Anyone canceling insurance because of Obamacare?

You do understand that all that quote is saying is that pre-ACA, they can set a $2m limit and after 1 jan 2014 when ACA goes into full effect they can't do that anymore. Right?

Yes, I understand. There's a reason unlimited insurance payouts don't exist in the free market. It doesn't make financial sense. Likewise with forcing companies to take on people with pre-existing conditions. That's similar to letting people buy car insurance AFTER an accident and then forcing the companies to payout for the accident. Imagine if the gov't then forced the auto insurance companies to get rid of all payout limits. Anyone who supports Obamacare is either an idiot or a parasite.
 


Foreigners flock to America because it's a country that doesn't let you fail. Once you live here for long enough, though, you realize that is exactly the problem.
 
I know zip, zero, jack shit about Obamacare and the insurance exchanges. But I'll tell you what I do know. I'm on my wife's group plan with her employer and we pay $1495/month for a Blue Cross HMO with a $45 doctor visit copay and an annual family deductible of about $7000. Her employer pays for her percentage which is about $400/month. I have to get my knee scoped in about a month and I think it's going to cost me $1500 for an outpatient surgery center visit. Meanwhile the folks on welfare have insurance at little or no cost, and the middle class get insurance premiums shoved up their ass.
 
The exchanges are for suckers.
Hire a health care consultation firm, it's free. They get a referral fee from the insurance companies but it doesn't affect you or make it more expensive. They will find you internal plans that are much better and also cheaper. They'll negotiate the premiums and get you more coverage for less. They'll also sit down with you and give you the plan details both before and after ACA kicks in so you're not making dumbfuck guesses. After you buy they'll continue to consult and offer you support including possibly negotiating denied claims. Since they send a lot of business to the various providers they hold a lot more leverage than your GWM self. If you use the exchanges you are absolutely getting ripped off.

PS. You are absolutely allowed to hire more than one and pin them against each other in the same room.
 
The exchanges are for suckers.
Hire a health care consultation firm, it's free. They get a referral fee from the insurance companies but it doesn't affect you or make it more expensive. They will find you internal plans that are much better and also cheaper. They'll negotiate the premiums and get you more coverage for less. They'll also sit down with you and give you the plan details both before and after ACA kicks in so you're not making dumbfuck guesses. After you buy they'll continue to consult and offer you support including possibly negotiating denied claims. Since they send a lot of business to the various providers they hold a lot more leverage than your GWM self. If you use the exchanges you are absolutely getting ripped off.

Sorry to sound dumb and I'm sure I can google it and sift through the hundreds of affiliate guys.. but you know a reputable company?

Sidenote: Ever since the ACA was announced my coverage has become a LOT less, my deductible has gotten higher and oh yeah... I'm paying about 70% more then before... As well as a penalty of $200 a month for carrying my wife since her companys plan is worse then mine and I want to keep carrying her on my plan.

GRMPH!
 
Sorry to sound dumb and I'm sure I can google it and sift through the hundreds of affiliate guys.. but you know a reputable company?

Sidenote: Ever since the ACA was announced my coverage has become a LOT less, my deductible has gotten higher and oh yeah... I'm paying about 70% more then before... As well as a penalty of $200 a month for carrying my wife since her companys plan is worse then mine and I want to keep carrying her on my plan.

GRMPH!
If it's in the phonebook its probably legit. You can call several and have them all meet you in person at the same time. Layout exactly what you're looking for and your concerns. I found it was useful to layout one single goal such as "I have $X to spend/month and i want the best post ACA approved plan for that or less" or "I have these health concerns and need plans that ___ come back to me with the best prices." Then give them a week or two to research and negotiate plans for you and have them battle out their plans with you in the second meeting.
 
I'm guessing the Kaiser estimates are based on people actually signing up for the plans. However, when most people see that the rates are higher after subsidy than pre-TUCA rates, they will balk. Even if I got a 50% subsidy, the cheapest exchange plan would be about as expensive as my current plan. But... I have a lower deductible by a couple thousand!

If someone couldn't afford cheaper pre-TUCA rates, I doubt they will be able to afford subsidized TUCA rates.

Another thing. These rates are just the beginning. If not enough suckers sign up, rates will go up.

According to the article and others, individuals earning under $45,960, or a family of four under $94,200, are limited to a percent of their income on a sliding scale.

So if few people signed up or if premium rates hypothetically went up to $10,000 a month, the $17,235 a year earner would still be charged no more than 4% ($57 a month) for one of the silver plans.
 
According to the article and others, individuals earning under $45,960, or a family of four under $94,200, are limited to a percent of their income on a sliding scale.

So if few people signed up or if premium rates hypothetically went up to $10,000 a month, the $17,235 a year earner would still be charged no more than 4% ($57 a month) for one of the silver plans.

Well, that would be a mess, wouldn't it? Taxpayers, of which there are relatively few in America, would have to foot the bill for increased subsidy payments to the insurance companies. Also, anyone who doesn't get the subsidy would be screwed even more! It's an idiotic statist plan.

http://surgerycenterofoklahoma.tumblr.com/post/64231736474/a-monopoly-on-violence
 
Well, that would be a mess, wouldn't it? Taxpayers, of which there are relatively few in America, would have to foot the bill for increased subsidy payments to the insurance companies. Also, anyone who doesn't get the subsidy would be screwed even more! It's an idiotic statist plan.

G. Keith Smith, M.D. - A monopoly on violence - A monopoly on violence

well, he finally takes some clues from his more modern brothers over here in europe. youre so lucky youve finally got a president who is not some redneck dipshit.
 
The pieces to this puzzle as I see them:

50 million people don't have insurance, and many of them vote.
Even though insurance really doesn't = "health care," in practice that's pretty much what happens.
Polls say that only around 1.5% of those without insurance don't want it/"choose" not to have. The rest don't have employer-subsidized plans and/or say they can't afford, or have pre-existing conditions.
We don't have a free-market system. Would be nice, but we don't. We had the world's biggest welfare state as far back as 1900. We've had social welfare programs of patronage forever. We do seem to get less bang for the buck though (if you plot things like health spending w/access and against life expectancy)
We already subsidize plenty of groups of people at the expense of others.
Most people exist and will continue to live around "the middle."
In a 2-party system, parties have to cater to the middle, obviously.
The middle-class gets the subsidies.
Working Poor individuals in non-Medicaid Expansion states get neither free coverage nor subsidies.
Even in an individualistic society such as ours, people tend to overwhelmingly support things that are "for the children." So free healthcare for poor kids is mostly covered and supported by voters.
We have a tiered system, with access tied to working or not working, but also working for the "right" kind of employer in preferred industries.
Insurance coverage not only covers who pays and how things are paid, but also how much. I've seen (and paid) bills for the same exact procedure with no insurance/cash negotiated rates, employer (and taxpayer) subsidized group insurance, and private Blue Cross coverage. Interesting stuff, to say the least.
Insurance systems work best either at 100% (universal coverage) or 0% coverage.

We do have problems with health costs and access. In many ways we have a "crisis of abundance." Politicians normally want to "do something." The ones that don't attempt to do anything when there is an obvious problem are not going to win. The issue is how to approach the issue, not whether there is one. We could debate things like whether we would be better off if the government had done nothing in the wake of the Depression, for example. But most people support FDR and subsequent programs.

This is about politics, not principle. For any side- at least the ones engaged in politics. The principled philosophical arguments are good but mostly irrelevant in this context.

Politicians of all (successful) parties are good at the class-warfare game and playing up American Dream dissonance and attitudes that are not reflected in empirical data.

Like anything with taxes/penalties, there are ways to get around penalties and exploit the system.
 
P.S. The "Obama voters are stupid" stuff makes me giggle like a gay webmaster. Because literally just a couple of days ago no one was coming out in support of his nemesis, the Tea Party and their dope government shut down moves. Remember, someone voted for them too ;)
I'm in full support of everything the "radical" (think of what caused this thread, btw - nothing radical about TUCA, right?) Tea Party does. Starting with shutting down the government. Both sides of the failed aisles, Obama-worshipping mass media, Occupy Wall Street, the former (2003-Nov 2008) anti-war movement, and Hollywood all detest the Tea Party, a party that's routinely targeted by IRS.

That tells me the Tea Party is onto something.

Maybe it's their platform. It hints at individual responsibility and less taxes and less government. Crazy stuff.
 
Do you really have faith in those poll numbers? I'm not talking about their accuracy. What I'm talking about is the level of understanding of the questions asked.

82% favored banning insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.

Do those 82% really understand that means their premiums will go up in addition to the general cost of healthcare? Are they still in favor?

That's what's so "great" about the ACA. Now, we'll get to see just how passionate people are about their convictions because they'll HAVE to pay more to cover the people that didn't have to be covered before.

82% favored banning insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.
61% favored allowing children to stay on their parents' insurance until age 26.
72% supported requiring companies with more than 50 employees to provide insurance for their employees.

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Kaiser Family Foundation estimates that 48% of Americans who buy individual insurance today would be eligible for subsidies. They would receive an average of $5,548, which would cover 66% of the price.

Obamacare subsidies: How much will you get? - Aug. 21, 2013



Maybe, but sports team owners and their fans who want tax payer money to help pay for arenas aren't necessarily "stupid" either.
 
In HK private health insurance only costs me $25 USD a month, and there's free good quality public health care available too. HK has the both private hospitals and public hospitals. I choose to use the private hospitals to avoid the queue, but the public option is always available too.

The best part is the HK government doesn't tax anyone to death either. The top tax bracket is 16%, and offshore non HK derived income is taxed at 0%.

Man the US is so ass backwards. I'm so glad I left it in 2004.
 
Didn't really pay any attention to Obombacare. The week it launched I bought health insurance on the interwebs for $100/mo (just moved to CA, also didn't realize I bought it that same week). High deductible but only using it for catastrophic events...price seemed fair to me.
 
In HK private health insurance only costs me $25 USD a month, and there's free good quality public health care available too. HK has the both private hospitals and public hospitals. I choose to use the private hospitals to avoid the queue, but the public option is always available too.

The best part is the HK government doesn't tax anyone to death either. The top tax bracket is 16%, and offshore non HK derived income is taxed at 0%.

Man the US is so ass backwards. I'm so glad I left it in 2004.


US taxation makes no sense. You pay almost European levels of taxes with no healthcare or higher education included. I pay ~$700 a year in Czech Republic for full coverage. I'm guessing that would be a few months of emergency only care in the US.
 
In HK private health insurance only costs me $25 USD a month, and there's free good quality public health care available too. HK has the both private hospitals and public hospitals. I choose to use the private hospitals to avoid the queue, but the public option is always available too.

The best part is the HK government doesn't tax anyone to death either. The top tax bracket is 16%, and offshore non HK derived income is taxed at 0%.

Man the US is so ass backwards. I'm so glad I left it in 2004.

Also, no Captain Gains tax or Dividend Tax in HK.