2012 poll - "Longshot" Paul in dead heat with Obama
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And why is that wrong? If you invade them, why is it beyond expectation for them to be mad and want to bomb us?
That's not just Paul's view, that is also the CIA's view. The CIA accepts the premise of Paul's position (blowback) as a foreign policy consequence.
I am pretty sure that is the Pentagon's view as well. Look up Dr. Robert Pape and his Chicago Project on Suicide Terrorism which I believe is partially funded by the Pentagon.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkZdn3CTgts"]YouTube- Ron Paul National Press Conference Part 1[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXI0UPld1kU"]YouTube- Ron Paul National Press Conference Part 2[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9isEHq-zPmQ"]YouTube- Ron Paul National Press Conference Part 3[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0yZ_I9ree0"]YouTube- Ron Paul National Press Conference Part 4[/ame]
Theres no need to be an ass. Ever taken a law class and learned the difference between proximate and actual cause? Yes America had a foreign policy that pissed people off and they retaliated, but that doesn't mean America is to blame for 9/11. Is japan to blame for being nuked?
Ok, so you finally admit that's his position. And like I've been saying, it turns many Americans off. Personally, it strikes me as an oversimplification of a more complex problem, but to many people, it's going to strike them as unpatriotic. And it's a real shame that a man like Ron Paul, who has good economic views, would have to be tarred with the brush of unpatriotism. If he was smart, he'd oppose overseas wars on purely budgetary reasons and have a much better shot.
So being American means equating arrogance = patriotism according to you hellblazer. How is admitting that America messed with other people's business and got messed up for it unpatriotic? we continue to do the same thing today and then wonder why people hate us everywhere. This thread reminds me why I stay out of political debates. Im done lol.
No, because you actually stated it differently in that post. Blowback is not the same as "It's all America's fault!" It'd be smarter for him to oppose it on that just for campaign purposes yes.
Hellblazer wins this thread. Lol Paul will get murdered on foreign policy. The Conservative hawks will have him hung by the balls for treason.
It'll go a little like this:
Ron Paul's "noninterventionism" fraud
A few won't be too keen on his "I don't really believe in evolution" shit either.
and shit like this will be blown out of all proportion:
Orcinus
(American Thinker: The Ron Paul Campaign and its Neo-Nazi Supporters
I think its hilarious that Stormfront's website says "Ron Paul for President" and David Duke refers to him as "our king" while at the same time various Muslim groups call voting for him "in the best interest for the entire Ummah". Someone is a little confused.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPoCsC8VT9g]YouTube - Ron Paul: Revolution - Evolution is Just R(epublican)[/ame]
holy shit, that just blew my mind, for someone as rational and logical as him to actually say "its just a theory" ....
For those of you who don't know, theory in science means "explanation for" not "My god Watson, I've got a theory!". Everything in science is a theory and subject to being amendable at anytime new evidence rebukes it.
holy shit, that just blew my mind, for someone as rational and logical as him to actually say "its just a theory" ....
For those of you who don't know, theory in science means "explanation for" not "My god Watson, I've got a theory!". Everything in science is a theory and subject to being amendable at anytime new evidence rebukes it.
This Ron Paul poll is definitely getting press. Here's one stating that Libertarianism is "going mainstream":
Hating the government finally goes mainstream | Washington Examiner
Not quite yet, but interesting. We weren't reading this shit 4 years ago.
Hating the government finally goes mainstream | Washington Examiner
Not quite yet, but interesting. We weren't reading this shit 4 years ago.
Ron Pauls view on this was exactly why I supported him, and then Obama when Paul (predictably) failed to secure nomination.
Just an FYI, "My God, Watson, I've got a theory!" was wrong less often than actual science. Not that I disagree with evolution, just pointing it out.
Paul doesn't run to win. It's funny how this basic fact is inconceivable to some folks. He has no desire to be President. He doesn't even like being a Congressman. He runs to promote ideas about freedom.
I'm pretty sure Donald Trump could come within 1 percentage point of Obama in a poll today. The point of the poll is to illustrate how conservatives (with your preferred foreign policy) have even less appeal than one of the most polarizing Presidents in the history of the United States.
No, they both get it. If you understand the motivations of both groups, Paul represents both constituencies. He represents every interest group, not just the ones who bribe him, or who have the most political power.
Freedom is appealing to everyone. That includes people who want to live an Islamic lifestyle, and people who want to live in white only communities. It's appealing to buddhists, christians, and atheists. It is appealing to straights, gays and trannies. Everyone wants to be free.
The exception is that tiny minority of idiots who truly believe that war and welfare are necessary for greatness. But again, most people are not fucking retards like that. Most people do not have a personal interest in empire or mass movements. The people attracted to those things are sociopaths or people with very low self-esteem.
When people attack Paul over his supporters and not his ideas, they lose. Fox and the GOP tried that during the last election and it blew up in their faces (see the poll!!). Paul is now bigger than Fox and the GOP.
This poll just reinforces that the days of the Neocon worldview as a relevant political ideology are at an end. People will take the Marxist [sic] over anyone on the right but perhaps Ron Paul.
And that shift in populist thinking should worry the warfare/welfare collectivists more than a 75 year old grandfather with ideas about peace and sound money.
It sorta exposes how pathetic his detractors are when all they can do is draw out the same old slanders against his supporters, and overreact to his popularity, when it is their lack of ideas and principles which allows for his ascendancy in the first place.
Inconceivable to the Paulnuts apparently, since at least two Ron Paul supporters posted this poll and they were jizzing all over it. If he doesn't actually want to be President, maybe somebody should clue his followers in, because it sounds like they're not on the same page.
By that same standard, Ron Paul has less appeal as well. Nobody's beaten Obama in a projected 2012 run, according to the much-vaunted polls. But in order for anyone to believe that, they'd have to take the polls as gospel, which I don't. I think they're invariably tilted to the left, and Obama's in way worse trouble than is portrayed. And he knows it.
Not sure who you're referring to, as most conservatives I know don't care about empire or shedding blood simply for "greatness". Care to clarify? Or were you just hoping that Godzilla-sized strawman would slip past?
I'll assume you're talking about realistic conservatives who understand we have enemies when referring to 'neocons' and simply say that if you truly believe that balderdash, you must be completely wasted. Like I said, the Paulnuts are orgasming over this poll. And again, not like it truly excites me or anything, but GOP contenders drew decent numbers when paired up against him for 2012. I don't know where you're getting this "huge disparity" narrative from. The people simply hate Obama.
It's hardly "slander" to realize the cold, harsh political realities facing RP if he ran. Like it or not, his statements on foreign policy can be manipulated to be perceived in a certain light. I'm not sure why this is "slander" - it's obvious to anyone who hasn't invested their heart and soul into the man and can look objectively at his chances. He's good on economic policy, overly simplistic on foreign policy. And it would probably be better for his supporters to realize his "detractors" are approaching their opposition to him based on obvious and reasoned decisions rather than these enormous strawmen arguments currently being erected.
Like guerilla said, this poll shows how well Ron Paul's message is resonating with the masses and likewise how poorly that of most other conservatives is.
Please re-read my post. I said a very small number were interested in these things, and that most people are not.
No, I mean neocons. Like Krauthammer in your sig. Straussians/Trotskyites/Radical Leftists who appeal to the ancient greek philosophers like Plato, ironically your other sig quote.
When I say socialist, or marxist, or neocon, I mean something very specific that is very well understood in an academic or intellectual sense. I do not just toss these labels around as epithets as you are sometimes wont to do. I use them to describe carefully what it is exactly I am talking about.
You're missing the point in the poll, you're missing the point of my post.
You hate Obama. The Tea Party people/independents hate big government.
Those are not the same things.
It was cheap slander to conflate his support with white supremacy or Islamism.
It's all one policy. Your foreign policy positions are inconsistent with your economic positions. A warfare/security state is not any more compatible with small constitutional government than a welfare state.