PPP Poll: Ron Paul takes lead in Iowa

Rage9 said:
Pretty trivial shit.
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Lol, yeah, I was reading it at the same time.

Did anyone else notice how every time Paul said something bad about the repug party on that page the score was "TRUE" and they said something emotionally-charged and enthusiastic like: "So true, he's understating it"

Politifact = Libtards.
 


lukep said:
Politifact = Libtards.
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I'm not sure I would go that far, I think they generally do a decent job of keeping things on an even keel. It's hard when you have to rate statements from so many different people and so many different political standpoints. However Ron Paul comes out much more good than bad.
 
Rage9 said:
One of those false is where he says the US is basically bankrupt. They lay out the logic that yes, we are in a lot of debt but we can keep things moving so we are not bankrupt. Which although I guess is true, but is missing the point.
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I don't think it refutes the point but it doesn't entirely miss it either. I think the better question is bankrupt compared to what? Wall Street? And to the extent that we are breaking the bank, why is that? The Fed? Hmm.

Ron Paul said:
....So you have to allow liquidation of debt, eliminate the malinvestment. Then you go back and you can get growth again by having a better tax structure, lower taxes, invite capital back into this country, get a lot less regulations. And under those conditions, you can have growth again.
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Sorry doc but that's a stale old turd of a talking point. Get your Ross Perot on buddy. Are there no graph makers in Austria?
 
MSTeacher said:
I don't think it refutes the point but it doesn't entirely miss it either. I think the better question is bankrupt compared to what? Wall Street? And to the extent that we are breaking the bank, why is that? The Fed? Hmmm
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Well the point is, if you take any other person, or company, not government, and you say, this is how much debt you have, and this is how much you take in (I don't have the figures in front of me right now), in all logic you are deeply broke and probably can't recover. However because it's the government and you can print endless money and pull large financial tricks you can claim you're not 'bankrupt'. That's the point.

It's not that the government is bankrupt but that if it was any other entity it would be. So how can't that raise red flags when the government just continues with business as normal? Obviously they have no intention of actually getting out of the debt, instead they'll tax and or devalue currency to make up the shortfall. It's non-sustainable.
 
I'm just glad ron paul gave us the ability to debate about the differences between liberal and conservative points. Up until he started running we had a choice between neoliberal and neoconservative. Between war and war. Between debt and debt. Between income taxes and inflation. :)
 
SkyFire said:
Uh, no. Ron Paul didn't run for President last election, he ran for the Republican Nomination, and lost - Obama, not being a Republican, was never on a ballot against Paul.

Your post fails on at least 3 factual levels.
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i dont remember what i ate for dinner yesterday, my point remains. liberals hop on the RP wagon and pump him up then turn around with the racist/anti-jew bullshit once they have created enough of a stirring with the rep runners.
 
Rage9 said:
Well the point is, if you take any other person, or company, not government, and you say, this is how much debt you have, and this is how much you take in (I don't have the figures in front of me right now), in all logic you are deeply broke and probably can't recover. However because it's the government and you can print endless money and pull large financial tricks you can claim you're not 'bankrupt'. That's the point.

It's not that the government is bankrupt but that if it was any other entity it would be. So how can't that raise red flags when the government just continues with business as normal? Obviously they have no intention of actually getting out of the debt, instead they'll tax and or devalue currency to make up the shortfall. It's non-sustainable.
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replace 'the government' with 'jpm/goldman/citi/boa/aig' in your post. the only difference is they're overleveraged a few orders of magnitude more than the government.

that and when it's the government in question wall street calls it sovereign debt and the ratings agencies tisk tisk. when it's speculators in question they celebrate the triumph of the evolving market and insist that no one regulate their wonderfully creative financial instruments as they strip assets and destroy everything they can get their hands on. and then blackmail congress whenever they need something.

oh and also that the fed empties its cup for wall street at dog shit rates and doesn't give squat to the very government that legislated it into being.

it's worth keeping in mind that the fed manipulates currency and steers the economy into ruin on behalf of wall street - and neither the fed nor wall street are government agencies.

i'm not excusing dc's role in this at all, believe me. they enable the whole thing and they have the power to stop it and they' don't and that is a severe problem.

if rp wanted to address this issue by following the constitution's currency laws - and it looks like he doesn't - he would be planning to nationalize the fed into the treasury, put the legislative power of coining and regulating money back into the hands of congress, and push americans to demand better fiscal policy from their representatives.

i gather he's not a fan of government currency at all so maybe that's why he's not talking about this.

or maybe cuz threatening wall street's direct line to the world's wealth is the kind of shit that gets people shot.
 
MSTeacher said:
i gather he's not a fan of government currency at all so maybe that's why he's not talking about this.
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He is not. Taking the currency away from the FED and giving it to the Congress is only a marginal tweak. No one trusts Congress to do the right thing and they can be just as secretive and corrupt as the FED.

The only way to safeguard a monetary system is to leave it in the market, and let the people choose what they can confidently trade in.

If more people understood the money system, I am pretty sure they would take away the money power from the state, regardless of country. It is the biggest and most dangerous racket in the history of mankind, and most people are completely oblivious to it.
 
Glenn Beck is a flip flopper and will probably stab Ron Paul in the face next week, but here is a pretty funny conversation with some fanatical christian woman.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyx9tw0TEPM]Glenn Beck tells AMERICA WE MUST support Ron Paul - YouTube[/ame]




Also, Stefan Molyneux, a voluntarist anarchist (yay!) who I like a lot, posted this

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axN53qCJChY]Ron Paul Is Not a Racist - YouTube[/ame]
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sMALbhJU6M"]Type O Negative - Christian Woman - YouTube[/ame]
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6efKKFFLZJs]Chuck Norris's One Wish (with the Help of Ron Paul) - YouTube[/ame]
 
guerilla said:
He is not. Taking the currency away from the FED and giving it to the Congress is only a marginal tweak. No one trusts Congress to do the right thing and they can be just as secretive and corrupt as the FED.

The only way to safeguard a monetary system is to leave it in the market, and let the people choose what they can confidently trade in.

If more people understood the money system, I am pretty sure they would take away the money power from the state, regardless of country. It is the biggest and most dangerous racket in the history of mankind, and most people are completely oblivious to it.
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Besides the fact that I work with Guerilla, doesn't mean we are that close, however I have to agree with him. You can not hand it over to congress they are corrupt as shit.

I don't know the true answer, all I know is we have to get it away from the feds as fast as possible.
 
MSTeacher said:
replace 'the government' with 'jpm/goldman/citi/boa/aig' in your post. the only difference is they're overleveraged a few orders of magnitude more than the government.
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Are you trying to tell me only banks are fucking over everything? Where the fuck do you think they got the idea? You're blaming the institutions where you should be blaming the people that allow them to leverage more than 10:1. Leveraging at all is dagerouse, but all these ass holes would rather vote for someone that will just allow for everyone to do the same. Too big to fail is bullshit over any comapany. They can and will get ate up by a number of other company's, our government should let the free market do their thing.
 
ly2 from WF said:
i dont remember what i ate for dinner yesterday, my point remains. liberals hop on the RP wagon and pump him up then turn around with the racist/anti-jew bullshit once they have created enough of a stirring with the rep runners.
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This is just plain bullshit paranoia. As one of the liberals you're referring too, I can honestly say there is no freakin bait and switch agenda out there. At this point*, I would very much like to see Ron Paul succeed.

*Disclosure:I always reserve the right to change my mind especially if he turns into another fucking flip flopping politician appeasing the christian right.
 
Deliguy said:
I'm just glad ron paul gave us the ability to debate about the differences between liberal and conservative points. Up until he started running we had a choice between neoliberal and neoconservative. Between war and war. Between debt and debt. Between income taxes and inflation. :)
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Well said. If no other point, at least it would finally make an election interesting.
 
turbolapp said:
*Disclosure:I always reserve the right to change my mind especially if he turns into another fucking flip flopping politician appeasing the christian right.
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He hasn't changed in over 30 years. You know men, once we get one good idea, we run with it as long as we can.
 
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