LOL; You owned Guerilla!
If that's so why did you keep asking for the thread to be closed and eventually stopped responding?
LOL... :jester:
Big Banks Sued Over Mortgage Failure / Fraud
- Thread starter Rusky
- Start date
If that's so why did you keep asking for the thread to be closed and eventually stopped responding?
LOL... :jester:
I would like guerilla or someone else as knowledgeable to answer this for me... I will keep this a simple setup as I know there is more to what Im about to print, but for keeping it simple:
1. Citizen buys home for 300k, gets mortgage with bank
2. Citizen pays for 4 years, shit happens and can't make payment
3. Bank forecloses on home, or puts them into the process, either way the bank didnt get their full 300k on the loan paid back to them.
4. Bank now owns the 300k home
5. Bank goes to government, they need a 300k bailout cause citizen defaulted on their loan
6. Bank gets the said 300k bailout
This confuses me somewhat. Someone sold the home to the original citizen and they got 300k for the purchase of the home. The bank now has a loan set up with the citizen for 300k, but the citizen defaults and the bank now owns their 300k home, but also gets a 300k bailout from the government.
So seller got 300k, citizen homeowner gets shafted to fuck with no home and bad credit score, and the bank gets 300k for free plus retains ownership to a 300k home so thats like 600k they made on nothing. To balance things out, shouldn't the homeowner got to keep their home and $0 owed in their mortgage now? Wasn't the government basically bailing out the default mortgages so now they are paid shouldn't the homeowners got to keep their home and now owe nothing?
Now someone is gonna to sue the banks over all this and that wealth is just going to change hands and still the homeowner citizen is left with nothing again.
WTF
1. Citizen buys home for 300k, gets mortgage with bank
2. Citizen pays for 4 years, shit happens and can't make payment
3. Bank forecloses on home, or puts them into the process, either way the bank didnt get their full 300k on the loan paid back to them.
4. Bank now owns the 300k home
5. Bank goes to government, they need a 300k bailout cause citizen defaulted on their loan
6. Bank gets the said 300k bailout
This confuses me somewhat. Someone sold the home to the original citizen and they got 300k for the purchase of the home. The bank now has a loan set up with the citizen for 300k, but the citizen defaults and the bank now owns their 300k home, but also gets a 300k bailout from the government.
So seller got 300k, citizen homeowner gets shafted to fuck with no home and bad credit score, and the bank gets 300k for free plus retains ownership to a 300k home so thats like 600k they made on nothing. To balance things out, shouldn't the homeowner got to keep their home and $0 owed in their mortgage now? Wasn't the government basically bailing out the default mortgages so now they are paid shouldn't the homeowners got to keep their home and now owe nothing?
Now someone is gonna to sue the banks over all this and that wealth is just going to change hands and still the homeowner citizen is left with nothing again.
WTF
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2sKH8yjVsM]Sunshine lollipops and rainbows - YouTube[/ame]
Ohp! There's another one. It's a twofer today.
Don't mind me. I'm just having a little fun. fwiw, I'm a big fan of logic as a tool in argumentation. Guerilla has a strong grasp of it. There's the connection. But to your point about getting the thread back on track, I agree.
The problem is house values are down in some areas by 50% since the bubble. Banks and the secondary mortrgage note holders(fannie mae/fraddie) are stuck with foreclosures worth less then the original loan amount. In some cases the bank wont foreclosure on a house for a couple years, when they do sell it its worth half the price, plus all the fees during this process, and not one payment is made during this process; they let people live for free for years. Its a big cluster fuck right now.
You didn't call me out on fallacies, you don't understand what they are and made yet another foolish post.
I let you have the last word because you were just going to continue making inane posts if I didn't.
Take your small victory, and savor it. It's my gift to you.
When the bank issues the loan they turn this debt into an investment asset like a mortgage backed security or collateralized debt obligation or whatever. Then when their lovely hedge fund blows up and they lose it all they pull out their naked pictures of congressmen groping children that were taken before elections after private espionage agents drugged them at a DC bar and had their way with them for an evening. They also call their friends at the NYT and WSJ and tell them to blame their fantasy trading game failure on irresponsible homeowners. The Fed buys their blown out securities, the banks go on their merry way, the homeowners lose their homes because they can't keep up with the arm that increased precisely because the zombie bankers failed after they smoked the securities pipe like the crack whores that they are and mismanaged their clients' debt.
Bank gets the house but ends up losing some here and there, usually resells below market value, fees, taxes, blah blah. And they also don't always get full 'market' value for their candy land derivatives that the Fed buys. And if the bank really sucks bad enough that no other zombie bank will buy them then they'll basically be seized by Uncle Sam who has become quite the landlord the past several years.
Since banks lend on the fact they can get 10x the money they have in deposits at the Fed I'd assume if we didn't have anything in place the money supply of the country would shrink my 10x. Getting any loan would be very difficult and the interest rates would be through the roof.
1. Bank Loans $300K to homeowner. Seller gets $300K. Borrower gets $300K home and $300K debt. Bank is owed $300K.
2. Bank sells $300K loan to outside investor but retains servicing (servicing just means they are paid a fee to collect payments)
3. Property decreases in value to $150K, borrower defaults, bank takes back $150K house on behalf of investor that holds the note, borrower has nothing and is out on the streets.
4. Bank sells home, takes $150K loss (actually more due to execution costs but keeping it simple), investor gets the $150K, now bank has nothing, investor has $150K out of orig $300K, and has lost $150K.
The current lawsuit is the investors telling the banks that they warranted the loans as being originated correctly and they were not. In other words the banks made the loans and did not follow the investor's guidelines. As a result the investor gets to recover his lost $150K because he was sold fraudulently originated notes.
The problem with the bailout is that he money was given to the banks without accountability. In fact the form the bank filled out to get TARP money was a one page form easier to complete than any landing page. Literally, 10 lines and you get Billions of dollars. Looked like a fax cover sheet.
The only directly allocated bailout money is for the loans that were purchased by banks as part of the FDIC shared loss agreement. For example with One West Bank owned by Dell & Soro's - this is the deal they got:
1. Bought loans at 70% unpaid balance. $100K loan for $70K.
2. After foreclosure and re-sale of home say they net $50K.
3. They get 80%-95% back from FDIC on the loss not from purchase price but from the original unpaid balance. So if we take the low 80% against the $50K loss ($100K orig - $50K net) they get back a min or $40K.
4. Therefore they get back the $50K net + $40K = $90K on a loan they bought for $70K
The Govt's is covering more than their loss.
But this is only for shared loss agreement situations. Like One West or Chase on WAMU loans.
That is not the true travesty, the true travesty is that you can buy homes from the FDIC for $0.50 on value (a lot less actually but this is an example) if you have $1B. THese are homes where the homeowners could not get a loan mod (all situations but this is a part to whole example) for a reduction to current value and then the bank forecloses, kicks them onto the street, and re-sells for $0.50 to those with $1B. That's the real shame.
There's all kinds of crazy crap going on, I can buy a persons mortgage for $0.60 (less in your state) on value and they owed more than value.
1. Unpaid mortgage balance $100K
2. Home Value $50K
3. Buy Mortgage for $30K. yet they owe you $100K.
It's a crazy market right now I only wish I had more money to invest.
Perhaps I was delusional when I missed your response somehow... But you obviously did ask for it to be closed when you said "Now die thread, die!"
So I guess that one's a draw. But no, I don't want to go back into that clusterfuck of a thread again because no one involved in it could even pick a common reference point to start debating from... It became impossible to even state an opinion in there without getting it pronounced "wrong."
Anyway, there will be another libertarian thread around here at any minute... At least until RP is no longer in the running.
You left out the part where the bank got paid $180k+ in interest heavy payments during the first 6 years before repackaging, the funds they got from repackaging AND get the reduced price house to sell when they're done.
Yeah, I feel bad for the banks. It's not like they made risky loans or even got a single penny from the fed .. they got screwed bad.
And the part about some of the banks and the speculators - investment my ass - being under the same roof so it looks like the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. Poor banks they have it so bad
Please do not misunderstand, I could give a crap about the banks. I think they are a total scam. No argument from me.
Everyone is guilty and played a role in the crises.
I simply want to capitalize on the problem, but for the record I advocate writing down loans etc for homeowners all of the time even in our proposals for recapitalizing regional banks as well as non-performing note disposition.
It is incredible the deals I see and the ways in which it can change peoples lives for the better, if I only had more capital, I could scale up and help more families stay in their homes rather than others getting these notes who simply want to foreclose and evict. I have to get my ass into gear and raise more capital . Anyone got an extra $10MM sitting around?
There would be a lot of very valuable real estate up for grabs here in NYC. That's about it.
Actually, you're all pretty wrong with real estate valuations. I was ALLEGEDLY part of a hedge fund until last year that ALLEGEDLY had a license to acquire REO properties from the banks that had them as negative assets. We ALLEGEDLY purchased them through Fannie and Freddie for, I shit you not, no more than ten cents on the dollar.
I am legally not allowed to disclose the name of the fund, or the investment bank it operated through. It has since ceased to operate under both, but MAY operate under a new name and division, as those negative bank owned assets never really stopped piling up, if anything, it went into hyper drive.
The whole real estate market is a crock of shit. Its all based on perception.
If the peoples believe that the real estate market for that area is worth an avg of $200k per property, then POOF, just like magic, that's what the new avg becomes.
It actually goes a hell of a lot deeper, but I hate to say this, I'm actually not allowed to discuss it in detail until the year 2019. So.. just try to survive until then.
Seriously. "Adapt or die", just like the wise man told the farmers of America. This shit is no joke, and if you don't have the balls or stomach for it, you should not be playing.
I am legally not allowed to disclose the name of the fund, or the investment bank it operated through. It has since ceased to operate under both, but MAY operate under a new name and division, as those negative bank owned assets never really stopped piling up, if anything, it went into hyper drive.
The whole real estate market is a crock of shit. Its all based on perception.
If the peoples believe that the real estate market for that area is worth an avg of $200k per property, then POOF, just like magic, that's what the new avg becomes.
It actually goes a hell of a lot deeper, but I hate to say this, I'm actually not allowed to discuss it in detail until the year 2019. So.. just try to survive until then.
Seriously. "Adapt or die", just like the wise man told the farmers of America. This shit is no joke, and if you don't have the balls or stomach for it, you should not be playing.
The reason he's got "fanboys" is probably because he generally only debates one topic, he knows it pretty well, and his debating style mainly consists of simply making logical assertions regarding economic theory, with few examples sprinkled in here and there. In other words, there's virtually no appeals to emotion or any of the other garbage you see people use all the time, it's just straight facts/logic/theory/facts/logic/theory, etc..
So in order for you to "own" him, you would have had to disprove his assertions using logic, and make your own assertions on economic theory, all the while using facts to back up your position. You didn't even come close to that. Pointing to some mythical thread does nothing for anyone. If you "owned" him in a previous thread, you can "own" him again in this one. What's stopping you?
