Why are the richest in the US getting another tax break?

[Moxie]

Years later, Ronald Reagan made the same argument and his "tax cuts for the rich" produced the same result.

the famous "tax cut" of 1981 did not cut taxes at all. It's true that tax rates for higher-income brackets were cut; but for the average person, taxes rose, rather than declined. The reason is that, on the whole, the cut in income tax rates was more than offset by two forms of tax increase. One was "bracket creep," a term for inflation quietly but effectively raising one into higher tax brackets, so that you pay more and proportionately higher taxes even though the tax rate schedule has officially remained the same. The second source of higher taxes was Social Security taxation, which kept increasing, and which helped taxes go up overall. Not only that, but soon thereafter; when the Social Security System was generally perceived as on the brink of bankruptcy, President Reagan brought in Alan Greenspan, a leading Reaganomist and now Chairman of the Federal Reserve, to save Social Security as head of a bipartisan commission. The "saving," of course, meant still higher Social Security taxes then and forevermore.

Since the tax cut of 1981 that was not really a cut, furthermore, taxes have gone up every single year since, with the approval of the Reagan administration. But to save the president's rhetorical sensibilities, they weren't called tax increases. Instead, ingenious labels were attached to them; raising of "fees," "plugging loopholes" (and surely everyone wants loopholes plugged), "tightening IRS enforcement," and even revenue enhancements."

The Myths of Reaganomics - Murray N. Rothbard - Mises Daily


Taxes were slightly higher overall under Reagan than on average over the last 40 years. Government spending was also higher, which lead to a tripling of the national debt.

Taxes: What people forget about Reagan - Sep. 8, 2010

 

[About]

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly, regulated by the US department of energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food which has been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.

At the appropriate time as kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved car and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issued by the federal reserve bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the departmental of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, I drive back to my house which has not been burned down thanks to to the state and local building codes and the fire marshal’s inspection, and it has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log onto the internet, which was developed by the US department of defense, and post on the free public access website WickedFire.com about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can’t do anything right.

 

[cougarclaws]

sure is Reddit in here

 

[BigWill]

That simple paragraph is so delusional, it's almost frightening, let alone the rest of your post. I love it when people rush to internet forums to defend the free markets and the wealthy elite, as if they're part of the club. Guess what? You're NOT part of the wealthy elite. How do I know? You're posting on a message forum called Wicked Fire.

.

lol... You don't know what the income is on some of the guys on this forum...

Someone ban this idiotic welfare mooching little bitch

 

[BilltheButcher]

Gonna re-submit my past taxes and get money back based on 29%?

 

[Shaqsquash]

The lesser rich £40m – £74m The comfortably rich £75m – £99m The rich £100m – £199m The seriously rich £200m – £399m The truly rich £400m – £999m The filthy rich Over £1bn The super rich

I know quite a few people on this board, that fall into those ranges - though none in the filthy rich category or above.

LMAO.

You honestly think there are people on this board who are worth $80 million (in american dollars) or more? :1orglaugh:

Just because they told you? They would probably lead your little ass into a dark alley with candy and rape your ass.

The real rich (not the many wannabe rich here) with over $80 million in assets simply don't hang out on internet forums. They are too busy servicing or growing their assets or yachting or networking with other really rich people. At most you might get a few guys here worth a couple million. And even that's few and far between.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

You don't know what a free market is. A free market doesn't include interference by government.

Fuck me. Had a horrible day, then come back, and read idiotic shit like this. Guess who created a good portion of the current US government? That's right! Big business and corporations. Again, free market at its finest. They were given free reign to do whatever they want, and the entrepreneurs with no moral compass took full advantage of that.

Like it or not, THAT is the free market you guys are defending, and the wealthy elite you're defending are destroying your customer base. This stuff about "that's corportaism, not capitalism" is retarded too, because one naturally breeds from the other. Either you have corportaism, or you hinder capitalism's growth through regulation. You can't have it both ways.

Sorry, shitty mood tonight.

 

[BigWill]

Fuck me. Had a horrible day, then come back, and read idiotic shit like this. Guess who created a good portion of the current US government? That's right! Big business and corporations. Again, free market at its finest. They were given free reign to do whatever they want, and the entrepreneurs with no moral compass took full advantage of that.

Like it or not, THAT is the free market you guys are defending, and the wealthy elite you're defending are destroying your customer base. This stuff about "that's corportaism, not capitalism" is retarded too, because one naturally breeds from the other. Either you have corportaism, or you hinder capitalism's growth through regulation. You can't have it both ways.

Sorry, shitty mood tonight.

Dude you are so fucking stupid there isn't even a point to intelligently reply to you anymore. Holy fuck your parents must have down syndrome to breed a dumb ass piece of shit like you.

I hope you die in a fire.

 

[JakeStratham]

You guys should present your definitions of a free market. Any discrepancy will be a hurdle to convincing each other about where a free market leads.

Here's a good place to start:

Free market: a market where all decisions regarding transfer of money, goods (including capital goods), and services are voluntary.

That's the litmus test. If there is any element that conflicts with the above, then what we have cannot be defined as a pure free market. That means taxation, any form of regulation, minimum wage laws, etc.

Furthermore, that means any outcome of what is currently in place cannot be blamed on a free market.

 

[Insomniac]

LMAO.

You honestly think there are people on this board who are worth $80 million (in american dollars) or more? :1orglaugh:

Just because they told you? They would probably lead your little ass into a dark alley with candy and rape your ass.

The real rich (not the many wannabe rich here) with over $80 million in assets simply don't hang out on internet forums. They are too busy servicing or growing their assets or yachting or networking with other really rich people. At most you might get a few guys here worth a couple million. And even that's few and far between.

I can think of three people on this board right now, who own companies valued at over $100mm. I know this, because I've worked with them. Do they post a lot here? Nope.

Couple of million is seriously fuck all. Plenty of those around.

 

[MSTeacher]

Free market: a market where all decisions regarding transfer of money, goods (including capital goods), and services are voluntary.

i lol'd

that explains a lot for me, thanks.

 

[slayerment]

Fuck me. Had a horrible day, then come back, and read idiotic shit like this. Guess who created a good portion of the current US government? That's right! Big business and corporations. Again, free market at its finest. They were given free reign to do whatever they want, and the entrepreneurs with no moral compass took full advantage of that.

Like it or not, THAT is the free market you guys are defending, and the wealthy elite you're defending are destroying your customer base. This stuff about "that's corportaism, not capitalism" is retarded too, because one naturally breeds from the other. Either you have corportaism, or you hinder capitalism's growth through regulation. You can't have it both ways.

Sorry, shitty mood tonight.

I could see the argument you are making as the first step of these businesses operating under capitalism was to take over the government. The problem is, under socialism or any other type of government this takeover would have happened even faster. So the argument starts to go outside of the type of government and comes down to the people. Criminals are less effective in capitalism. Our free markets allowed people to stay informed with non-biased information. People were able to protest. People were able to expose the criminals. And it worked for a while. But Americans couldn't hold out forever and eventually we lost. The takeover wasn't really a result or a by-product of capitalism. It was a result of people choosing not to regulate their own government. It doesn't really have to do with capitalism. If the people were serious about being free they would have stamped out these criminals as soon as they made their way into congress. If the people were better educated they would have known the pitfalls of socialism, but life's not perfect. And the people did have many victories throughout history against these criminals taking over our government. We stopped them from setting up a central bank 3 times prior to the Federal Reserve. Andrew Jackson is known primarily as stopping the powerful banker Nicholas Biddle in his attempt to discredit the free market and take over the money supply. We have had many small victories.

The fall was a result of what people like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin predicted. In order for the people to remain free they had to remain educated. They became uneducated and lost their freedom. It's like most things, once you make money you become complacent and spoiled and your defenses drop. You get drunk, you get stupid and you lose what you had. Freedom was an experiment and the people weren't ready for it yet. They couldn't handle success. They couldn't handle being free. And it's hard to be free. America has been a primary target for 200 years and when you are getting hit from every angle it is hard to keep your defenses up.

But there is obviously a lot more to this... most of the people who took over America aren't capitalists, they're not even Americans. America has primarily been taken over by European royalty and banking interests. The Rothschilds and Warburgs have financed many people like JP Morgan and Jacob Schiff to manipulate Americans into acquiescing to their takeover. They have financed corporations in America from just about every angle to take us over. So it really isn't capitalists doing this. These European royals and bankers didn't become wealthy through capitalism. The more obvious question would be to ask, how did these European bankers become wealthy? Because that is the real problem we are talking about. If anything it is imperialists from other countries operating in semi-free market America to take it over. They take over the media and do what they want. And yes, if we were 100% perfect we would stop supporting their media and they would go out of business. But not everyone gets what freedom is. And as they buy into the bullshit of socialism it slowly spreads. Ignorance is contagious. Misery loves company. Being free is hard. Being a slave is easy. People are usually more inclined to take the easy road.

So it really isn't capitalism that brought America down, capitalism is what kept it going for so long. Capitalism is what brought us from 3rd world to 1st world in one century. We did all this without an income tax or a central bank. Now that we have both of these things we are on our way back down. Capitalism is what helped and continues to help civilize the rest of the world. Under socialism or communism or fascism we would have been taken over before we even started.

We can attack capitalism all we want but it is quite futile. You can poke holes in anything. Capitalism isn't perfect. But it is like night and day in comparison to all the collectivist frauds like socialism and communism.

Again, much more to this topic but just adding my thoughts.

 

[ly2 from WF]

I never realized there was such a strong and healthy population of commies on WF. I feel like I am in /r/politics

 

[gotthefeeling]

Fuck Ron Paul (freemason/skull & bones)

LOL @ sheeple - they just dont get it.

 

[jenzkc]

what they need to get rid of is the self-employment tax. that's what fucks everything up. work on a W2, pay 25% tax. work on a 1099, pay 39% tax.

 

[MSTeacher]

+rep slayerment

Our free markets allowed people to stay informed with non-biased information.

I'd say by the time we became an information based society and an international industrial superpower the bad guys already had a strong foot hold, circa 1895 Gover Cleveland who bowed down to JPM. Certainly in deep by 1913. And I don't think 'free market' has ever been an appropriate term to describe the philosophy of American political economy.

The takeover wasn't really a result or a by-product of capitalism. It was a result of people choosing not to regulate their own government. It doesn't really have to do with capitalism.

True and in so doing regulating predatory markets.

We stopped them from setting up a central bank 3 times prior to the Federal Reserve. Andrew Jackson is known primarily as stopping the powerful banker Nicholas Biddle in his attempt to discredit the free market and take over the money supply. We have had many small victories.

I assume your saying this means you understand that the COnstitution mandates Congress - not the mystical market - to create money and regulate the value thereof and set weights and measures. People -> Congress -> Currency -> Markets -> Wealth

Voters control the Congress. Congress controls the money. a=b b=c a=c

The fact that most people think the Fed is a government body is enough reason not to debate economics at all these days.

The fall was a result of what people like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin predicted. In order for the people to remain free they had to remain educated. They became uneducated and lost their freedom.

Things like this are hard to point fingers over and say it was the government's fault or this person's fault. Rockefeller funded the destruction of our educational system, government did nothing about it, voters sat around playing baseball. Fuck.

Freedom was an experiment and the people weren't ready for it yet. They couldn't handle success. They couldn't handle being free. And it's hard to be free. America has been a primary target for 200 years and when you are getting hit from every angle it is hard to keep your defenses up.

I think people are always ready to be free, whatever that may or may not mean to people. I think it's more like you say that we've been a target since our birth. When a good example of freedom comes around it inspires the enemies of freedom to bring it down all the faster.

America has primarily been taken over by European royalty and banking interests. The Rothschilds and Warburgs have financed many people like JP Morgan and Jacob Schiff to manipulate Americans into acquiescing to their takeover. They have financed corporations in America from just about every angle to take us over.

So I might as well ask as always, given our current circumstances, how does deregulation help prevent this malignant influence?

Being free is hard. Being a slave is easy. People are usually more inclined to take the easy road.

Being free is hard. Way harder than being rich...

And yes, if we were 100% perfect we would stop supporting their media and they would go out of business. But not everyone gets what freedom is. And as they buy into the bullshit of socialism it slowly spreads.

Socialism on one side, fascism on the other. Labels aside it's plain and simple tyranny in 47 flavors. They take what they can get.

Capitalism isn't perfect. But it is like night and day in comparison to all the collectivist frauds like socialism and communism.

Capitalism fucking rocks. It places the acquisition of independent wealth at the core of its principles. Historically speaking that's pretty fucking cool.

 

[eliquid]

nigga's you mad, like jbmad

 

[zxcvb]

lol... You don't know what the income is on some of the guys on this forum...

$27,000?

about 27k yesterday, that doesn't include the 30k off google stock or other stocks

 

[InternetAuthor]

Intelligent poor people aye?

Exactly what makes someone in the armed forces intelligent?

Those who can't do, teach. The only teachers I had, which had even the slightest understanding of how the world works, were physics teachers.

Same as above.

Part time professors? We're talking full-time jobs here.

Journalists are dumb as fucking rocks. They fail to do even the slightest bit of fact checking, time and time again.

Arts students - would you like fries with that? Have not met an intelligent one yet.

1. Soldiers - Our troops may not be the brightest of the bunch, but a lot of them come back with no arms and legs and then nobody gives a fuck about them. And the DoD (aka da gubbermint) pretty much ignores them. That's pretty fucked up considering these guys put their lives on the line while the children of our politicians are safe at home spending daddy's money.

2. Teachers - You know why our teachers are so fucking dumb? Because the pay is so shitty that no smart person would want to become a teacher. So we have a bunch a dummies teaching the next generation. What do you think will happen? What we need to do is make teaching a well-paying prestigious job (like being a tenured university professor), fire all the dumb fucks, and replace them with smart people who will be attracted by the good pay.

3. Journalists are stupid. I agree.

4. Art students are not necessarily stupid. I've met plenty of smart ones, but the smarties always have parents who were fucking loaded so they didn't give a shit about making money.

Maybe they should make more money? I would comment further but someone already commented on this already

Yes, many of the working poor are planning to make more or they opt for low-paid positions for other reasons.

The new adjunct professor might not have a tenured spot yet and has to pay his dues for a few years first - a few years might stretch to ten. It's the nature of the game.

The guys in the army might be most interested in the benefits and training available from the VA program, especially if they don't have money to better themselves and see the military as a way to break out or get away from their old life. They do a few years, get college paid for and move on as they like.

Sure there are teachers who aren't very smart and I've worked with a ton of them. But I've worked with extremely intelligent ones who love their subject areas. This is especially true in the upper grade levels.

If you've met a smart teacher in Physics, is so hard to imagine that there are others in different subject areas who enjoy teaching for reasons others than the money? If someone goes into teaching for money, they are pretty stupid. I walked away from a Big 5 consulting job to teach (and took a XX,XXX paycut at the same time) because I realized rather early on that there is more to life than drinking scotch straight-up, joining the right club and selling my soul for cash when I make manager/partner.

I have many friends who teach for similar reasons - some who were museum curators but didn't find a good fit for such specialized knowledge and teach because otherwise they wouldn't be working with their specialty. Others who worked in forensics, but didn't like the hours and invasive nature of the work. And yes, some teachers who are truly working for the paycheck - you can't get rid of all of them. Fortunately, I can afford my lifestyle because I make more writing than I do teaching, but I do both because I enjoy both.

Art students and journalists are in love with a craft - they are passionate about something and it doesn't always bring them big bucks. Should they walk away from a passion for cash? Sure, if it's that important to them.

Usually those who opt for working in the field go in knowing they will either have to "sell out" or just get by with less early on. I'm not sure this makes them dumb because they would rather paint and live in a studio than work in a cube somewhere to make the numbers that advance them into the "smart zone."

You don't have to work for the almighty dollar to be smart - sometimes being smart means finding a way to do what you love regardless of income. But this isn't necessarily the right sentiment about a thread on entitled poor and capitalism, so I'll bow out gracefully.

 

[YouDontKnowMe]

You ready for this... Don't be stupid move if you only make 30 in an area that has a higher cost of living.... Logic solves all life problems. With an industry that requires out the box thinking you would think there wouldnt be so many narrow minded ass wads like your self

You missed the point. You claimed that $30k = comfortable living. I said that you were wrong. Now you're all butthurt and think that I make $30k.

1. Newsflash - I make way more than $30k, so I don't have to move.

2. Even if I only make $30k, did I get to choose where the fuck I was born? Why don't you go to a hospital in Manhattan and tell all the newborn babies there how stupid they are for "deciding" to live in a place where things cost more.

3. Moving a family, a house full of furniture and belongings, and a vehicle halfway across the country easily costs $10k+ so you're saying it's a good idea to spend over 1/3 of your annual income to move? Most people that earn in the $30k range in the metropolitan area can barely pay their rent and bills. How are they suddenly supposed to cough up 10 G's to move?

Funny that you talk about logic when your own conclusions don't even follow logic.