The Libertarian Party Is A Mistake

hellblazer

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Randy Barnett: The Mistake That Is the Libertarian Party

Voting the LP line could swing the election to the Democrats. That's not an outcome libertarians should hope for.
By RANDY E. BARNETT

In 1972, the Libertarian Party nominated University of Southern California philosophy Prof. John Hospers as its first presidential candidate and ran Tonie Nathan for vice president. When Roger MacBride, a Virginia Republican elector pledged to Richard Nixon, voted instead for Hospers-Nathan, he cast the first electoral vote in American history for a woman. The Libertarian Party was off and running. In 1976, it nominated the renegade elector as its presidential candidate.

As a young libertarian, I was very enthusiastic about the formation of the Libertarian Party. I proudly cast my vote for Roger MacBride for president. I attended the 1975 national convention in New York that nominated him. But, while I am as libertarian today as I was then, I have come to believe that the Libertarian Party was a mistake.

The reason is simple. Unlike a parliamentary system in which governments are formed by coalitions of large and small parties, our electoral system is a first-past-the-post, winner-take-all one in which a winning presidential candidate just needs to get more than 50% of the vote. This means each contending "major" party is itself a coalition that needs to assemble enough diverse voting groups within it to get to 51%. Hence the need to appeal to the so-called moderates and independents rather than the more "extreme" elements within.

To the extent that a third party is successful, it will drain votes from the coalition party to which it is closest and help elect the coalition party that is further removed from its interests. The Libertarian Party's effort will, if effective, attract more libertarian voters away from the candidate who is marginally less hostile to liberty, and help hand the election to the candidate who is more hostile to liberty.

Fortunately, because this drawback is so obvious, the Libertarian Party's presidential vote has remained minuscule. (It was about 0.4% in 2008, though it could cost Mitt Romney the electoral votes of New Hampshire this time around). Most libertarian voters resist the party's call, even when, as this year, it has nominated a good man like Gary Johnson, the former governor of New Mexico.

Some have defended the LP by saying it is an expressive outlet for political libertarians, as distinct from more intellectual or policy types. Here too the LP has been counterproductive. By drawing libertarian politicos from both major parties, the LP makes these parties less libertarian at the margin than they would otherwise be. In each major-party coalition, the libertarian element is weaker precisely to the extent that libertarian politicos are expending their energies on behalf of the LP.

Libertarian activists should choose whichever party they feel more comfortable working within. That's what Ron Paul did. Likewise, Rand Paul has brought his libertarianism inside the GOP tent. The small-"l" libertarians in the tea party movement identified the Republican Party as the coalition closest to their concerns about fiscal responsibility and the growth of government power, and they have gone about making the GOP more libertarian from the grass-roots up. They have moved the party in a libertarian direction, as has the Republican Liberty Caucus.

Despite all this, some libertarians continue to insist that, because the Republican and Democrats are equally bad for liberty, it makes no difference who gets elected. However true this once was, in recent years Republicans have been better for liberty and Democrats have been worse.

It was a Democratic Congress and president who gave us the federal takeover of the health-care industry that will bring us closer to a Western European-style social democracy. All four Democratic-appointed Supreme Court justices voted to uphold ObamaCare as constitutional, with four Republican-appointed dissenters.

Are Democrats better than Republicans on personal liberty? Neither has been great on that score, but Democrats have been the bigger disappointment. When I took the medical-marijuana case to the Supreme Court in 2004, I got zero votes from the left side of the court while garnering the votes of Chief Justice William Rehnquist and Justices Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O'Connor. And President Obama's Justice Department has reneged on his campaign promise to refrain from going after medical-marijuana dispensaries.

Neither party wants to question the futile and destructive "war on drugs." But Republicans have been much better on free speech in recent years. With respect to economic liberty, the Environmental Protection Agency has restricted land use throughout the nation and would do more if not stopped. Dodd-Frank has amped up restrictions on financial services.

Read more...
 


Yet he's willfully ignoring all of the breeches of what little liberties we have left being slowly removed without media coverage by both Republicans and Democrats over the last 4 years alone.

And, even if Republicans were saints the last 4 years, look at what they did to our liberties while they had power the first couple years of Bush, and the following 6 years.

I voted Libertarian where I could today.
 
Yes, lets keep perpetuating this wonderful, non-corrupt two party system we have.
 
Hellblazer, you're really missing the point. Most Libertarians have as much respect for Romney as they do for Obama. In fact, many Libertarians would rather see Obama win - not because they like him, but because it would allow them to make more inroads into the Republican Party over the next 4 years. If Romney wins, that pretty much stops any attempts of the Libertarians from taking over and solidifies the two-party fraud that we are stuck with.
 
Strong lack of understanding of the American political system in this thread FTW.

n fact, many Libertarians would rather see Obama win - not because they like him, but because it would allow them to make more inroads into the Republican Party over the next 4 years.

Some of the dumbest logic, and sadly true for a lot of libertarians.

Yes, let's enable a political party that is essentially the direct opposite of actual libertarian policy in an attempt to "take over" the political party system... Good luck with that.

It's sad to say that as someone who identifies mostly with libertarian ideals, I probably despise modern libertarians more than the libs... and call them for what they are: hipsters.
 
I voted for Gary Johnson a couple hours ago. :thumbsup:

I only bothered to vote because of the ballot initiatives and Libertarian sheriff & board trustees, but I was happy to "waste" my vote on Gary Johnson too. Unfortunately, I had to write his name in since Michigan has something called a "sore loser" law that says if you lose in a primary for one party, you can not be on the ballot for another party.

Some of the dumbest logic, and sadly true for a lot of libertarians.

Yes, let's enable a political party that is essentially the direct opposite of actual libertarian policy in an attempt to "take over" the political party system... Good luck with that.

The Tea Party people may not have been able to take over the Party a few years ago, but they are definitely an influential enough block to have influenced the Republican Party significantly. Why shouldn't the Libertarians attempt to do the same, since they have greater numbers?

Nothing short of a revolution can change the fact that this is a two party system from the ground up. Ron Paul was not a perfect candidate, but his ideas (the real reason he ran) would not have gained the same audience had he run as a Libertarian.

Besides, not all people that identify as Republicans are warhawks and anti-drug crusaders, many of them just believe in smaller government. Their minds will be much easier to change than liberals who think government should control everything we do. They had to pick one of the two parties though and neither was a perfect choice.
 
Participation in politics is the problem, until people see that, nothing will change.

From someone who has always lived in a political plurality, having 3 parties or more doesn't change the nature or general direction of government.
 
Participation in politics is the problem, until people see that, nothing will change.

From someone who has always lived in a political plurality, having 3 parties or more doesn't change the nature or general direction of government.

Ignorant participation, or participation in general?
 
The LP lost a lot of its best activists this year to go work the primary for Ron Paul, so it's more fucked over there than usual. Some will stay with the GOP because they got elected onto committee seats in their state parties. Others went back a few months ago to find the Gary campaign in a lot of debt.

Now they are aggressively promoting Gary to the rest of the Ron Paul people in an attempt to get 5% of the vote nationwide; they say it's for 2016, but I don't think they give a fuck about 2016. They would stand to get about $10 mil retroactively, so they can clear Gary's debt for this year's campaign.
 
a political party that is essentially the direct opposite of actual libertarian policy


House of Representatives vote :


Iraq War Authorization, 2002

R = 215 YES, 6 NO
D = 82 YES, 126 NO


Patriot Act Renewal, 2011

R = 195 YES, 31 NO
D = 54 YES, 122 NO


NDAA, 2012

R = 190 YES, 43 NO
D = 93 YES, 93 NO
 
CantHelpMyselfHaveToPostInAHellblazerThread

Dammit, couldn't resist. JUST ONE post in honor of the election results, and hellblazer's nose-rubbing...

Anyone remember this little gem?

http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-shit/163204-romney-will-win-romney-52-9-obama-47-1-a-2.html#post1850578

Hellblazer said:
The person who wrote this is seriously delusional. It might even be approaching a mental disorder.

Hellblazer called me delusional there for predicting pretty much this exact outcome. (I said 65% obomba, currently CNN says it's 60% obomba... Still quite a landslide.)

Many other libertarians and anarchists here also predicted obomba's strong win... Yet Hellboy still insists, even after the results are in, that the mindset bringing about those predictions is flawed.

It's beyond comical. I honestly don't know how hellboy can show his face here anymore after that...

Not that I think of myself a libertarian anymore per se, but I'm posting this to defend is the overall bigger picture that we have just a 1-party system, so tonight's outcome was inevitable. TPTB would of course be impressed with Obomba's ability to strip us of our freedoms faster than any other potuses. He's a keeper!

The following short vid says volumes about how we got into our current situation, and hellblazer and all the other partisan fools need to watch it to understand how silly their respect for parties is:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXlMFWmotSU]The Little Government that Could - YouTube[/ame]

Of course I no longer advocate simply returning to the baby constitution, I don't want a government at all but this vid shows what every libertarian knows will happen to every government given time.


Now, since this is my real last post before I head out, I just have to pass along what the Sovereign man said today. It's some scary shit! It sums up well the biggest reason for my move to thailand, in fact.

Simon Black said:
The entire world seems fixated on this belief that it actually matters who becomes the President of the United States anymore... or that one of these two guys is going to 'fix' things.

Fact is, it doesn't matter. Not one bit. And I'll show you mathematically:

1) When the US federal government spends money, expenses are officially categorized in three different ways.

Discretionary spending includes nearly everything we think of related to government-- the US military, Air Force One, the Department of Homeland Security, TSA agents who sexually assault passengers, etc.

Mandatory spending includes entitlements like Medicare, Social Security, VA benefits, etc. which are REQUIRED by law to be paid.

The final category is interest on the debt. It is non-negotiable.

Mandatory spending and debt interest go out the door automatically. It's like having your mortgage payment auto-drafted from your bank account-- Congress doesn't even see the money, it's automatically deducted.

2) With the rise of baby boomer entitlements and steady increase in overall debt levels, mandatory spending and interest payments have exploded in recent years. In fact, the Congressional Budget Office predicted in 2010 that the US government's TOTAL revenue would be exceeded by mandatory spending and interest expense within 15-years.

That's a scary thought. Except it happened the very next year.

3) In Fiscal Year 2011, the federal government collected $2.303 trillion in tax revenue. Interest on the debt that year totaled $454.4 billion, and mandatory spending totaled $2,025 billion. In sum, mandatory spending plus debt interest totaled $2.479 trillion... exceeding total revenue by $176.4 billion.

For Fiscal Year 2012 which just ended 37 days ago, that shortfall increased 43% to $251.8 billion.

In other words, they could cut the entirety of the Federal Government's discretionary budget-- no more military, SEC, FBI, EPA, TSA, DHS, IRS, etc.-- and they would still be in the hole by a quarter of a trillion dollars.

4) Raising taxes won't help. Since the end of World War II, tax receipts in the US have averaged 17.7% of GDP in a very tight range. The low has been 14.4% of GDP, and the high has been 20.6% of GDP.

During that period, however, tax rates have been all over the board. Individual rates have ranged from 10% to 91%. Corporate rates from 15% to 53%. Gift taxes, estate taxes, etc. have all varied. And yet, total tax revenue has stayed nearly constant at 17.7% of GDP.

It doesn't matter how much they increase tax rates-- they won't collect any more money.

5) GDP growth prospects are tepid at best. Facing so many headwinds like quickening inflation, an enormous debt load, and debilitating regulatory burdens, the US economy is barely keeping pace with population growth.

6) The only thing registering any meaningful growth in the US is the national debt. It took over 200 years for the US government to accumulate its first trillion dollars in debt. It took just 286 days to accumulate the most recent trillion (from $15 trillion to $16 trillion).

Last month alone, the first full month of Fiscal Year 2013, the US government accumulated nearly $200 billion in new debt-- 20% of the way to a fresh trillion in just 31 days.

7) Not to mention, the numbers will only continue to get worse. 10,000 people each day begin receiving mandatory entitlements. Fewer people remain behind to pay into the system. The debt keeps rising, and interest payments will continue rising.

8) Curiously, a series of polls taken by ABC News/Washington Post and NBC News/Wall Street Journal show that while 80% of Americans are concerned about the debt, roughly the same amount (78%) oppose cutbacks to mandatory entitlements like Medicare.

9) Bottom line, the US government is legally bound to spend more money on mandatory entitlements and interest than it can raise in tax revenue. It won't make a difference how high they raise taxes, or even if they cut everything else that remains in government as we know it.

This is not a political problem, it's a mathematical one. Facts are facts, no matter how uncomfortable they may be. Today's election is merely a choice of who is going to captain the sinking Titanic.

tl;dr: It's a mathematical impossibility for the USA to stay afloat much longer. We very likely just elected our last president. (Not because of politics, but because of economics.)


So enjoy your final few years, America. I don't think the dollar will be worth a penny by the time the next president takes office, if we get another one at all. Rmoney certainly wouldn't have slowed down this process very much so all I can say to you silly partisans is:

LOL Voters, voters LOL.