So what do you guys think of this Ted Haggard thing?

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Andrew

Andrew

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Forget the gay hooker, I think the real story here is he's a meth head. :rasta:

For all you non-US or non-news guys, he was the head of the National Association of Evangelicals, one of the biggest fundamentalist christian churches in the US. This guy he had been paying for sex and drugs for the last 3 years got pissed off that he was against gay marriage.
 


The Pinnacle of Religious hippocrisy, it's not that uncommon, as we all know.

Absent his "doo gooder" facade, he's just another gay drug addict.
 
As a Christian myself, it ticks me off to no end because it is yet more ammo for the anti-religion/christian folks out there to point their finger and say "see, look at THAT! Don't preach to me hypocrites!" Guys like this are a sham.

I will say as a Christian these days, I am more and more against "religion" as it has shaped out in modern times. It's embarrassing. Luckily I am a member of a pretty kick ass church. I play in the praise band for the contemporary service and we rock out! Awesome fun. We have grandmas, families, biker dudes, punko kids, you name it, quite the assortment, and its refreshing to see as noone judges the other.
 
The dude is human just like anyone else, but it pisses me off. Same sort of thing just happened to my old pastor. He cheated on his wife and now that he has been had he has decided to stay with the new lady and she is married too. This is in a small town, so of course everyone now knows. It is one thing to mess up, but it is another to keep doing it.
 
It's a breath of fresh air to hear a christian speaking frankly about the state of religion.

Most will just blindly defend it without thinking rationally. But then again when a person who bases their beliefs on just faith starts thinking rationally... well then there's trouble.
 
GeorgeB said:
It's a breath of fresh air to hear a christian speaking frankly about the state of religion.

Most will just blindly defend it without thinking rationally. But then again when a person who bases their beliefs on just faith starts thinking rationally... well then there's trouble.
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Many will just defend it, but Chrisianity is based on faith in God not in people. And a true Christian will only be worried about how this would affect non-christians and not how we feel about it. Unfortunately pastors and leaders are held to super human standards in society and that is how the whole religion is judged. Similar to our president and how the rest of the world views the U.S. based on the "media" portraying him.
 
CreationNation said:
it is yet more ammo for the anti-religion/christian folks out there to point their finger and say "see, look at THAT! Don't preach to me hypocrites!"
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that would be me...I hate all these fucking evangelists it is one of the biggest problems in america IMO...I thanked them when they kept Bush in office then I cursed them after he didnt privatize social security or put a cap on pain and suffering damages.
 
I think the main problem (well not in this case, but in most catholic priest abuse cases) is the fear of sexuality these extremly conservative religions put on people. Not only does it take a mental toll on those people who don't 'fit the mold' of the religion they grew up with- making them repress any urges until they completely overwhelm and take over the poor person- they also attract the types of people the religions tend to preach against! Where else would a homosexual pedophile go but to become a preist? No one would question their abnormal sexual behavior as they aren't supposed to exhibit any- and you are surrounded by lots of little boys!

It really warps these people's minds and causes them to 'explode', whereas other peeps in less restrictive religions find other, more constructive, outlets for their internal conflicts and desires...

just my 2 cents.
 
CreationNation said:
As a Christian myself, it ticks me off to no end because it is yet more ammo for the anti-religion/christian folks out there to point their finger and say "see, look at THAT! Don't preach to me hypocrites!" Guys like this are a sham.

I will say as a Christian these days, I am more and more against "religion" as it has shaped out in modern times. It's embarrassing. Luckily I am a member of a pretty kick ass church. I play in the praise band for the contemporary service and we rock out! Awesome fun. We have grandmas, families, biker dudes, punko kids, you name it, quite the assortment, and its refreshing to see as noone judges the other.
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I've seen bad stuff happen in more contemporary churches too.. granted it didn't involve meth or male escorts.
 
Luckily I don't belong in any church. All religions are evil. Just take a look at your history books and see how many people were killed in the name of some religion. I used to be Christian, but who wants a god that says you are bad when you born and you need to be a very goody good person to meet the requirements for heaven. And don't forget to donate some money to your church. They should sell tickets to the church in my opinion. You are expected to pay anyway.

Like one wise men said:
Adults with imaginary friends are stupid
 
Andrew said:
I've seen bad stuff happen in more contemporary churches too.. granted it didn't involve meth or male escorts.
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Don't get me wrong, it happens (as we see with 24/7 media these days) EVERYwhere, traditional, contemporary, catholic, you name it. It's a sad, sad thing.

We have people in our church (one a friend of mine) that have had life long struggles with alcohol/drugs. The difference is, when you can find a church that realize that NOONE is perfect, and that EVERYone deserves help and support, not a finger pointing in their face and backs turned on them.

I left my last church (Freewill Baptist) for various reasons (based around judgemental attitudes), but the tip of the iceberg was: Most realize here I am a huge metalhead. I run sites dedicated to it, etc. - well recall a few years back when the Great White show had that fire in Rhode Island that caused 100 peopel to burn alive. My preacher took it upon himself to say, "...and you can bet all those people are sitting in hell right now!" YAH! That could easily have been ME at that show, un-friggin-believable of a comment. I never went back. If they would stop to walk out of their glass house he could open his own Bible and read Matthew 7:1 (Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Anyways, there are a lot of snooty "Christians" in the world today, but there are a heck of a whole lot more of us who don't fit that judgemental mold. Unfortuantely, only the ones who clip up seem to make the headline news because, let's face it, they make the best top of the hour stories.
 
CreationNation, what I am saying is not a judgement on you. However christians were never instructed to "not judge". If a Christian can't judge he should never be a Teacher, Boss, Manager, Swimming instructor, Dad, Mom or Forum owner.

Matthew 7:5 says:
5
You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.
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http://bible.cc/matthew/7-3.htm
What this means is that, before you judge, you should cleanse yourself of sin first. Or you should be careful. Careful should not be confused with tolerant or accepting. However any pastor who is knee deep in the same sin he preaches against, should keep quiet.

Here is proof that you must judge and can judge....

1 Thessalonians 5:22: "Abstain from all appearance of evil."
http://bible.cc/1_thessalonians/5-22.htm
How do you avoid evil if you avoiding judging everything and accept everything ?

James 3:1-2
1 Let not many of you be teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive heavier judgment.
2 For in many things we all stumble. If anyone doesn't stumble in word, the same is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body also.
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http://bible.cc/james/3-1.htm

You can't look at an lone verse in the Bible and use it to champion an entire cause. Every bible verse has to be taken in context and the personal conclusion you come to has to match with other statements in the bible.

To fully understand a verse, it also helps to read the full chapter that is being used,

And most importantly, it's impossible to fully understand anything in the bible without asking for guidance from the Holy Spirit.




CreationNation said:
I left my last church (Freewill Baptist) for various reasons (based around judgemental attitudes), but the tip of the iceberg was: Most realize here I am a huge metalhead. I run sites dedicated to it, etc. - well recall a few years back when the Great White show had that fire in Rhode Island that caused 100 peopel to burn alive. My preacher took it upon himself to say, "...and you can bet all those people are sitting in hell right now!" YAH! That could easily have been ME at that show, un-friggin-believable of a comment. I never went back. If they would stop to walk out of their glass house he could open his own Bible and read Matthew 7:1 (Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Anyways, there are a lot of snooty "Christians" in the world today, but there are a heck of a whole lot more of us who don't fit that judgemental mold. Unfortuantely, only the ones who clip up seem to make the headline news because, let's face it, they make the best top of the hour stories.
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Well, you essentially said what I was saying (trying to) just in more words :)

The short sentence would be... "there are ways to judge, and there are ways to judge." :) I simply can't stand hypocrites in high religious positions judging/turning their backs on the "sinners" from their high horse, just for non-bible based behavior to surface in their own actions. Behavior like this, I dare say, is the biggest culprit when it comes to turning people away from caring about God or wanting to even bother checking into what "its" all about. Quite often as Christians we are our own worst enemy.
 
Guys, he didn't do that there's no way!
jk :P

Yea, as a Christian, I'll have to agree with what some others have said. Established religion could honestly be the furthest thing from true Christianity. That is, a relationship with Jesus Christ. In america it's become an institution, a hobby, or a duty. That's never what it was meant to me.

It is a shame when stuff like this happens, because undoubtedly millions will here this and judge ALL CHristians from this one event. Please don't do that, we aren't all the same. Yea, he's wrong if he did all that, and he should confess that and move on, and if he doesn't, then you have to doubt if he is a true Christian.
 
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