Deception is a huge problem in China because there's no rule of law there. If China had a better legal system, there would be a lot less deception because the risks would be higher.
You've been warned
- Thread starter acidie
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Deception is a huge problem in China because there's no rule of law there. If China had a better legal system, there would be a lot less deception because the risks would be higher.
I'm glad you love living in HK, and good for you. If it makes you happy, that's all the matters. However, you continue to preach about it as if it's some bastion of freedom, and a shining light the rest of the world should follow, which just isn't true.
- Top politicians and their cohorts were imprisoned in Dec 2014 due to corruption.
- Just recently there were massive protests that made headline news for months, due to the undemocratic process in HK. The protests shut down the city so much, the police ended up having to get nasty to restore order.
- Although HK does have elections, the only people allowed on the ballot are still approved by Beijing. This one was actually confirmed just a few days ago by the HK parliament.
- Loads of people there currently live in absolute squalor, and there is no safety net for them.
- Immigrants who work as domestic servants have almost no rights, and aren't allowed citizenship by law, regardless of how many years they've lived / worked in HK.
And I could go on for another several pages, but doesn't matter. I'm happy you like HK, and good for you. However, without question it has its own share of problems like every other country does.
- Top politicians and their cohorts were imprisoned in Dec 2014 due to corruption.
- Just recently there were massive protests that made headline news for months, due to the undemocratic process in HK. The protests shut down the city so much, the police ended up having to get nasty to restore order.
- Although HK does have elections, the only people allowed on the ballot are still approved by Beijing. This one was actually confirmed just a few days ago by the HK parliament.
- Loads of people there currently live in absolute squalor, and there is no safety net for them.
- Immigrants who work as domestic servants have almost no rights, and aren't allowed citizenship by law, regardless of how many years they've lived / worked in HK.
And I could go on for another several pages, but doesn't matter. I'm happy you like HK, and good for you. However, without question it has its own share of problems like every other country does.
One politician was imprisoned.
The police handled the protesters no less worse than how police handled the Occupy Wallstreet protests.
If I remember right, the Thai government went on a killing spree during some of its past protests.
The ballot for the legislative council (HK's parliament) is completely open and anyone can be on the ballot and run for office via a universal suffrage election. Same goes with the district councils.
However currently the Chief Executive is not elected via universal suffrage unlike half of the legislative council. Instead he is elected by a 1200 member Election Committee that mostly represents business and professional groups and is heavily influenced by Beijing. Democrats would still be placed on the ballot, but they have no chance of winning the election.
The government wanted to change this to allow the CE to be voted in via universal suffrage, but the ballot would have been vetted by a Nominating Committee that would be heavily Beijing influenced like the election committee.
The Legislative Council voted against this proposal because it violates Articles 25 (everyone is equal before the law), 26 (permanent residents have the right to vote and stand for election) , and 39 (The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights shall apply to Hong Kong) of the HK constitution.
The proposal would have prevented democrats from being on the Chief Executive ballot as you have noted, since they'd be screened out from the ballot by the Nominating Committee. It would have allowed the CE candidate who wins the election have a stolen mandate of the people rather than no mandate like it is currently which serves as a check against the CE's powers.
Permanent residents have the right to welfare, including the right to apply for public housing and CSSA payments. Most poor people in HK live in public housing, and it's not living in absolute squalor. The ones that don't either aren't permanent residents and have to live in subdivided homes or they are permanent residents but still on the waiting list for public housing.
The government has been building more public housing units to reduce the waiting list. Elderly people have priority in gaining public housing.
Currently it takes about 5 years to get a public house if you apply today.
Also Hong Kong has free health care as well, which is a welfare benefit that neither China nor the US offer. HK pulls it off without massive tax burdens either since HK is a low tax jurisdiction.
Also Hong Kong isn't one of those cities where you walk around and see poverty everywhere. It's a wealthy looking city with great infrastructure, but like every country out there there's going to be people who slip through the cracks.
Hong Kong also has some of the lowest violent crime rates in the world. This should tell you something.
This is true. This applies only to Filipino and Indonesian domestic helpers because they are given a special employment contract that states they are not "ordinary residents" and therefore do not quality for permanent residency after 7 years. It's unfortunate, and I don't agree with this practice. But that's how it is. The Court of Final Appeal has ruled that it's legal because the contracts these helpers sign clearly state that they will not quality for permanent residency.
All other immigrants do not have these restrictions, and quality for permanent residency after 7 years. I've gotten mine without any problems.
I never said it was perfect, but it's a huge step up from mainland China or a Thailand military dictatorship.
Also my point still stands that the legal system in Hong Kong is superior to China and Thailand.
You don't even have the right to protest in Thailand anymore. In Hong Kong, you still have the right to protest. The annual July 1st protest is coming up.
Also another big thing about HK is its private property protections. There is no civil forfeiture in Hong Kong. The HK government can't sue your property and then take it away from you in an instant like the US government can.
BCG you're obviously biased, which is fine, no harm no foul.
But if you seriously think that article is 100% legit, I have a bridge to sell you. Cheap, only one owner who was a little old lady who used it on weekends.
This is straight up bullshit and it's blatantly obvious bullshit.
"OMG some guy is going to kill himself... Ok fuck my fans I'll take the $1.5 million, BUT only because I care about this guy's life!"
"If I truly cared about his life I would do it for free, but nar I'll take $1.5 million as well as saving his life, see how fucking nice I am?!"
It's funny no one though to record the conversations after shit started to go south, specifically the one where local promoters "admit to fraud".
But yer small digital recorders are hard to get and no one had a mobile phone handy, eh worst of luck.
I could go on, but please if you going to shit on China, at least do it with something that isn't obviously 100% spin.
I was looking forward to reading something that would increase my knowledge about China and instead got "Chinese are cheats and lairs says ex NBA star, fuck those slant eyed gooks!"
Side Note: I'm not saying China is perfect, no country is, what I am saying is this is just 100% garbage and I want my 10 minutes back.
Secretly recording calls is illegal in most jurisdictions and won't be admissible in court. Say what you want, but when it comes to contracts this article is totally spot on; contracts are blatantly ignored in China more frequently than they're respected. Have you done any business in China at all?
I don't believe Iverson's statements saying that it's "not about the money" or "I didn't want this guy to kill himself". But that isn't the point. The experience regarding respect and enforcement of contracts in China is very familiar to anyone who has done business in China and that's the point.
You can still setup good business deals in China, but you need to be extremely careful because your chances of getting fucked over are much higher because of the lack of a strong legal system and the people trying to work you over know this.
There are still opportunities in China. I still have one of my products manufactured in China. But you're a fool if you're going to completely dismiss the article's breach of contract claims simply because the basketball player said some things that activate your cynical side.
This applies to secretly recording conversations too. Not admissible in court in many jurisdictions.
Thanks for clarifications. I do know Chinese tourists prefer spending vacations in the EU if they can afford it. February is huge shopping time in the EU, because Chinese tourists spend literally wagons of cash on EU goods and services. I do not care for their passports and I do not communicate with them, as our business interests do not meet.
However, 4 million of Chinese tourists, visiting Europe each year are nothing compared to dozens of millions of domestic tourists. I clearly understand they go from the North to the South not because they love China so much, only because they have no other choice - but they bring money and spend it IN China and ON Chinese goods and services. Out of pure necessity, of course - but it does not change the result a bit.
I do not doubt they prefer European goods, yet many of them have to consume Chinese products as they have no other choice. WHEN they have this choice, they may switch sides - and THAT is what my posts in this thread are about. If you are going for Chinese market - provide superior service at lower costs than your competition (which is tough) and get a reliable Chinese partner (which is even tougher, IMO). But if you succeed - possibilities will be immense.
Thanks for your clarifications, you told many interesting things about China I was not aware of.
I just told what I know and what I heard. If your experience and understanding of topic is better than mine - no shame in admitting the obvious.
It's not about court, it's about posting a recording on the internet that proves what they are saying, adding weight and legitimacy.
They didn't do that because they are full of shit.
I'm not blowing any minds, I'm just stating the obvious.
And this is my point and I agree with you 100%. Be smart and be safe when doing business in China, or any country for that matter.
My disappointment comes from articles like the one you posted in the fact I learn nothing new, it's just a bunch of assholes talking shit about people they have beef with.
I know China is risky, I don't need some ex-NBA guy crying over not getting his rub-n-tug in the morning as per contractual agreement.
Recording a call without permission is a criminal offense in many jurisdictions. In most US states it's a felony. They're also in the middle of suing these two Chinese agents. In light of this how can it possibly be a good idea to post an illegal recording?
They're not recording the conversation in New York, the fact that they flew from New York is irrelevant. If they are trying to sue these guys in a Chinese court, then it's better not to post such recordings public until after the lawsuit is settled.
Also it doesn't sound like they recorded the call.
Not what I mean't. I was just talking about one place where it wasn't illegal.
My reason for the "record it" comment is because it would play better for PR, and given the article embedded a YouTube video they obvious care about that.
But in the end it doesn't matter it's just 1 of millions of China bashing articles floating around the net.
Everyone is biased, my self included, I just prefer to read articles that I learn something from.
Just wanted to throw in a bit, I think majority states you do not need permission but just need to let the party know your actions (going off memory, I think ~20 you need permission). I used to use Uberconference and they record all calls but they just say at the start of the call 'this call is being recorded', had to look into laws. I'm no lawyer obviously but the laws would apply where the recording is taking place, not where the person is calling from.
Julian is right, if before the call it says. "This call may be recorded" and you continue, it's on you.