Scientifically, if you find that there is no evidence to support either side then you should arrive at the conclusion that it is unknown. It isn’t logical to arrive at the conclusion that God certainly doesn’t exist simply because there is an absence of scientific evidence that he does exist.
Conspiracy Theories and Athiesm
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Scientifically, if you find that there is no evidence to support either side then you should arrive at the conclusion that it is unknown. It isn’t logical to arrive at the conclusion that God certainly doesn’t exist simply because there is an absence of scientific evidence that he does exist.
a-the-ist
1. A person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
2. A godless person.
that makes me an atheist. all the hallucinogens in the world could not make me believe in a god.
There is no evidence that a teapot is floating in orbit round Mars, there is also no evidence that one isn't. Does this make it equaly likely for there to be one as for there not to be one? The same could be said for an almost infinite number of things. You can't just go assuming that things are true just because there is no evidence to say that they aren't true. You have to prove that things do exist, not that they don't.
As EMP said, 'Anything that is taken as fact without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.'
Ever since the death of my parents, I have become more interested in the study of life after death experiences, and find it impossible to dismiss completely the notion that we do have a presence that continues after we die. A woman who lives in the neighborhood had a heart attack about 20 years ago, and told me of her "journey" that lasted while she was clinically dead. Irene is a person who is religiously indifferent, not prone to telling wild stories and I absolutely believed her.
One very consistent theme in these experiences is the notion that we're here to complete a task: that could be to look after someone, teaching things, sell Colon Cleanse, whatever. And the dead people recounting their journies were told they have to go back and finish the task and it's not their time. I don't know if this proves the existence of god, but it gives some hope to the idea that our time here has a purpose and we'll be with out loved ones again when we die.
That being said, I cringe at religious dogma, and those who lap it up at the trough of the altar. Religion is entirely manmade, but what I mentioned above is a genuine mystery.
As for those who claim the afterlife stories are the result of natural opiates flooding the brain as it dies, there is no natural selection advantage to this happening.
One very consistent theme in these experiences is the notion that we're here to complete a task: that could be to look after someone, teaching things, sell Colon Cleanse, whatever. And the dead people recounting their journies were told they have to go back and finish the task and it's not their time. I don't know if this proves the existence of god, but it gives some hope to the idea that our time here has a purpose and we'll be with out loved ones again when we die.
That being said, I cringe at religious dogma, and those who lap it up at the trough of the altar. Religion is entirely manmade, but what I mentioned above is a genuine mystery.
As for those who claim the afterlife stories are the result of natural opiates flooding the brain as it dies, there is no natural selection advantage to this happening.
"God looks inside the Man" - That's pretty vague. Looks at what? Ones character? Values? Honesty? Worth? Faith?
You're saying there's a reason for a baby that never understood its surrounding, never had a chance, never contemplated its existence - to die? Theology holds these answers for you? You don't believe that death, age and sickness are by-products of evolution? It's not "another topic", it's all part of the same system that got us here.
Seriously, sit there and go through whatever contemplative mode you go through to get to the truth, type it out and explain to me what's your reason for a baby to die, what's your definition of god and what EXACTLY does it mean that "God looks inside Man".
I'm not pro or anti anything, I'm just saying how ridiculous it is that some people still argue intelligent design today. I state everything as I see it, indifferent to anything but facts, probability and evidence.
So apparently you're all brain damaged. Epiphenom: Spirituality linked to brain damage
Edit: I really wanted to say something like, "I knew your retard" but I refrained.
Edit: I really wanted to say something like, "I knew your retard" but I refrained.
Please.
As usual you miss the point. If there is no creator, all that exists: life, matter, EVERYTHING "just happened." THAT is chance, plain and simple. Inanimate matter came to life---by chance (you take that on faith). Mutations from there made organisms more and more complex---by chance. The universe is absolutely stunning in how finely tuned it is (see my previous 35 point [reproduced] post on just how finely tuned the universe is)---all by chance according to you and all naturalists. THAT is the ONLY alternative to creation by a supreme being---Almighty chance. Your faith rivals that of ANY Christian. I submit that your blind faith in chance is preposterous when compared to mine in a creator.
ps. the replies I have read here include NO refutations of information theory. Zero refutations of how farfetched it is to believe the fine tuning of the universe just happened. Just a bunch of moronic posts about how foolish Christians are. You pass off sophmoric gibberish for rigorous counterpoint. Just sad. At least I KNOW why I believe as I do--spent 6 full time years studying it. I'll bet very few if any actually read the full text on information theory in the link I provided, or the 35 points of the finely tuned universe. What are you afraid of? Instead though, you are content to only read and listen to those you agree with and assume that the non-believing 60% must be right. Without doubt the most important decision you will ever make-- if the Bible is true-- yet most of you have spent more time planning vacations than validating your world view. Most of you have never bothered to do the research (proven by the lame lack of science or knowledgable reasoning in your replies) for yourself to see if your belief system makes stands up.
That's too bad, it really is.
I hope at least one of you out there will find truth. Blessings.
As usual you miss the point. If there is no creator, all that exists: life, matter, EVERYTHING "just happened." THAT is chance, plain and simple. Inanimate matter came to life---by chance (you take that on faith). Mutations from there made organisms more and more complex---by chance. The universe is absolutely stunning in how finely tuned it is (see my previous 35 point [reproduced] post on just how finely tuned the universe is)---all by chance according to you and all naturalists. THAT is the ONLY alternative to creation by a supreme being---Almighty chance. Your faith rivals that of ANY Christian. I submit that your blind faith in chance is preposterous when compared to mine in a creator.
ps. the replies I have read here include NO refutations of information theory. Zero refutations of how farfetched it is to believe the fine tuning of the universe just happened. Just a bunch of moronic posts about how foolish Christians are. You pass off sophmoric gibberish for rigorous counterpoint. Just sad. At least I KNOW why I believe as I do--spent 6 full time years studying it. I'll bet very few if any actually read the full text on information theory in the link I provided, or the 35 points of the finely tuned universe. What are you afraid of? Instead though, you are content to only read and listen to those you agree with and assume that the non-believing 60% must be right. Without doubt the most important decision you will ever make-- if the Bible is true-- yet most of you have spent more time planning vacations than validating your world view. Most of you have never bothered to do the research (proven by the lame lack of science or knowledgable reasoning in your replies) for yourself to see if your belief system makes stands up.
That's too bad, it really is.
I hope at least one of you out there will find truth. Blessings.
Where's god here?
Is this gods idea of a joke?
Even Vishnu is a bit of a joker himself,
rest is here.. www.oshkoshfreethinkers.org - Intelligent Design
Basically an expansion of what I was saying on how fucked we are. Special intelligently designed creations my ass. How bout all the religious keyboard warriors on wickedfire gets out of their house and try to convince those kids that there's a god that intelligently designed them.
That's the work of the Devil.
Have you ever heard of colliding branes and multiverse theory?
Life didn't happen by "chance", and science NEVER claimed it did. If you think that, that's your problem, not ours. It's a naturally occuring phenomenon that will occur given the right circumstances. There's independent life systems on this planet miles down that prove it.
All you're doing here is spouting off self serving bullshit arguments like science leaves things to chance. Get real and study the opposition if you want to be taken seriously.
Our faith outweighs that of any Christian? You're missing a big point, we don't have faith - we look at the information provided and form a valid hypotheses based on what's available. An ever changing hypotheses that may or may not reach the truth. Science will always be more valid, informed and rational than anything you're saying now. To believe in a creator is basically saying that the boundaries of your imagination don't extend past a needlepoint.
Mutations didn't happen by chance, what is it with you and this word - you say "chance" like it's some sort of all defending, all purpose answer to refuting valid scientific theories that far outweigh any bullshit theology could push.
Errors in DNA regeneration, radiation from space and viruses all mutate DNA - do those sound like chance? Do you understand the time spans involved? Do you understand competition and natural selection? Obviously you don't because you wouldn't be saying these things in the first place.
Where exactly did you waste 6 years studying? Some Christian school? I'll give you something, you're one of the few that I saw argue his views with science, but your opinions are too biased and too closed minded to hold any value. I've been reading science my whole life as a pass time and I assure you - I could explain everything you said in every one of your posts with a valid scientific theory.
I would never waste my time doing that - your 6 years of study have a deep emotional impact on you, you want to think your right, way way way too much. I on the other hand(representing Science) have no need to believe anything, is not biased to any view, and holds theories that are on the boundaries of what we know. That's what science is about, the constant analysis and scrutiny of our knowledge to its extent. Theology on the other hand is the equivalent of dried dog shit left in the sun and Science will always be there as the maggots to finish the job until there's none left.
Come back when you have a shred of a clue on what Science believes, attack it properly and I will bother myself to inform you.
I bet you know some of the characteristics of this Creator too, don't you.
That's what this is about. You've got ideas of the exact nature of this creator you imagined or someone imagined for you, and that this creator has a divine plan for us Humans. But you have no proof of any of that, in any way at all. All you have is your ego.
The ego wants us to have a special purpose in this reality. It doesn't want us to die just to die, it wants us to live an eternity of bliss.
You can only speculate the supernatural, because by definition, the supernatural cannot be explained.
No one is saying it 'just happened', we're just saying that there is no evidence to say that it was created and therefore no reason to believe in a creator. There could be any number of explanations that we simply don't understand. By your logic, if there is a creator, then unless he was created he too must have come about by 'random chance'.
In my opinion there is obviously things happening in the Universe far above our comprehension, but just saying 'GOD DONE IT!!1!1' doesn't solve anything, that is a very primitive way of looking at things.
Nobody is saying that either, Science has just yet to explain it.
You really need to read up on evolution.
It is finely tuned, if it wasn't what we see today probably wouldn't exist and we wouldn't even be here to comprehend that. What's your point?
Faith (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof
Nobody firmly believes that in all happened by chance, not to my knowledge anyway.
What is refuting information theory got to with anything though? It seems to me that it's a completely seperate issue to whether God exists or not.
I'm not going to, but I absolutely guarantee you that if I read both of those documents I still wouldn't come to the conclusion that God exists, because it isn't evidence. All it supports is that the Universe is intricate, complex, and 'finely tuned'. Wow, I already knew that.
You're still not understanding are you? We're not saying we must be right, you could be all right for all I know. What we're saying is there is no evidence to support God, so it's simply illogical to believe in him.
Why so sour? You say atheists in this thread are just calling people stupid and here you are making completely unreasonable claims about people you don't even know.
You say we lack reasoning but yet you are the one who believes something without evidence, please explain.
I'd also like to see you comment on what HarveyJ said, and then get back to proving this unbeatable argument of yours.
It was on an episode of The Universe sorry I can't remember which one. I just thought it was interesting.
HarveyJ
He is - THE CACTUS!
Life’s First Spark Re-Created in the Laboratory | Wired Science | Wired.com
Organism Sets Mutation Speed Record, May Explain Life’s Origins | Wired Science | Wired.com
I think these say enough.
We'll find out who here really bothers to read anything that's contrary to their beliefs, or if they just read titles.
Cliff Notes: Organic compounds DO spontaneously get together and form life, and begin to mutate in order to thrive better, and can do so more rapidly the less complex the organism is.
Evolution: It's just split testing.
Organism Sets Mutation Speed Record, May Explain Life’s Origins | Wired Science | Wired.com
I think these say enough.
We'll find out who here really bothers to read anything that's contrary to their beliefs, or if they just read titles.
Cliff Notes: Organic compounds DO spontaneously get together and form life, and begin to mutate in order to thrive better, and can do so more rapidly the less complex the organism is.
Evolution: It's just split testing.
Some people are Christians who are just quiet about their faith, or they're not terribly interested in convincing people who won't be convinced anyways. Perhaps they can't understand everything or explain every kink, but they just believe because it feels right.
It might not be good enough for some people, and would probably be mocked and belittled by the hardcore atheists/whatever's, but they don't really care as they're not out to prove anything.
Christians can't really explain everything. Atheists can't really explain everything. Ultimately, nobody can explain what this entire world means or what the meaning of our existence is. We have theories, yes, but nothing solid or concrete in its totality. Threads like these seem to just become people belittling each other because they sneeringly deride each others belief systems. Who cares? I could give a fuck what you believe. I believe the Bible because it makes sense to me, and if I'm not shooting people in the street because of it, why should you care? Conversely, if you're perfectly content in believing we live in a meaningless existence where everything happens by chance, why would I waste my time trying to change your mind?
It might not be good enough for some people, and would probably be mocked and belittled by the hardcore atheists/whatever's, but they don't really care as they're not out to prove anything.
Christians can't really explain everything. Atheists can't really explain everything. Ultimately, nobody can explain what this entire world means or what the meaning of our existence is. We have theories, yes, but nothing solid or concrete in its totality. Threads like these seem to just become people belittling each other because they sneeringly deride each others belief systems. Who cares? I could give a fuck what you believe. I believe the Bible because it makes sense to me, and if I'm not shooting people in the street because of it, why should you care? Conversely, if you're perfectly content in believing we live in a meaningless existence where everything happens by chance, why would I waste my time trying to change your mind?
Actually, we have a lot of evidence that science might be on the right path.
The theory of evolution, for one, has been gathering so much evidence that it is now called a "theory" instead of a "hypothesis". For the correct scientific use of the word theory, please refer to your local googles.
On the other hand, there has been 0, zero, zilch, nada, null evidence for the existence of God.
Being very, very scientific, I therefore dismiss the idea.
However, if anyone would come up with evidence, I would HAVE TO look at it and accept God as my saviour and the supreme being he is supposed to be.
naaah... not gonna happen.
::emp::
Well that's a nice way of saying you give up. The Christians were pretty vocal about their beliefs and what they thought Science believed(wrongly). I came on to defend science and to clear things for the passive reader who's interested in the subject. Looks like there was more Science on page 5 than the Christians could chew.
Not surprisingly, not one of my points has been attacked, the truth always wins, having faith is the equivalent of worrying about something you don't control, it will never accomplish anything except waste your time(in some cases 6 years, like Theorist mentioned).
Giving up what? I don't know what you believe, nor do I care. What I do notice is that threads like these inevitable degenerate into sneeringly insulting exchanges and ad hominen attacks. And irregardless of that, I'm not particularly interested in getting your seal of approval for whatever I believe. I don't need to hear your psychobabble about how I believe the Bible because I need to believe in a God, or whatever other drivel you guys say. Nobody has definitively proven that there isn't a God. The Bible leaves a lot of details regarding creation open to interpretation. Evolution is biblically compatible. I believe the Bible because it makes sense to me, and if somebody else is blowing their load ready to evangelize everyone to atheism, why would I be interested in that, much less subject myself to their fervor simply to 'save' them?
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