Anyone still following Ron Paul?

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airforcematt

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Dec 22, 2006
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Curious as several on here at least expressed interest in him back during the presidential campaign. I'm going to be going to the rally he's holding in St Paul - supposed to be a kickoff for a constitutional educational group of some sort. Any other WF members happen to be going?
 


I still follow him. His ideas and the people that support him are more real than all the other prez candidates put together.

I cant make the Rally for money and time reasons. I am out of vacation days.
 
I will never follow him for a few reasons.
1) He has referred to himself as "an unshakable foe of abortion"
2)Libertarian economic policy is shit.
But at the same time, I admit I love probably 75% of his policies. That 25% is a fucking bitch though.
 
nobodys perfect.

i was heavy into Ron Paul when he had a fighting chance, now i don't follow him as much anymore but i will definitely read up on any news that comes my way.

fuck voting in 2008!
 
I will never follow him for a few reasons.
1) He has referred to himself as "an unshakable foe of abortion"
2)Libertarian economic policy is shit.
But at the same time, I admit I love probably 75% of his policies. That 25% is a fucking bitch though.
Libertarian economic policy is not shit. Some people have misconceptions about it. I'd be happy to discuss any questions you have.

nobodys perfect.

i was heavy into Ron Paul when he had a fighting chance, now i don't follow him as much anymore but i will definitely read up on any news that comes my way.
Ron Paul’s Campaign For Liberty | The Revolution Continues

fuck voting in 2008!
Nothing ever changes. It's not because people do or don't vote, it's because the people who select the choices and count the votes have all of the control. You'll never see "real change" on the debate stage, or at the top of the ballot. You'll never see any "real change" winning a primary without compromising themselves to the party elite and bankers/brokers/profiteers.

Voting just makes people feel like they are involved. I mean really, are Obama and McCain the best America can come up with? For crissakes, the contestants on American Idol have more going for them!
 
Libertarian economic policy is not shit. Some people have misconceptions about it. I'd be happy to discuss any questions you have.
Ok. Broad and sweeping lack of governmental control over anything economic(the hard line view) is, imo, shit.
Insider trading = Shit.
Lack of IRS investigation in any way=Lack of ways to bust companies like enron.
Completely open markets have a tendency to create monopolies that truly cannot be competed against.
Corporate sabotage.
 
There's a big difference between free markets which Ron Paul advocates, and the pseudo-free markets we think we have today. Monopolies and giant corporations come from lobbying our government to create laws and loopholes that allow such things to take place.
 
There's a big difference between free markets which Ron Paul advocates, and the pseudo-free markets we think we have today. Monopolies and giant corporations come from lobbying our government to create laws and loopholes that allow such things to take place.
I'd prefer they have to lobby for it than have there be no need for loopholes because the corporate goals are already available w/o the loophope.
 
Ok. Broad and sweeping lack of governmental control over anything economic(the hard line view) is, imo, shit.
You do realize that less government, equals more personal freedom, right?

Insider trading = Shit.
Not sure how this relates.

Lack of IRS investigation in any way=Lack of ways to bust companies like enron.
Totally not true. The banks and exchanges could demand investigative authority to audit, but they don't because everyone assumes the government is doing it.

And when Enron got busted, who got their money back? Post facto justice doesn't do much for the victim.

Completely open markets have a tendency to create monopolies that truly cannot be competed against.
This is a myth. The only monopoly is government, and they have the ability to create small monopolies through regulation. Regulation is usually written by the corporations in order to prevent competition from startups and to allow for price fixing (fixed rates of price increases).

In a free market, where there are no regulatory barriers to entry, anyone can start a competitor firm, and don't have to solicit enormous amounts of capital in order to maintain crazy overheads in order to meet compliance criteria.

Cell phones and computers are unregulated. Seems to be a lot of competition there. What about software? Pretty competitive there too. What about affiliate marketing? Super-competitive industry. Now let's look at the drug industry. The auto industry. The banking industry. Heavily regulated, very difficult to break into. Hmmmm....

Corporate sabotage.
Libertarian economics (which is usually Austrian economics based) advocates personal contracts, sound money (that can't be counterfeited) and free markets to allow for competition. The internet is your ultimate libertarian economic experiment. If you hate libertarian economic ideas, you must not think the internet manages to provide opportunity, low prices and diversity.
 
I'd prefer they have to lobby for it than have there be no need for loopholes because the corporate goals are already available w/o the loophope.
The lobbyists already control the legislative process. They've figured out the game, where they don't lobby for more, they lobby for less, for startups and their competitors. It's a form of negative lobbying, that looks great to the grassroots activists!

YEAH! SCREW BUSINESS! PUT THEM IN CHAINS! Meanwhile, the corporations lobbying and writing the legislation, make sure they are the only one with a key, or in a cell with a window.

Regulation = bad for business, bad for freedom, bad for competition.

Lobbying = buying legal power from the government.
 
You do realize that less government, equals more personal freedom, right?
Hence my conflicted feelings about the libertarian party.
Not sure how this relates.
A completely unregulated market would allow insider trading. Or do the stock traders not benefit from laissez faire?

Totally not true. The banks and exchanges could demand investigative authority to audit, but they don't because everyone assumes the government is doing it.
And when Enron got busted, who got their money back? Post facto justice doesn't do much for the victim.
But why would the banks do that and risk losing multi billion dollar clients?
This is a myth. The only monopoly is government, and they have the ability to create small monopolies through regulation. Regulation is usually written by the corporations in order to prevent competition from startups and to allow for price fixing (fixed rates of price increases).
The reason corporations lobby the gov't is for abilities that they don't have that will benefit them. So if that was allowed by default, it would stand to reason that they would have all these benefits.
In a free market, where there are no regulatory barriers to entry, anyone can start a competitor firm, and doesn't have to solicit enormous amounts of capital in order to maintain crazy overheads in order to meet compliance criteria.
Unless the big supplier negotiates 100% exclusive contracts with the companies yours relies on. Then you have to outbid or die.
Or unless they buy out the entire supply of raw_material_x to create a false shortage so you can't compete.
or any number of situations. Capital to startup is here to stay.
Cell phones and computers are unregulated. Seems to be a lot of competition there. What about software? Pretty competitive there too. What about affiliate marketing? Super-competitive industry. Now let's look at the drug industry. The auto industry. The banking industry. Heavily regulated, very difficult to break into. Hmmmm....
Cell phones and computers are unregulated? You have not heard of the FCC, or FTC have you? and computers are regulated. They just happen to be regulated by a smaller, but more dangerous group(the FBI/CIA/other acronyms/alphabet club). Less regulation, but if you get "regulated" there's a much higher danger.
Libertarian economics (which is usually Austrian economics based) advocates personal contracts, sound money (that can't be counterfeited) and free markets will allow for competition. The internet is your ultimate libertarian economic experiment. If you hate libertarian economic ideas, you must not think the internet manages to provide opportunity, low prices an diversity.
It's not a libertarian experiment. Many states are taxed. Many industries are regulated. Search for "rizler pharmacy" (w/o quotes) and see how unregulated it is.
 
Hence my conflicted feelings about the libertarian party.
Paul is not in the libertarian party. He rejected it after the '88 presidential run. That party is slowly being co-opted by the right. Unfortunately.

A completely unregulated market would allow insider trading. Or do the stock traders not benefit from laissez faire?
Why wouldn't the exchanges, brokers, dealers and traders regulate the market? Do you not regulate your own stuff, or do you allow the government to regulate your spending, your investing, your business deals etc?

Btw, I don't want to come across as confrontational, which I have a habit of doing because I'm really passionate about this topic. But I am trying to aggressively head off some assumptions that are generally held and maybe provoke people to think them over again. So no hard feelings if I come across the wrong way.


But why would the banks do that and risk losing multi billion dollar clients?
Because there would be market demand for secure investments. Banks sell products. They sell to the low end, and the high end. Believe me, you can already aggressively speculate with these hyper hedge funds that are super-leveraged. Or you can make more conservative investments.

If you're a multi-billion dollar client, why would you invest with a bank or stock that doesn't follow audit procedures? The only reason people do it now, is that they *ASSUME* the SEC et al are on top of it, when in reality, they are the ones being paid to look the other way, because the government has no liability if the service they provide fails. Just ask the people from pre-Katrina New Orleans.

The reason corporations lobby the gov't is for abilities that they don't have that will benefit them. So if that was allowed by default, it would stand to reason that they would have all these benefits.
No, corporations now lobby for negative rights. They play the game and keep us (you and me) thinking that this regulation is really slowing down the big boys, the corporate monsters. But do we really believe that they are any weaker now than they were 10 or 20 years ago? Of course not. that's where reality intersects with ideology, and ideology fails the test.


Unless the big supplier negotiates 100% exclusive contracts with the companies yours relies on. Then you have to outbid or die.
Or unless they buy out the entire supply of raw_material_x to create a false shortage so you can't compete.
or any number of situations.
Then if you are smart, you don't compete against someone who can outbid you. If your theory is that big companies should have to compete like small ones, then that's a form of corporate socialism. If you ported that to the rank and file citizens, it would be an argument against people who make a lot of money being able to outbid the poor guy for an expensive watch or car. If I make a lot of money, I expect to be able to outbid the middle class when purchasing from a limited supply of yachts. And I expect to be able to afford to buy 100 loaves of bread. Or raw material X.

The reason why speculators buying up a supply doesn't work, is because you have a limited window to sell when the demand is highest and supply lowest. Demand has a ceiling, and supply has a floor. The longer supply is suppressed, the greater chance that demand will fall (people will look for alternative goods). This is the basis of Say's Law.

Cell phones and computers are unregulated? You have not heard of the FCC, or FTC have you? and computers are regulated. They just happen to be regulated by a smaller, but more dangerous group(the FBI/CIA/other acronyms/alphabet club). Less regulation, but if you get "regulated" there's a much higher danger.
I think you know what I mean. The production environment is not regulated. There are not high tariffs on their import. The design specs, and features are not highly regulated. Phones are designed, produced and off the market in under 6 months. If they had to wait for regulatory approval, people would still be talking on these,

motorolacellularonecellnd7.jpg



It's not a libertarian experiment. Many states are taxed. Many industries are regulated. Search for "rizler pharmacy" (w/o quotes) and see how unregulated it is.
That's offline regulation. Not online, it just trickles through. Imagine if all of your sites were regulated. Every script you write for your BH. Imagine if every one of your leads had to be documented, and checked against a DB, with reports submitted to the government showing your activity.

Imagine if your host had to submit details on you, your IP, your payments, your use of bandwidth etc. Costs would go up. What if hosts had to be licensed by the government? Would we have more or less?

I can feel the force within you. It is strong. BHers are anti-state, anti-system by nature.
 
Not anymore.

I have come to the conclusion that the American public now deserves another George W. Bush because of their carelessness in electing establishment candidates during the primaries.
 
Ron Paul destroyed my faith in American politics. Why? Because he's one of the maybe, I dunno, five honest and ethical politicians out there.

No matter which side of the aisle they're on, 99% of politicians are corrupt, lying sacks of shit.
 
Curious as several on here at least expressed interest in him back during the presidential campaign. I'm going to be going to the rally he's holding in St Paul - supposed to be a kickoff for a constitutional educational group of some sort. Any other WF members happen to be going?

Just because he's not on CNN doesn't mean he's not right.

Believe in something or fall for everything.
 
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