwinism we would let useless people like your brother die in the streets so they don't have the chance to breed.

 

[tspesh]

So your brother is "incapable of working" and on welfare but you spend your money on "cool shit"? Why don't you bail him out for the rest of his life out of your own pocket, it would be better for everyone else in the country if he leeches off of you instead of us. We don't care about him, you do.

I find it funny that you mentioned Darwinism and 'survival of the fittest' earlier, if our society embraced Darwinism we would let useless people like your brother die in the streets so they don't have the chance to breed.

You touch on two points that have been brought up in this thread but it's clear to me that you didn't take the time to read anything.

Go back, re-read the thread, then come in and play, dipshit.

Here is the spark notes version:

The government provides my brother with housing, this enables legal oversight to make sure that he isn't fucking up. A legal authority I do not have. Additionally, what makes you think that we (my family) don't help him out? The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Social Darwinism doesn't work with humans because we've risen above it. Most of us anyways...If you fucking read you'll see that i'm not an advocate, moron.

This is what happens when Social Darwinism is put into effect

The reason you're able to make money off the internet is because we've risen above that.

 

[danke]

It must suck losing.

I support the notion of a social welfare. I get to make enough money to pay all my bills and buy cool shit. And I don't hate the country I live in.

You?

*EDIT*

I'll spell out why the tongue-in-cheek reference to the transitive property was relevant (if you really didn't get it, then it makes sense that you also have trouble thinking outside the box a little).

If Canadians benefit from their system in a way that helps enable them to spend money on your shitty Click Bank e-books that you're pimping, then you are therefore benefiting from their system as well.

lol, I'm going to go windsurf and prepare to pack back on the calories in-between commercials tonight...

Clickbank lol.

Strawmen are easier to knock down I guess.

I'll be sure to check this thread next weekend.

 

[Crynos]

i know an owner of a welfare society in my town, the most loving person, he loves mankind and have found him always devoted to help people around him, even he has created an NGO and himself member of many NGO's... great man with no fall !

/thread

 

[tspesh]

lol, I'm going to go windsurf and prepare to pack back on the calories in-between commercials tonight...

Clickbank lol.

Strawmen are easier to knock down I guess.

I'll be sure to check this thread next weekend.

That's your counter to that post? Weak sauce.