America's debt is trivial.

[riddarhusetgal]

idiot leftist = I like to read, go to museums, travel and can spell my own name

socialist = I can't see Russia from my house

welfare statist = Employ a half dozen people all of whom are paid out of supranormal profits, and actually like me

communist = I subscribe to the beliefs of the wealthiest capitalists in history (Buffet, Gates, Carnegie)

.....hmmm so many delicious choices, it's hard to choose

 

[guerilla]

guerilla = "minimum wage is bad!"

moxie = "even if it is, it hasn't been bad enough to prevent countries like the USA from becoming the richest in human history."

That's mostly all I've been trying to say. I'm not sure what's so confusing.

What is confusing is the point you are (not?) trying to make.

I said minimum wage is bad. You claim that it is not very bad. You can't prove your position, I can prove mine. One of us is not making a very clear statement.

I watched the video. Yes, less expenses is more opportunity to hire people, but I'll just point out that minimum wage jobs are often fulfilling specific tasks that have a finite number. You can have people willing to work for free, but there is only so many minutes that can be spent stocking a grocery store.

There are not a finite number of jobs in an economy. Demand is limitless. I want non-stop steak and Maseratis. When I get that, I want my own aircraft carrier, and a space shuttle. Then I will want a mars base and 1000 robot butlers.

The reason I can't have/afford them, is that they are scarce, that is there is not enough labor to create them at prices which approach zero.

We keep coming back to this notion that an economy is a closed, static system. It is not. Just as there are not a finite number of blogs, or demand for blogs, there is not a finite number of groceries, grocery stores, or shelves to stock. The number needed is dynamic, it expands AND contracts in real time.

That is why central planners cannot organize an economy. They do not have the relevant local knowledge as quickly as someone who is in the store, with cash in hand, looking for organic, raw, vegan, gluten free soy sauce. By the time they mandate that all stores carry such a product, that person has already gone home, made their own, changed their menu, or ordered it from Amazon.

 

[Moxie]

What is confusing is the point you are (not?) trying to make.

I said minimum wage is bad. You claim that it is not very bad. You can't prove your position, I can prove mine. One of us is not making a very clear statement.

Again, I'm saying it wasn't bad enough for it to prevent the USA from doing what it has done. Do I really need to prove over a message board that the USA has been a relatively successful country over the last 60 years?

brother one says "our father is bad" = black or white statement that may be true

brother two says "at least he was able to put food on our table" = shade of grey that can also be true

 

[papajohn56]

Again, I'm saying it wasn't bad enough for it to prevent the USA from doing what it has done. Do I really need to prove over a message board that the USA has been a relatively successful country over the last 60 years?

brother one says "our father is bad" = black or white statement that may be true

brother two says "at least he was able to put food on our table" = shade of grey that can also be true

We could have been more successful without it, and may not be losing so many jobs to China and India.

 

[guerilla]

brother one says "our father is bad" = black or white statement that may be true

brother two says "at least he was able to put food on our table" = shade of grey that can also be true

Do you know what a non sequitur is? That is what you continue to advance in this discussion. It is a logical error.

 

[riddarhusetgal]

guerilla = "minimum wage is bad!"

moxie = "even if it is, it hasn't been bad enough to prevent countries like the USA from becoming the richest in human history."

That's mostly all I've been trying to say. I'm not sure what's so confusing.

I watched the video. Yes, less expenses is more opportunity to hire people, but I'll just point out that minimum wage jobs are often fulfilling specific tasks that have a finite number. You can have people willing to work for free, but there is only so many minutes that can be spent stocking a grocery store.

Dr. George Friedman | STRATFOR
Dr. Friedman received his bachelor’s degree from the City College of the City University of New York and holds a Ph.D. in government from Cornell University.

.....Um no offense but why are you defending a point made by a recognized legitimate expert on an internet marketing forum? Besides the fact that what you contend is glaringly obvious to anyone with one or two neurons to spare? Let alone the ability to draw an indifference curve with a Crayola Crayon...

Move on and go make monies dear....

 

[papajohn56]

Dr. George Friedman | STRATFOR
Dr. Friedman received his bachelor’s degree from the City College of the City University of New York and holds a Ph.D. in government from Cornell University.

.....Um no offense but why are you defending a point made by a recognized legitimate expert on an internet marketing forum? Besides the fact that what you contend is glaringly obvious to anyone with one or two neurons to spare? Let alone the ability to draw an indifference curve with a Crayola Crayon...

Move on and go make monies dear....

A Ph.D in government does not make one an Economist. Why are you trying to justify a flawed position?

 

[guerilla]

A Ph.D in government does not make one an Economist.

I would argue that someone who has a degree in government is at a deficit when discussing free markets with a layman. Think about the bullshit premises our esteemed expert is predisposed to start with.

Why are you trying to justify a flawed position?

Cognitive dissonance.

She complained in the relationship thread about online relationship advice after giving some herself, and she posted to Moxie that he shouldn't have to defend an expert, when she then proceeded to do the same.

This is what she does. I think nearly everyone can spot it now.

Let alone the ability to draw an indifference curve with a Crayola Crayon...

From Gene Callahan, author of Economics for Real People

Indifferences curves depict the limit of a process in which we have assumed:

• all goods can be divided into arbitrarily small units;
• humans take such infinitesimal amounts into consideration when choosing; and
• the transaction costs in any exchange can be made arbitrarily small.

If we keep the above (admittedly unrealistic) assumptions in mind then indifference curves can be used in much the same way as other limit constructs. However, they bear only a distant, very abstract resemblance to real economic activity. Not only are goods not perfectly divisible physically, but human considerations when choosing are even lumpier. When picking breakfast, I typically might choose between having two eggs or a bowl of cereal. The fact that if I were a preference-maximizing computer I would choose 1.0374 eggs and .462 bowls of cereal has only a remote bearing on what I will have for breakfast.​

Lesson? Econometrics is not economics. Real preferences cannot be modeled mathematically.

Perhaps you should take your own advice, and

Move on and go make monies dear....

I struggle to believe your business is going so well you decided to take some time to return to WF and resume trolling.

 

[LotsOfZeros]

I struggle to believe your business is going so well you decided to take some time to return to WF and resume trolling.

Bam!

I thought the two of you were buddies. What happened to the love?

 

[Moxie]

We could have been more successful without it, and may not be losing so many jobs to China and India.

This is a logical reply.

Do you know what a non sequitur is? That is what you continue to advance in this discussion. It is a logical error.

"Non sequitur, in formal logic, is an argument..."


Minimum wage is part of the economic system, players are part of a team.

"some of our players suck" - argument

"we were still able to win the championship" - I'd call that a factual observation related to the original argument, but you can call it what you want. Most people would at least consider it a "normal" discussion.

Move on and go make monies dear....

:food-smiley-002:

 

[papajohn56]

Bam!

I thought the two of you were buddies. What happened to the love?

People always accuse libertarians of being liberal or conservative. We side with the right on certain things, then when we argue for civil liberties we're called "dirty liberals", we agree with the left on some things and then when we argue for economic freedom we're called "corporate fascists".

Reality is you're both wrong and are just being puppets of the system

 

[LotsOfZeros]

If you're not the one pulling the strings ...

 

[kpaulmedia]

Anyone see Brazil's richest man on Charlie Rose a while back? That was interesting...

Anyone here from Brazil or South America?

 

[turbolapp]

guerilla speaks...idiot leftist, socialist, welfare statist and communist should listen.

Don't use guerilla's insights to push your own agendas. Let common sense reign and keep the bullshit out for once.

 

[hellblazer]

Dr. George Friedman | STRATFOR
Dr. Friedman received his bachelor’s degree from the City College of the City University of New York and holds a Ph.D. in government from Cornell University.

.....Um no offense but why are you defending a point made by a recognized legitimate expert on an internet marketing forum? Besides the fact that what you contend is glaringly obvious to anyone with one or two neurons to spare? Let alone the ability to draw an indifference curve with a Crayola Crayon...

Move on and go make monies dear....

Dear Lord, not a 'recognized legitimate expert' with a 'Ph.D'!!!

If a 'recognized legitimate expert' with a 'Ph.D' told Riddar to jump off a bridge, she would say "how high?"

guerilla = "minimum wage is bad!"

moxie = "even if it is, it hasn't been bad enough to prevent countries like the USA from becoming the richest in human history."

More like:

Guerilla: "The minimum wage sucks."
Moxie: "Yeah, it sucks, but capitalism is so awesome it succeeds in spite of it!"

Out of all the possible arguments, it's probably the dumbest one to make, but the trusty brainwashed liberal feels he has to defend liberal policies, so he ends up trying to minimize the damage they cause. Sad.

 

[BigWill]

Unemployment is a social myth created by government intervention in the economy. Prior to minimum wage, unemployment benefits, retraining programs, hiring standards etc, anyone could find work if he wanted to.

Why?

Very true I often say the same things. I see it on a daily basis. People wanting to get paid more than what their job is worth.

 

[guerilla]

I watched it. Then watched parts 1 and 3. Good stuff.

Awesome. When I post, I hope at least one person gets something out of it (even if they disagree).

welfare statist = Employ a half dozen people all of whom are paid out of supranormal profits, and actually like me

Charity is not welfare. You're welcome to be charitable with your own money, when you try to force other people to spend money the way you want them to, that is welfare statism.

Also, supranormal profits means you don't have competition.

Also, you must be pretty new to employing people. They don't like you. They like that you pay them. When you stop paying them, they will like their new boss. People put up with all sorts of bullshit to earn a wage.

I thought the two of you were buddies. What happened to the love?

She reminds me of a particular James Brown song. (tinyurl to avoid YT embed, not dickroll)

People always accuse libertarians of being liberal or conservative. We side with the right on certain things, then when we argue for civil liberties we're called "dirty liberals", we agree with the left on some things and then when we argue for economic freedom we're called "corporate fascists".

Well said. Libertarians agree with right and left on freedom, but disagree on left and right statism.

Very true I often say the same things. I see it on a daily basis. People wanting to get paid more than what their job is worth.

Yup.




Everyone wants to be paid more, but competition (attracted by high profits) keeps wages and margins in check naturally. The problem with minimum wage legislation is that it locks out unskilled workers from the labor force, and raises the wages of skilled workers artificially through less competition.

Those skilled workers are then taxed to pay welfare and entitlements to the people who are locked out by minimum wage.

So neither group really benefits. What has happened though, is we now have two political constituencies who have become dependent on the state to give them higher wages or welfare.

Thus it becomes a rationale for propping up the system (empowering politicians, regulation and taxation) over time. This is the false right-left paradigm. A duel between two equally wrong positions that makes everyone poorer.

 

[LotsOfZeros]

Everyone wants to be paid more, but competition (attracted by high profits) keeps wages and margins in check naturally. The problem with minimum wage legislation is that it locks out unskilled workers from the labor force, and raises the wages of skilled workers artificially through less competition.

Those skilled workers are then taxed to pay welfare and entitlements to the people who are locked out by minimum wage.

So neither group really benefits. What has happened though, is we now have two political constituencies who have become dependent on the state to give them higher wages or welfare.

Thus it becomes a rationale for propping up the system (empowering politicians, regulation and taxation) over time. This is the false right-left paradigm. A duel between two equally wrong positions that makes everyone poorer.

Can I please have your baby.... or if that doesn't work for you, maybe at least a short term Bro-mance?

 

[guerilla]

Can I please have your baby.... or if that doesn't work for you, maybe at least a short term Bro-mance?

I am a dwarf, standing on the shoulders of giants.

But thanks for the appreciation.

 

[vinny lingo]

I am a dwarf, standing on the shoulders of giants.

But thanks for the appreciation.

How long have you been studying all this?

I only started about two and a half years ago, and while I try to read as much as I can, I have pretty large demans on my time (two toddlers will do that to you).

You're light years ahead of me.