Back to the working world...

Add value, real value or your fucked. Its that simple.

Own sites or products you'd recommend to somone face to face and would love to show google. Start a business, not look for simple arbitrage opps.

op did u ever mail? And what's ur new job?
 


OP, you're entirely correct. It sounds like you were spoiled by affiliate marketing.

I honestly look to affiliate marketers for cutting edge insight into squeezing every penny out of my Internet Marketing campaigns, but I've never been a full-time affiliate marketer (So I honestly don't know what easy money from the Internet feels like just for putting up an adwords campaign.)... Even though, when I was DEAD BROKE... Picking up spare change around my apartment for food for the week I never considered getting a job. Just didn't cross my mind.

I'm not attacking your work ethic or character, but it sounds like you were more of a guy who came across how to make quick money than you are an entrepreneur or that you didn't have the drive to turn your early successes into a business empire of sorts... (Which in all honestly is mind-boggling that you'd watch people making millions pushing offers through affiliates and never made your own. Shit, even I'm launching a few health products through aff networks right now and I've never been a health affiliate.)

If I can offer any advice it would be to ALWAYS BE HUNGRY and NEVER BE SATISFIED.

I also don't see why you couldn't just throw together a media kit, build a bunch of websites so you had a portfolio of "clients", and start cold-walking businesses offering a free marketing audit, then up-selling yourself for a few hundred dollars on the spot. Gosh, I don't know why you couldn't of programmed yourself together a niche local business directory and offered free spots with optional sponsored listings, then went ahead and hooked up with local marketing businesses selling access to your business leads, "Who are interested in online marketing" for a nominal fee.

Heck, I don't know why you couldn't of simply taken 20K of that 60K you made your first year and started developing products based on what your most successful affiliate campaigns were sending traffic to.

Geeze, I don't know why you couldn't of taken a UBot Studio license and bombarded the shit out of Craigslist's services section selling moving and labor while farming out the work, eventually getting licensing and working your own leads...

Not that I know anything about making money. We all know that WickedFire doesn't have anyone that actually makes money. I mean... it's not like I have gmario lambos or anything... but I'm doing alright for a young guy.

That.

You guys always look for the quick buck, because you need your fix or something. Youre no better than the crackniggers you make fun of. Your crack might be parties or hoes or a 2 bedroom apartment instead of a condo.

All the money in the world but zero stability.

Then the bullshit. Affiliate marketing is dead. Guess who still makes millions every month over at imgrind. SEO is dead. Do you guys realize that the serps are still full of MFA sites? Theyre just not ranking solely on ALN anymore (yet mine are but im not allowed to be successful with aln because I happen to sell aln blasts). PPC is dead. For real? There are just no more unregulated Rebill windfall profits.

Get over fuckin rebills. They were a hiccup. Not the norm that is now dead. Were back to normal. Internet marketing is not dead, just like any other form of marketing. Customers dont click your ads? Sign up for CPM.

Diversify out of the fuckin english language. Foreign language seo is so much easier. You guys who went to school in america should have received education in Spanish. Thats a bigger market than english anyway. Ever thought about doing it? If your spanish is nowhere near good enough then why not? Guess that has to do with the cracknigger mentality.

SEO is dead because now you have to add value. Shit just got reel. lol? Adding value on the internet means posting a video of fart combustion on youtube. That shit gets millions of views. Just think of a way to get user engagement. Hint: be female, or find some other emotional customer base (can always hire females. your mom would probably do it for free).

Have you ever considered treating your IM shit like some business? I see idiots who cant pay their taxes because they somehow forgot about them or what? What else do you forget about? Cost of living? Or do you just not care? Lets try spending only .25 of every dollar you make. That leaves .5 for the tax man and .25 for reinvesting.

Use those .25 to expand your business. You do MFA and do well? Why not try building up one good site that "adds value".

Some of you guys have college degrees in math, yet when you post this magnificient failure crap, one would think youre middle school dropouts or borderline retarded. Probably both. How can you have zero business sense? You find some shit like MFA and retire on it. Youre fuckin early 20s.

In mid january, I had bought my first two aln blasts and they did well. I just had my first 6 MFA sites built up that I purchased from SAD. I was starting out. I saw value in ALN but didnt have the resources to get started, so I partnered up with someone who had sites with pr lying around. That first month we did well. The second month some retard entered the market and sold the same thing at half our price, so we had to cut. We reduced the quality of the service and ramped up the volume. We added 10 pr3 sites which cost us about 550. That sucked so we began researching a way to drive our pr site costs down. A month later we got them at 15 a piece.

A month later, some retard begins complaining about ALN, so we pretty much dont sell ALN blasts on wf anymore, but it didnt matter because we already had the transition built up. We are now selling individual posts on our own blogs, so were basically getting paid to build up legitimate sites. We are able to add 3-5 sites a week, most of which will bring in more than the cost within about two weeks. We now have the capital to screen for pr7 sites. We are approaching 5 figures a month.

On the side, we build up an ecommerce site for a pretty big term, which might take a while to gain traction. But we now have the ability to sit it out and weve got the resources to push it. We dont need to buy shitty posts from some retard because we have our own high pr blogs.

Weve got another thing started that I dont want to talk much about.


The problem you guys have is not that IM got harder or something. The problem is that you worked an exploit that you knew wouldnt last forever, but didnt do something to transition out of it in time.

Someone mentioned lukep and his MFA business model. Luke wont run into any of these problems because hes not that stupid.


Another thing. Most of you guys act like a job is a death trap, yet you lament on and on about how IM would be so much easier if you just had a tad bit of capital to get things going. Youd rather write content at an indians rate than get a job for a month, or even just half a month. Live the shitty life for a month. Whats the big fucking deal? Night shift at a factory pays 4k a month. Thats all the money you need to get your business started.


Your biggest fear is regular employment, but you do everything to end up right there. You might wanna quit that.
 
You need to constantly scale and improve. Make prettier more professional sites. Make sites with better content. Make sites with more direct user value. Make sites with more technical value which can't be easily replicated.

It comes down to user value and even a simple site which lists the available options can add value to someone who would otherwise have to browse through 5 corporate websites. Simple consumer advice IS a valuable resource regardless of what people think. Ugly made for Adsense sites are not. Some can pull it off, but most can't.

Nothing wrong with grinding 50 simple 'hack' EMD sites out when you're starting out, but you have to evolve.
 
Good for you man. Going to a 9-5 you actually love isn't a bad thing at all.

Capitalism works because we have employers AND employees. I think most people are forgetting this.
 
Also OP, what were your sources of income that dried up? Have you just been trying to milk Adwords or do paid traffic arbitrage solely? How diversified were you?

Just trying to understand exactly what happened in your situation.

I like to think I'm pretty well diversified between SEO / PPC / client business with each type of income stream generating 20%ish of income, that way if a few fall down I can scale what remains.
 
Yeah, that's cool but you need to know how to outsource, because every time you work 2 hours on your business I have worked 10. But correct, I would get a job if I was starting out as well. I just sell SEO on the side to pay the bills.

You're totally right. That's why I've put as much of my shit on auto-pilot as possible. Allows me to focus on features, functionality and content that adds value. Much less headaches as well.

Also, for what its worth, I like my full time job. I don't feel like I'm an 'on call bitch' or 'working for the man'. I have a lot of ownership over the projects I work on and how I choose to spend my time. If I get passed over a task that requires more 'button pushing' than I'd like, I simply streamline it, write up a SOP, and then pass it over to my friends in India. Finally, I feel like my full time job is contributing to society in a positive way so it's got that going for it as well.
 
Also OP, what were your sources of income that dried up? Have you just been trying to milk Adwords or do paid traffic arbitrage solely? How diversified were you?

Just trying to understand exactly what happened in your situation.

I like to think I'm pretty well diversified between SEO / PPC / client business with each type of income stream generating 20%ish of income, that way if a few fall down I can scale what remains.

I dont get these statements. Makes it sound like you only earn what you spend. Thats not even business. You pretty much have a job, you only lack a boss. And the stability a job offers.

The point of business is to build something that lasts. Something you could leave for half a year and it still making more than enough money for you to comfortably live on. If you want to spend something like 3k a month, aim for 30k. Make your expenses an afterthought.

On adding value. Even if you somehow were required to add value now, that just levels the playing field. Every business in the world has to add value, the only one that doesnt is the rebill shit, which was pretty much just a huge scam anyway. You guys fucked lots of poor people over. Ive got no problem with that but you could at least admit it. You dont take the legal blowback because youre protected by layers of anonymity. Be glad. When you ran flogs and farticles and fake review sites before that, advertisers couldnt pay their networks because the quality you sent was shit. People like Smaxor paid millions out of their own pockets because they felt obligated for the shit you caused.

Why not just make a site that visitors would love? Put that shit on facebook and let it gain traction. You dont need t spend months doing seo, just put something out that people actually want to spend time with. You dont need a programming degree or some huge budget for that. Think a bit smaller. How could you structure a blog in a way that would entertain?
 
You're totally right. That's why I've put as much of my shit on auto-pilot as possible. Allows me to focus on features, functionality and content that adds value. Much less headaches as well.

Also, for what its worth, I like my full time job. I don't feel like I'm an 'on call bitch' or 'working for the man'. I have a lot of ownership over the projects I work on and how I choose to spend my time. If I get passed over a task that requires more 'button pushing' than I'd like, I simply streamline it, write up a SOP, and then pass it over to my friends in India. Finally, I feel like my full time job is contributing to society in a positive way so it's got that going for it as well.
When you die and your kids get your assets are they also getting that cash flowing job of yours?

When you get bored with your job that you have ownership in can you sell it for three times your annual income?

How much of what you make considered "taxable income"?

That's what ownership means...
[not trying to be an asshole, just saying]
 
I dont get these statements. Makes it sound like you only earn what you spend. Thats not even business. You pretty much have a job, you only lack a boss. And the stability a job offers.

The point of business is to build something that lasts. Something you could leave for half a year and it still making more than enough money for you to comfortably live on. If you want to spend something like 3k a month, aim for 30k. Make your expenses an afterthought.

On adding value. Even if you somehow were required to add value now, that just levels the playing field. Every business in the world has to add value, the only one that doesnt is the rebill shit, which was pretty much just a huge scam anyway. You guys fucked lots of poor people over. Ive got no problem with that but you could at least admit it. You dont take the legal blowback because youre protected by layers of anonymity. Be glad. When you ran flogs and farticles and fake review sites before that, advertisers couldnt pay their networks because the quality you sent was shit. People like Smaxor paid millions out of their own pockets because they felt obligated for the shit you caused.


Why not just make a site that visitors would love? Put that shit on facebook and let it gain traction. You dont need t spend months doing seo, just put something out that people actually want to spend time with. You dont need a programming degree or some huge budget for that. Think a bit smaller. How could you structure a blog in a way that would entertain?

A lot of good points. Except for maybe one.
 
I knew 99% of the people on this forum gave up and went back to the real world when I posted a $4.99/year hosting offer and got one sign-up. Posted it on WHT and got 40+. There was a time when I could fill up a server in 48 hours by posting here.
No offense Eric, but the only email I get from Zensix is the one telling me that you are cutting yet another feature, or service or support or something.

Not judging, and I have always been happy with your service (Chris is great) but I've never received a sales email from you.
 
I might be the minority here but 9-5s are the it that bad. You grow, learn, get motivated and get paid.

Im talking about working for a successful corp, not some shit mom and pop a public co.

Ppl that hate on 9-5s either work at mcdonalds or got some dough from a b model that's not sustainable.

Rob kyosaki worked at xerox for 4 years u gunna hate?
Please stop posting. Please stop replying and posting new threads. I have never seen a good post from you. Ever. EVER EVER EVER.

No one has told you this because they either don't care, don't know or want to protect your feelings.

But for your sake and ours, please shut the fuck up.

Also, your avatar sucks.
 
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The bottom line is "hustle". Do whatever you need to do to get where you want to be. The problem arises when you either:
- give up
- delude yourself you are putting in enough work

I know guys that "think" they work on this while putting AT MOST 1-2 hours a day of real hard work.

I think most of people that failed and think they just can't get it to work anymore have a broken frame of reference because of those few easy campaigns that worked when they started out. You think you can just spit out campaigns and something will stick. Shit doesn't work like that anymore.

And rebills? Offers are still getting $2-$3 EPCs, rebills or not - the money is out there. Only issue is once everyone and their dog got into affiliate marketing things got more competitive. So now you have to put in actual hours to develop and optimize your campaigns.

As things got more competitive you need to start understanding things like statistical significance. This is the single most important thing that fucks up most people. Understand your numbers.

Campaigns usually work like this:
- Traffic source
- Demo targeting
- Ad
- LP
- Offer

Now, each of these steps can mess with your campaign so you need to have a repeatable and statistically significant method of finding out what is messing with your campaign. Your ad might get you your target CPCs but won't get you conversions that will yield needed conversion rates and the same principle translates to your LP. Once you stack everything up you'll notice the rule of "spend twice the offers payout" doesn't compute anymore - it's more like spend 10x the offer payout and you're still far from 90%+ confidence level you tested everything properly.

If you've ever ran multivariate split tests you know just how much data you really need to draw conclusions. Well campaigns are basically huge multivariate tests - just that people make decisions based on one or two actions.

One of my campaigns ran at $500 spend a day and for the first 2 days it made only $100/day so it was losing $400 a day. It would make sense to turn it off right? It lost $800 in 2 days. But on the third day it started getting $800-$1000 a day in revenue on the same spend. You gotta keep in mind these things when building campaigns and let it give you enough data to make an informed decision to start making adjustments.

Strategies have changed, platforms have tighter compliance requirements, and competition is a lot higher. You gotta act like it.

Focus, outwork everyone else, be creative and optimize.
 
Please stop posting. Please stop replying and posting new threads. I have never seen a good post from you. Ever. EVER EVER EVER.

No one has told you this because they either don't care, don't know or want to protect your feelings.

But for your sake and ours, please shut the fuck up.

Also, your avatar sucks.

There was at least one interesting thread, about how he wanted to be a car salesman but thought he'd make more with internets or something. If you're passionate about cars and good at sales, you should start in the 50-100k range, at a good shop then you move to finance and make $250k-ish, then manager and make $500k-ish, then you're partnering or getting your own franchise. If you still want to internet markets, you can still SEOs or PPCs or spams CLs or Facebooks or whatever, difference is you have a real product, valuable leads coming in, and you're making $1000+ a conversion.
 
My advice to those people who believe that their affiliate marketing / internet marketing / seo / whatever careers will last for your entire life is this: don't count on it.

For example, let's say you're 25 years old. Fast forward 10 years, you're now 35. Will it still be possible to make money by yourself with nothing more than an internet connection, a $10 hosting account, a strong work ethic, and a healthy supply of indians ready to work for $5/hr? What will you do at that point? I don't care if you're the smartest motherfucker in the room and ready to adapt...there's no telling what the future holds. You need to consider that you *might* have to get a job. No companies are going to give a shit that you used to make a boat load of cash without even having to put pants on or leave your house. They'll say cool story bro, and move on to somebody else.

8 years ago I setup my first adwords campaign. It took 15 minutes or so. For the next 6 months, I didn't touch the campaign and I did over $100k in revenue, 60k or so was profit. That is simply not possible today. It doesn't matter if you adapted along the way...the environment has changed considerably and will continue to do so.


I did what I had to do, and sooner or later you might find yourself facing similar situations. I'm just glad that my "easy monies" dried up in my mid 20's, and not in my mid 30's.

I've also done work by myself for clients. I much prefer my new environment, being surrounded by likeminded entrepreneurial people like myself. Even if it's technically a 9 - 5. A rev share also makes things a little sweeter.

How about building a REAL business? An adwords campaign is NOT a business.
 
8 years ago I setup my first adwords campaign. It took 15 minutes or so. For the next 6 months, I didn't touch the campaign and I did over $100k in revenue, 60k or so was profit. That is simply not possible today. It doesn't matter if you adapted along the way...the environment has changed considerably and will continue to do so.

I did what I had to do, and sooner or later you might find yourself facing similar situations. I'm just glad that my "easy monies" dried up in my mid 20's, and not in my mid 30's.
What you are talking about is very natural for young industries. A lot of us were around when affiliate marketing was very young, and there was more opportunity than there was people taking advantage of it. Because of that all you basically had to do was 'show up' and you'd be able to make money. Then as more people start showing up, barriers to entry go up and a lot of people who were making good money with a below average skillset/less working capital end up getting left out. It's been happening in affiliate marketing for a while just like it's happened in countless other industries.

Came to that realization a couple years ago; and was very lucky to have done so while sitting on a nice nest egg. More and more internet marketers will either need to step up their game significantly, move into other newer industries, or move into other industries with higher barriers to entry.

In my case I have moved towards building businesses that require a strong background in programming, and in some cases (such as the AI stuff I'm working on) the ability to work on very complex/abstract ideas. And while building these businesses I know that I am far safer than somebody doing affiliate marketing because the barrier to entry is so high that there are far fewer competitors and far fewer copycats who would be able to steal my hard work.

I know guys that "think" they work on this while putting AT MOST 1-2 hours a day of real hard work.
I've started using a time tracker to keep track of time I actually spend doing work (ie. I pause it whenever I go on WickedFire, Facebook, Reddit, Skype, or anything that isn't strictly causing me to do real work) and it's doing a great job helping me move from somebody who works 12 hours but only "works" 3-4 hours/day into somebody who spends 8+ hours/day doing real work.
 
The point of business is to build something that lasts. Something you could leave for half a year and it still making more than enough money for you to comfortably live on. If you want to spend something like 3k a month, aim for 30k. Make your expenses an afterthought.

What are you building that's going to last?

I agree with most of what you've said but at the end of the day this is a gay webmaster's forum, not a business forum, so 90% of the people here aren't making any money at all, 5% are arbitraging paid traffic and another 4% are brokering services and calling it a business.

Leaving 1% with presumably "long lasting" legitimate businesses that do whatever. I wouldn't say my model is a business necessarily and I definitely wouldn't call it perfect but if it keeps me with enough cash and from starting a thread like this I think I'm doing fine.

I guess I'm just curious what you're doing exactly that's so different and avoids the risk of putting all eggs into one basket?
 
I think the OP made the right choice to go back into the 9-5.

Everything is a hustle in life. Hustle doesn't mean doing everything on your own, your way, by your rules, and better then everyone else's hustle. Hustle is, what it is. If you have to hustle by someone else rules for a while until you get back on your own game, then that is what you do to get by.

One of the hardest things I think young people in our industry don't comprehend is, not everyone thinks like you, acts like you, is in the same situation as you, or even cares what you do/think anyways. I know plenty of early "ballers" on this forum that would have shat on the OP for going back to a 9-5 and called him all kinds of loser shit while they aren't able to keep up themselves in this game today and decided to move to some low end country so their $100k nest egg makes them a king while they eat noodles and street food all day.

You have to do, what you have to do. Hope everything works out the way you want it bro.

Maybe the OP has a family/dependents, a mortgage, or other situation that doesn't let them have options as freely as someone that is single with nothing at all that they are responsible for, which makes going to a 9-5 sometimes a more stable, solid source of income for some people.