Do you believe in Evil?
- Thread starter turbolapp
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I may not have been very clear, let me put it another way-
Every person, no matter how saintly they may be in their day-to-day lives, will commit an act of evil if placed in the right circumstances. When I said that these circumstances cause them to 'value their own goals more than the welfare of others', I'm not implying that you must always put others before yourself, that would be preposterous. Perhaps I should have worded it better.
I'm saying that these evil-inducing circumstances make the (personal goals : welfare of others) ratio too extreme- the goal becomes far too important to the point of obsession and everything becomes expendable to achieve it. Every act of evil is rationalized- there is a goal to be achieved. Even in the case of psychopaths/random murders, the goal is still rational (or perceived to be rational), a thirst must be quenched. Something must be gained, whether tangible or not, and sometimes you have to be evil to get it.
The point I'm driving at is that evil is a means to an end, the point at which a person loses control of their motivation/urges and moral values become secondary to them. Using it as a general personality trait is too broad and doesn't do the subject credit. It's the same as saying a person is 'good'. No one is good or evil, we are just too complex for that.
^Way too verbose, but whatever.
Well said. I've often acknowledged that the really religious people are very happy. I just didn't know what to do about that (It's not like I can make myself believe in something I just don't) but I think my biggest struggle has always been when everything I was taught fell away because I rejected it, I failed to replace it immediately with something sturdy enough to build on again. Where as everyone else is just chugging happily along in their black and white world. While I wouldn't trade places with them for anything, I have to admit I do envy them a bit for that.
Not really well said. I think your question was simply "Does an absolute universal evil exist?" or "Does evil exist outside of our thoughts and feelings?" (not just how your personal tummy feels about something). Your feelings should have nothing to do with it. Existence of something is completely independent of how you feel about that something. In fact, if you feel happy about some belief then you should question your belief much more because of our natural inclination to believe whatever makes us happiest and to deny things that make us unhappy. I think you probably already know this.
The societal/social side-effect of believing in something has absolutely nothing to do with whether something actually exists or not. Yes, believing or not believing may have beneficial effects on some or all people but that still has absolutely nothing to do with whether something exists or not. This is true unless you want to completely redefine the word "Evil" like Ayn Rand has done. Philosophers do that shit constantly. Rand would probably tell you that something that impacts most humans negatively is "Absolute Evil" and "Universally Wrong". But to me, and many others, Evil and Wrong are just human mental constructs and the universe exists separate from human constructs - so they don't really exist outside of our heads.
Anyway, the question is "Do you want to accept reality/universe in it's raw form even though it could lead to a scary or miserable life?". None of us can completely do that, but at the very least we should hopefully understand which beliefs we're emotionally invested in and scrutinize those ones much much more.
Language is a big problem with these philosophical discussions and it's used wrong and abused constantly.
If your question was "How can I find happiness in a morally grey existence, where there is no universal right, wrong, or meaning - and it all ends with me being erased from existence?" then let me know if you ever find an answer to that - I'm seriously interested. Even if there is just one thought about this shit, that is both true and makes you happy - then let me know.
Sorry for the long rant.
tl;dr - The impacts of belief in something has no effect of whether that something actually exists or not. Moral Subjectivity FTW! There are no universal morals, rights, or wrongs. There is only empathy, laws, and consequences.
Yes, since I can't seem to shake the idea that "Evil" is equated with a supernatural force.
Really?? Cuz I equate "evil" with "worse than standard bad behavior". In other words, stealing steaks from Kroger's is bad behavior. Burning Jews in ovens is evil. They aren't comparable in my opinion, I guess it's a matter of scale. They're pretty different behaviors, using the same terminology doesn't quite convey that.
This.
Evil is really just a broad concept that is perceived differently by everyone. So it has no fixed or actual reality. Is killing an animal evil? Is torturing an insect evil? Who can say? But some will interpret those acts as evil and some won't.
I know what you're saying, but I feel like we're doing a disservice when we make him out to be bigger than he was. If we're saying he was evil then we're saying he was of something demonic, instead of just a really bad man.
I really don't think it's a stretch at all to say that many people are under demonic influence. It doesn't make the person influenced supernatural.
Look at what we accept as fact that influences people, like media(TV and music), video games, drugs and alcohol. People don't become these entities but allow themselves to be changed by them.
I agree with what's said above.
That it's just as easy to believe in "Evil" if you have any belief in the concept of "Good."
I think there is much more to the Good / Evil, Black / White etc. Hard to explain, but I think it's all about energies and projections. Sounds like hippy bullshit, but it's what I think.
[hippy babbling out of my ass]
Negative shit happens in this world, but what is this world? It's just a bunch of fractals. We are merely flesh and bone projections of the tiniest bit of the infinite universe.
This is gonna sound far fetched, but I think both acts of good and evil, of any proportion that has ever happened on Earth has already been played out in an infinite amount of universes, and that we as a collective consciousness play either big roles or small roles depending on our spiritual energy, we either do "bad" shit, or do "good" shit or just "shit" in general. We are all divine beings serving an unknown purpose.
It's just a matter of riding the spiral and accepting that we are part of an equation and no matter what you do, you will always be loved or at least respected by the universe.
[/hippy babbling out of my ass]
That it's just as easy to believe in "Evil" if you have any belief in the concept of "Good."
I think there is much more to the Good / Evil, Black / White etc. Hard to explain, but I think it's all about energies and projections. Sounds like hippy bullshit, but it's what I think.
[hippy babbling out of my ass]
Negative shit happens in this world, but what is this world? It's just a bunch of fractals. We are merely flesh and bone projections of the tiniest bit of the infinite universe.
This is gonna sound far fetched, but I think both acts of good and evil, of any proportion that has ever happened on Earth has already been played out in an infinite amount of universes, and that we as a collective consciousness play either big roles or small roles depending on our spiritual energy, we either do "bad" shit, or do "good" shit or just "shit" in general. We are all divine beings serving an unknown purpose.
It's just a matter of riding the spiral and accepting that we are part of an equation and no matter what you do, you will always be loved or at least respected by the universe.
[/hippy babbling out of my ass]
IMO there is only "good" and "bad" shit.. there isn't a neutral in positive and negative energies. In fact, neutral would classify as bad/negative. Yin yang. Dark and light. There is no lukewarm.
Only my opinion of course, and no more valid than your's.
Human mind is a difficult matter. I don't know if evil is supernatural or not but bad people emit bad waves or bad energy whatever you want to call, it's something we can't explain today maybe science will do next years.
Why complicate things so much? It all comes down to pain and suffering.
Ordinary, non-"evil" people have the ability to (and do) cause pain and suffering to other people but do not inherently enjoy it - e.g. killing an armed burglar or stealing because you live in a third-world country and truly have no other way to feed your children. Even if someone wrongs them, they'd rather let it go to focus their energies on their own happiness - most people just don't give a shit about revenge as much as finding (benevolent) happiness in life.
"Evil" people on the other hand cause pain and suffering to other people for the sake of it - they'd do it even if there was nothing else to gain (in fact they usually invest a great deal of time and effort into it) - they enjoy it. Starvation wasn't quite the reason Jeffrey Dahmer murdered and ate his victims.
Ordinary, non-"evil" people have the ability to (and do) cause pain and suffering to other people but do not inherently enjoy it - e.g. killing an armed burglar or stealing because you live in a third-world country and truly have no other way to feed your children. Even if someone wrongs them, they'd rather let it go to focus their energies on their own happiness - most people just don't give a shit about revenge as much as finding (benevolent) happiness in life.
"Evil" people on the other hand cause pain and suffering to other people for the sake of it - they'd do it even if there was nothing else to gain (in fact they usually invest a great deal of time and effort into it) - they enjoy it. Starvation wasn't quite the reason Jeffrey Dahmer murdered and ate his victims.
John Stuart Mill said:
That being said, the real question is, do you want what they have? If so, then great, believe what they believe. Split testing isn't just for the internets. Decide what results you want and then believe whatever gets you there. The whole "I can't believe something that isn't true" can be a sticky point for a while, but it's not like any of our beliefs are really true. They're just our best guesses given our knowledge and experience.
What about a hired hit man? Is he evil? He's not doing it for pleasure (theoretically).