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[lukep]

LukeP , how about a friendly wager on altcoins.

0.5btc that by the close of 2015 Altcoins will still be alive and well.

I don't believe that you'll be able to afford a half bitcoin by the end of 2015. Perhaps if we use a trustworthy escrow upfront.

Think about it though; it's obvious that they're gonners:

1. Mining rigs that don't use ASICs will never be able to hash much more than they do right now. It's true the they could make ASIC for scrypt, but what incentive would manufacturers have to produce many of those if the price of one never rises like bitcoins did?

2. Since they can't mine faster, their market will look smaller and smaller and smaller compared to bitcoin mining, which will hit 100 PH next year, and whatever hash comes after Petas next year too.... Altcoins? Still stuck in the gigahashes.

3. The other uses for the blockchain are starting to come online already, including storing rights to corporations, legal documents, deeds, DNS addresses, copyrights, avatars that have responsibility, anything you want notarized at all, even Autonomous corporations, (!) all stored on the one blockchain that can withstand attack from anyone. (By then)

4. By the end of next year I expect for the common person to have heard of some of these awesome advancements and start to see more value in the worlds most powerful distributed ledger than JUST something that holds all their money trustlessly.

5. What will the 50,000 altcoins that will exist next year be needed for? Their cute little blockchains serve none of these purposes, because if you tried for one to, no business would trust that your altcoin couldn't be 51% attacked, and therefore would not store their important documents on your chain.

More hashing power = More defense from invasion

Check out this page if you want to know where the bitcoin network's hashing power ranks against the entire military budget of the rest of the world: Coinometrics - BRIX

Of course you can't simply trade that kind of money for equal hashing power anymore... It takes time to create such a factory that would be needed and therefore the new hashing totals for bitcoin's network when completed would be far higher still... Very hard to catch; but you get the point. It's a military funding issue, not just a wastefulness of some miners' profit boxes issue.

I'm pretty sure fatbat is a proponent of most things bitcoin based on his other posts I've read. Considering alternative benefits isn't the same as bashing... My point is: Only good (for humanity and bitcoins) can come out of converting waste into something of value to someone.

Sure, no contest on that... Right now my mining rig is the only thing heating this apartment.

 

[wayn3]

Btw. If you really needed q factory 100x as large, it would be about four times as wide. Because "basic math"

Exa is what comes after peta.

Anyone else notice how Lukes words sound increasingly religious?

Those fuckometrics numbers are a load of bullshit and to bring some major antitrust action into bitcoin, all you need to do is Fuck a major wallet service. You don't need to 51 percent shit. Discredit a single person. Threaten his family. You think secret services don't have their ways. You just want to believe. So cute. This is all make believe. Have your delusion and eat it too. If bitcoin succeeds its because of the us government. Not in spite of it.

 

[(O_o)]

So are you saying the US government is going to use the SS//DoJ//NSA to threaten a major US Bitcoin service to shutdown in order to get rid of bitcoin?

Lol nah bro

 

[jacky8]

I've been wondering.. Some government can launch a coin with 100% human POW system where hourly "income" is equal to the minimum hourly wage.

Need citizen ID in order to mine
Coin supply adjusted by the government as they please
All records stored in a centralized location (no 51% attacks)
Secure but non-anonymous transactions

 

[wayn3]

So are you saying the US government is going to use the SS//DoJ//NSA to threaten a major US Bitcoin service to shutdown in order to get rid of bitcoin?

Lol nah bro

In Lukes world, bitcon threatens the power monopoly of the government. In such a world, they probably would.

They do not because it's a Fuckin non factor.

Trolling him wouldn't even be fun because he's such an obvious spineless opportunistic fraud. Latches onto some idea that seems controversial to his feeble mind.

He gets booted from adsense because he runs a couple thousand crappy mfa sites and takes that as a clue for the entire us economy being done. Scientific method at work.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

In Lukes world, bitcon threatens the power monopoly of the government. In such a world, they probably would.

They do not because it's a Fuckin non factor.

Non-factor? Bullshit. What we're currently seeing is co-ordinated government attacks against Bitcoin. This isn't individual governments working seperately, coming to their own conclusions. This is memos being passed around to member states of the IMF, G20, etc.

 

[wayn3]

Except you don't see them but that's only because They Are way too incompetent to actually execute an "attack". Just look at that website lulz.

Don't you ever try to sneak up my ass again, though. Puke inducing.

 

[schockergd]

Scrypt ASICs are being released Q2 2014.

 

[wayn3]

Scrypt ASICs are being released Q2 2014.

Lies.

 

[Napolean]

ok so 30 posts later I'm fairly sure this thread is in fact not about trading processing time for cheap wine?

 

[Fatbat]

I have a friend working on a bitcoin project who is as much a zealot as Luke. Bitcoin is the only true coin, the originator that can't ever be bettered, mankind's financial savior, oh, and all altcoins are bullshit.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, man, but you did write it down in a public place and are arguing for it here so just be prepared to be laughed at in a few years time when everyone will compare you to a complainer-of-progress in 1900.

I'm not too worried about being laughed at. It's happened before, I'm sure it will happen again. I'm not so sure you can take it on the chin quite so easily.

These uses are truly pathetic compared to what's going on with the bitcoin blockchain now. I'll stick with Satoshi's plan, thanks.

Researching cures for cancer, AIDS, and other diseases, solving complex physics equations, mapping the Milky Way, or looking for the origins of our universe are pathetic in comparison to Bitcoins? Oh, OK then.

If you don't see the benefit yet that's one thing... But how does miner usage of electricity detriment "many?".

You do know where electricity comes from right? In almost all instances its production has a negative impact on the environment. Currently this is only benefiting a tiny tiny number of people while affecting everyone else in the world negatively. It's not hard to understand.

 

[Napolean]

SETI@home

 

[lukep]

I've been wondering.. Some government can launch a coin with 100% human POW system where hourly "income" is equal to the minimum hourly wage.

Need citizen ID in order to mine
Coin supply adjusted by the government as they please
All records stored in a centralized location (no 51% attacks)
Secure but non-anonymous transactions

Who'd want to mine it? Sounds awful.

Satoshi's true genius was seeing not just the immediate incentives his system needed to offer... But the ones many years down the road, too.

Scrypt ASICs are being released Q2 2014.

Yeah, that's not going to end well.

If merchants were adopting litecoin at the same advanced pace then a race would be afoot... But they simply aren't doing so.

The price of bitcoin rose as BOTH supply and demand for them rose together... Asics for Scrypt is just going to raise the supply, but not the demand at all. :love-smiley-086:

I have a friend working on a bitcoin project who is as much a zealot as Luke. Bitcoin is the only true coin, the originator that can't ever be bettered, mankind's financial savior, oh, and all altcoins are bullshit.

Hey, if Litecoin or some other altcoin were first, I'd be zealoting on that one instead... This is all about network effects and the power of the invincibility of the biggest blockchain.

You're a smart guy... Can't you see that there must only be one large chain, or the other would be a threat to it? The miners know this well, and it's the miners who have the most to lose from making decisions that don't grow the one biggest chain.

Researching cures for cancer, AIDS, and other diseases, solving complex physics equations, mapping the Milky Way, or looking for the origins of our universe are pathetic in comparison to Bitcoins? Oh, OK then.

Not the bitcoins themselves... Those are just the first app we'll all be using from the blockchain. There will be many, many more.

Imagine for a moment that everyone on the planet had a particular ipad. Every last person could write whatever they wanted to on this ipad, as much or as little as they wanted, and everyone else Instantly saw it. This ipad would never crash, could never be deleted, and no one could ever edit it even just a single character on, forever. Not even presidents and emporers. Not even with nuclear weapons.

This "ultimate blackboard of truth" is what the blockchain offers before you ever make a single application on it.

Now imagine that a guy named satoshi stumbled upon it and used it as a ledger system to pass money around on. (The 1st app.) He happened to be smart enough to know that if you make money the 1st application, then it is incentivizing itself to grow stronger, faster, bigger, better, and even fund more Apps onto itself.

There will be infinite apps that can use an ultimate blackboard of truth. Cures for cancer will be DAMN EASY on such a medium because right now they are allllll being attempted on a regulated blackboard of misinformation and misdirection.

Any and every application imaginable, and many we can't imagine yet, will all live in the one, most powerful blockchain one day. If they don't move to the blockchain, then they're simply not as good and useful as they could be.

You do know where electricity comes from right? In almost all instances its production has a negative impact on the environment. Currently this is only benefiting a tiny tiny number of people while affecting everyone else in the world negatively. It's not hard to understand.

1. It benefits us all by having these awesome & invincible apps to use.
2. Anyone can get in on the game as long as the price keeps adding another 0 to the end each year like it always has.
3. So far humanity can convert less than 1% of the sunlight that hits the ground here... I'm sure with blockchain-based apps we'll notch that percentage up a good bit.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

Et tu, Matt?

I don't know anyone on WF with more bitcoin business going on than you... How the fuck can you not be up to speed on the ramifications of what an impervious blockchain is going to do to humanity?

A blockchain doesn't matter if by using it you're taking the chance of getting raided, and thrown in prison. What good is the blockchain if 98% of the populous is too scared to use it, because the govt passed laws against it? It's outright illegal in India, banks in China can't deal in it, etc.

You're right though, I have a lot riding on bitcoin, and the past 6 months of my life has been 100% bitcoin. If I'm right, and it becomes a mainstream payment medium, there's a good chance I'll become a multi-millionaire, as I'll already have myself embedded enough in the industry. If I'm wrong, I go back to being just another asshole developer. For the past ~6 months though, it's provided me with a very comfortable, worry free life, so what the hell.

I do believe the demand for a payment medium like this is there though, but whether or not it's allowed to materialize is another story. People are sick and tired of dealing with companies like PayPal. Not only do you have to put up with their bullshit, you also have to pay them 3%+ to do so.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

PS. Luke, you should probably quit treating the blockchain as some holy grail of humanity. Do you have any idea of how sloppy and inefficient it looks to any decent developer? I could just imagine what the COBOL developers in New York who work for actual financial institutions think about it.

 

[wayn3]

I believe he just claimed that cancer is only not cured because the powers that be try to prevent that from happening. Never seen a paper, knows everything about science.

As soon as the blockchain gains sentience, hooray.

Poor guy never watched Any Movies. When the chain outgrows its makers, they'll be the first to die.

 

[mattseh]

PS. Luke, you should probably quit treating the blockchain as some holy grail of humanity. Do you have any idea of how sloppy and inefficient it looks to any decent developer? I could just imagine what the COBOL developers in New York who work for actual financial institutions think about it.

What is the alternative? Feel free to take some time to ask some decent developers.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

What is the alternative? Feel free to take some time to ask some decent developers.

Although this is against what bitcoiners want, at some point in the future, there's going to need to be more centralization. You can't just require every user to download the entire blockchain. In a couple years from now, that thing is probably going to be 1TB in size. It's going to have to have more of a master / child relationship, similar to DNS for example.

Better communication within the blockchain is required. I guess with bitcoind v0.9 we'll be allowed to embed up to 80 bytes of data with a transaction, so that's definitely a help.

The entire address protocol will have to change if this is going to become a mainstream payment medium. People want to send funds to an e-mail address, not some BASE58 string.

And other. I don't know, I've been in a shitty mood the past couple days.

 

[mattseh]

Kiopa, check out "Simplified Payment Verification" (in the original bitcoin.pdf as well as generally).

Edit: I'll just screenshot, it's short.

I don't see how a base-58 string is conceptually different from a credit card number or bank account wire info.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

^^ Right, I'll get my sister-in-law on Skype later today, and explain to her how due to the ability of obtaining the Merkle branch, her worries or switching payment mediums to bitcoin are over. I'll get right on that.

PS. Sorry, again, I'm in a shitty mood. Don't take anything I say personally.

PPS. As it stands right now, if I download bitcoind, I end up downloading the entire blockchain. It's fine for now, but it won't be in a couple years. Later on, I'm going to have to pay for an extra couple HDs on the server, just so I can store the blockchain, and accept bitcoin.