Flash Mob at WalMart - Trashing the Place 300+
- Thread starter ThisWebThing
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You don't. Maybe if you watch the vid I just posted you'll start to get a sneaking suspicion how bad the problem is though and see a reason why the state makes these problems so bad.
Clearly I don't have time to go through every one of your sources and show you how a free market would override your fears in each case. Perhaps that's some homework you could be doing yourself. I'm certain you'll find all of those answers on mises.org.
Those who understand the beautiful phenomenon we call the free market defend it for the rest of their lives in the same way Ron Paul supporters defend him.
Like Bitcoin, it's beautiful once you do but yeah, there's a learning curve.
Do you believe in Evolution pewep? As in mankind is related to plants if you go back far enough?
Like Bitcoin, it's beautiful once you do but yeah, there's a learning curve.
Do you believe in Evolution pewep? As in mankind is related to plants if you go back far enough?
If you want to see how well your private security firms work out, go and watch Louis Theroux's documentary "Law and Disorder in Johannesburg".
"Louis Theroux travels to Johannesburg, where the residents find themselves increasingly besieged by crime. Despairing of the capability of the police and the courts to protect them, many have turned to an industry of private security, offering protection for a price. Are the sometimes brutal methods of these private police really a solution or just another part of the problem?"
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGOPVhQ5rhs]Louis Theroux - Law and Disorder in Johannesburg 1 of 6.avi - YouTube[/ame]
I'm actually on Mises right now but it's a mammoth task sorting through so much data. I'll probably do it for a couple of days and see what turns up.
Bitcoin is my life.
I don't have a need to believe in evolution any more than I have a need to believe in gravity. The evidence is all there. It would be statistically impossible for us to share so much genetic information with all life on earth without a common ancestor (LUCA).
I think this is fundamentally where we differ. I'd like to go back to the example of pink slime.
Two companies sell a burger, one is $5 and loaded with pink slime, another is $8 and contains 100% pure ground beef.
How is the consumer going to know which is the better product? package labels?
You're assuming that most people are intelligent enough to know these things themselves and decide with their feet, it's simply not true. The fact that 70% of all ground beef sold in the USA contains pink slime is testament enough.
Awesome. We'll make a reformed, ex-troll out of you yet.
Great. Finally some common ground. Assuming you can see the beauty in the bitcoin system itself, then this is the kind of circular protection that a truly free market would operate on if we could have one again some day.
Great again. More common ground here. Now think of natural selection... You know how a species ceases to exist when its' been out-competed in its' niche?
THAT'S the free market at work! The free market literally is evolution, or natural selection at least, extended up into our business lives.
Governments, from day 1, have been an artificial barrier to it. They removed the dangers of natural selection (the slower being eaten) at the cost of making the very few (elite alpha males) more powerful than anyone ever could imagine.
Another great example of free markets in nature is when a species like the Shark dominates the ocean... Sharks quite literally have a monopoly for swimming things in the ocean, yet I don't hear any socialists claiming that sharks are ruining the world for all other fish imposing their tyranny on everything below the waves...
Sure, a shark can hold onto its' monopoly for eons, but that's not so bad, is it? He doesn't need to kill every other thing that swims, in fact he'd like them to keep on swimming, for whatever reasons.
Walmart can hold on to its' monopoly for eons too as far as consumers should be concerned, just as long as they keep up the stellar job and deserve to be there. If they stop earning their spot as top fish in the general store niche, then they leave themselves open to being eaten by some other general store, perhaps Amazon.com one day.
In a free market, there would be no big, artificial stick for them to threaten the challengers with. Just their own (massive) success. That does make it hard for the challenger but so what? Either way competition ensues and the consumers get the best product.
...Just the way a sea bass doesn't give a shit if his top predator is a shark or a giant squid... He's got a chance to escape it either way.
A private, 3rd-party service would obviously pop up and offer independent testing of foods. Think 'consumer reports' meets the (non-corrupted) FDA.
Without the school system dumbing us all down and forcing options onto us (like romney v/s obomba for instance) that we normally wouldn't choose, we'd clearly be smarter and have easier choices to make too.
Plus, without the corrupted government agencies like the FDA in the way, a whole, huge industry of private, independent testing will flourish in every niche imaginable. Each auto testing service will have competition against the other auto testing services and you would just pick the one you like the most.
Haha, we'll see.
Well, I got into bitcoins because of its technological aspect initially. I mean you probably remember back when you could just get a couple of graphics cards, overclock the fuck out of your setup and crank out $X,XXX per month. Ah those were the days. By the way do you know what's up with the sudden price increase lately? I'm thinking the instability of the euro is causing a lot of businesses to start using it.
Alright, look - this is how I see it (and this is very hypothetical). In an ideal environment, having an unregulated free market would allow for numerous products to be made at a lower cost to the consumer. However, what about commodities where the supply is much less than the demand? For example in housing (let's take a theoretically unregulated NY). Clearly only those able to pay for such valuable real estate would be able to live there. What about the millions of people who are able to stay there right now because of the price ceilings in rental markets? Where would they go? Would they become homeless? These people, although they don't make a decent enough wage to be able to competitively rent a place, are CRITICAL to a city like NY. They are the public system operators, the teachers, etc... Speaking of public system operators, who would be able to afford the trillion dollar complex transit systems? Conglomerates? Would you willingly give so much power (the power to determine who can go where for how much) to a few individuals? That feels like suicide. At least government is disorganized enough in its bloated bureaucracy that any controlling measures it takes are not as effective as they could be.
That's just one problem that I have. Nevermind the fact that consumers would give so much power to monopolies that the individuals at the top would be able to do whatever they want, whenever they wanted. Just look at 3rd world countries if you don't believe me.
My god, please don't tell me you actually believe that. You anarchy guys really need to step away from the computer / books for a bit, and look out into the real world. That's not how it would work out... AT ALL.
It's likely just that plus my awesome 5K post. :thumbsup:
Their price adjusts accordingly to reflect the true needs of the market?
This is a totally different argument about that theoretical society, and like any socio-economic one, it's almost a discussion in philosophy.
The great unknown variable here that would make the most difference is in how the walls came down. If we had a bloody revolution and somehow everyone agreed to start up a volunatary society the next day, somehow, then the distinction between classes would be somewhat erased on that day. Assets like Gold or something tangible would certainly make a difference in your new class, but the biggest consideration would seemingly be entrepreneurship.
Those who offer a service or product to their neighbors quickly and efficiently are going to thrive. Those who sit there waiting on their next welfare check are going to starve to death.
...And yes, I'm ok with that part. Natural selection bro. It's NATURAL.
Some people won't be kosher with their lazy relatives starving and they're welcome to take care of them. Charities of course aren't going anywhere too. So it's not going to cause a massive die-off, just a small one of the very worst of society.
As for the servant class in a crowded neighborhood like manhattan, They'd just need to restructure their business. Instead of being a government-employed lightbulb changer, they can offer busineses there the service of changing lightbulbs there instead... They've already got the skills, and businesses will likely still need light.
Culture would rapidly respond with the word 'entrepreneurship' on everybody's lips. Those who don't have an entrepreneurial bone in their body can still work for big companies too. And both the entrepreneurial lightbulb changer and the lowly hotel laundry washer will both need to commute a little further out to be able to afford the rent.
Then again, with more entrepreneurs, the concentration of bizzes won't remain so high in big cities. Townships of 500 today will have 100-250 entrepreneurs pop up and start bizzes overnight so they'll keep the jobs spread across the whole continent more evenly.
Yes I do. Sounds like someone here could use MORE time at the computer / books.
The "real" world is one of the most manipulated, artificial things I can imagine. I'd so love to see some REAL world in my lifetime, and that's why I do this.
Ok, very quickly... corporate espionage happens now, when there's massive repercussions for getting caught. What do you think would happen if government was removed, and there were no repercussions whatsoever?
Molding of the subconscious minds happens now from corporations, with all the checks, balances, and regulations that are in place. What do you think would happen if those checks and balances were removed? Everyone is just going to get up, and decide to play fair and nice?
Do you really believe you as private citizens will just form your own neat & polite police forces to provide protection? No... more than likely, a well armed & trained militia will show up at your front door, and provide you with protection whether you want it or not (you won't). Only way out is to organize your own militia that can send them packing.
And I'm outta the thread. If there's one thing I've learnt about WF, it's don't bother arguing against anarchy, because apparently it's the best way to go.
He ignored the documentary I posted about about Johannesburg and their reliance on private security, one of the groups was hilariously named 'Bad Boyz'. It's a great piece of evidence of that aspect of anarchy actually being used in reality, and it shows it clearly not working.
- The members of these security firms have no boundaries. They beat and torture people, many of the members are ex-criminals.
- Of course only the rich can afford the protection
- The private security firms are even employed by criminal gangs and drug dealers.
That's the REALITY of your pie in the sky ideals lukep, and it's completely ridiculous and ineffective.
"Anarchy" is the way the universe has chosen to organize itself.
There are natural laws and principles at work within the general maelstrom, and these simple concepts provide an underlying order to everything that happens in the known universe.
For human beings to think for an instant that they are able to improve upon or change a system of organization that has been functioning perfectly for billions of years is the greatest manifestation of myopic hubris I can conceive of.
The universe is a perfect system, and it doesn't care, it will persist beyond our pathetic attempts to defy it's order.
I'm of the opinion that if we made more of an effort to respect the natural laws that govern everything that exists in the universe, we would be better off individually, and as a whole, because we would not be creating new and artificial problems.
The idea of a "free market" is as old as the stars, and any attempts to change or deny this masterful system of organization are ultimately doomed.
Let your ego tell you differently if you want, the universe does not care.