Federal Government Takes Final Step to Suspend Constitution

For those who's looking to move away from the US, might find this article interesting:

Should you leave the USA before the collapse? Words of wisdom from someone who tried

Interesting read. Although, a number of the points he makes can actually argue the other way, particularly if you have a decent amount of cash.

Like the corruption issue - if you live where the police are for rent you can rent them, too. It can be made to work for you, not against you.

His time line for getting things done is long due in part to lengthy permit processes, which don't exist some places. He gives the example of having a well dug. Where I live I can have them drilling tomorrow.

And I think it is silly that people argue that well-armed citizens stand a chance against a military force. Unorganized band of Texas cowboys against trained soldiers with heavy weapons? Yeah, right.

The only strong points he makes are about not sticking out and blending in, which is easier to do in a your home country.
 


So basically, you didn't read it.
Ok, fair point then... I'll get around to it after the current bot is done... Long read that.

Although, a number of the points he makes can actually argue the other way, particularly if you have a decent amount of cash.

Like the corruption issue - if you live where the police are for rent you can rent them, too. It can be made to work for you, not against you.
Yeah when I read that bit I thought about how I PREFER the high level of corruption in the police force in Thailand... Because they are predictably corrupted, which just makes it a different system there. They don't get as evil and power hungry as our cops here do that way... They seem to be happy just skimming a little off the top each day but strict rules in Thailand keep them from going too far.

Once you're used to it it's a far superior system to ours... One can feel safer in that system than in this one.


And I think it is silly that people argue that well-armed citizens stand a chance against a military force. Unorganized band of Texas cowboys against trained soldiers with heavy weapons? Yeah, right.
His scenarios always fall back to the fall of civilization... A totally different thing that a full-on police state like where we are headed. When Big Brother Palpatine finally does have 100% control it will be very different. There simply is no good option but to GET THE FUCK OUT... Sure it's a global issue but at least you can be 11 Thousand miles from the worst of it!


The only strong points he makes are about not sticking out and blending in, which is easier to do in a your home country.
Agreed. But a lack of that seems to be a small price to pay for the rest. So, still feel like a walking ATM?
 
For those who's looking to move away from the US, might find this article interesting:

Should you leave the USA before the collapse? Words of wisdom from someone who tried

This guy is paranoid to the max. What he's describing is a doomsday scenario.

Oh, and I like how he compares the US to South American countries. How about comparing the US to Canada, Australia, or France instead.

Every time someone wants to make it seem like this is the place to be, you can bet they're gonna stack up America to either Mexico, the worst places in South America, or the Middle East.
 
HHH is one of my favorite people. JakeStratham is fond of him too.

I hope to meet up with him in Turkey one of these years.

I can assume that you guys aren't talking about wrestler Hunter Hurst Helmsley. I like much of Hoppe's writings I have seen, but this quote baffles me :


"Likewise, in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin, there can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. They — the advocates of alternative, non-family and kin-centered lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism — will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order."


A guy who lives alone and hedonistically masturbates all day, a nun who isn't going to have kids, a gay pagan couple, - as long as all these people practice the non-aggression principle, I see no way that they are threatening anyone's family or preventing a "libertarian order" from being maintained.

Cigarettes pose a greater danger to families than most of the things he listed. Would cigarette smokers also have to be physically removed from this hypothetical society?
 
Here's some clarification:

Related to this controversy were some comments by Hoppe in his 2001 book Democracy: The God That Failed about discrimination against certain people by private "covenant" communities in a free society. Over the years Hoppe's critics—most of them, sadly, libertarians—have uncharitably accused Hoppe of homophobia, bigotry, and the like, based on these passages. In particular, on p. 218, Hoppe writes:

There can be no tolerance toward democrats and communists in a libertarian social order. They will have to be physically separated and expelled from society. Likewise, in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin, there can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. They--the advocates of alternative, non-family and kin-centred lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism--will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order.

In his followup article, My Battle with the Thought Police, he elaborated:

In my book Democracy, The God That Failed I not only defend the right to discrimination as implied in the right to private property, but I also emphasize the necessity of discrimination in maintaining a free society and explain its importance as a civilizing factor. In particular, the book also contains a few sentences about the importance, under clearly stated circumstances, of discriminating against communists, democrats, and habitual advocates of alternative, non-family centered lifestyles, including homosexuals.

For instance, on p. 218, I wrote "in a covenant concluded among proprietors and community tenants for the purpose of protecting their private property, …no one is permitted to advocate ideas contrary to the very purpose of the covenant ... such as democracy and communism." "Likewise, in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin, there can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. … (violators) will have to be physically removed from society."

In its proper context these statements are hardly more offensive than saying that the Catholic Church should excommunicate those violating its fundamental precepts or that a nudist colony should expel those insisting on wearing bathing suits. However, if you take the statements out of context and omit the condition: in a covenant… then they appear to advocate a rights violation.

Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles « LewRockwell.com Blog
 
HHH is one of my favorite people. JakeStratham is fond of him too.

I hope to meet up with him in Turkey one of these years.

He's an approachable guy and enjoys drinking with fellow travelers. He can be 3 sheets to the wind and still out argue just about anyone. You guys should definitely make it down there or to one of the Mises events he's at some day if you can.
 
His scenarios always fall back to the fall of civilization... A totally different thing that a full-on police state like where we are headed. When Big Brother Palpatine finally does have 100% control it will be very different. There simply is no good option but to GET THE FUCK OUT... Sure it's a global issue but at least you can be 11 Thousand miles from the worst of it!



THIS X 10000000,0000000bazillion
 
hmmm where to? Phillipines, Thailand, Costa Rica, and Uruguay are all on my short list.

I live in Costa Rica. It's a great place to be, however cost of living is equal if not more than in the states. Yes some things are cheaper but some things are more, average it out and it's cheaper to live in the states. On top of that they have this idea to pass a new law to tax world and global income.

Uruguay is nice a friend just moved there. HOWEVER the cold got to him which leads me to my next comment below.

Consider southern Brazil. Close to Uruguay but not as sleepy. Better beaches, too.

Yes sir! This seems to be THE place to go. The city there is called Florinopolis. Very low crime, safe, friendly, etc. Don't expect to have a flashy car or lavish lifestyle but you'll enjoy life and 15 degrees Celsius is about as low as it gets. Also the beaches as suggested are amazing. I'll be heading down there next year to visit my buddy who moved there. Same guy moved from Costa Rica to Uruguay to Florinopolis.

If you really want to get away from the US think Venezuela & North Korea! However you know those places aren't very safe. Tons of Venezuelans are moving to Costa Rica from Venezuela sure tells you a lot.

Also Chile is a power house in South America but fuck those earthquakes!!!!

If I could personally live anywhere else, I would actually choose Medellin, Colombia. Fuck what an awesome city. To bad they have so many civil issues there with the gorilla groups. Maybe one day when it cleans up.

I also have a kid so that plays a HUGE roll in where I'll live now. 5 years ago I would have moved almost anywhere in south america including Colombia.
 
Funny you mentioned the cold in Uruguay. Years ago, I was in Montevideo. It was so cold and humid, the chill went down to my bones.

If you head to Floripa, make sure to check out Praia Mole.
 
Funny you mentioned the cold in Uruguay. Years ago, I was in Montevideo. It was so cold and humid, the chill went down to my bones.

If you head to Floripa, make sure to check out Praia Mole.

I remember talking to my buddy on skype. I swear his jaws were chattering. Said it's just as bad if not worse than Vancouver, BC.

There is no "IF" !!! My buddy still has his place here and is selling it but has some high end home theater stuff he wants to take down to his new place in Flori. Offered to fly me down if i'd pack up his HD projector. How can you say no to an offer like that :)
 
Here's some clarification:

Some of that looks like damage control backtracking spin. He used the word "society" multiple times on the page where that quote is from. When someone tells me about physically removing people from "society" I'm not thinking about people being kicked out of churches or nudist camps.

If someone tells me they think all church computers should block access to wickedfire, then I will understand where they are coming from, but if they instead tell me they want to remove wickedfire from society to maintain libertarian order, I will get a completely different impression.

A quick google search shows me that there are some relatively well known openly gay libertarians, some who have writings on lewrockwell.com, etc. These are people that in theory may end up being part of the Seasteading Institute (a private covenant community).
 
I remember talking to my buddy on skype. I swear his jaws were chattering. Said it's just as bad if not worse than Vancouver, BC.
He's a wimp. Vancouver is the least cold part of Canada. Yes, it's a wet cold, but still, it's not Edmonton in January, with -46C temps.

Some of that looks like damage control backtracking spin.
Hoppe doesn't walk back his statements. He'll admit when he believes he is wrong, he won't dither about.
 
Wow!! All I could think of watching that video was the word wow. So glad I'm not American when shit like this has a chance of going down. Seriously screwed up clusterfuck.

On another note, I'm curious as to why Australia never gets mentioned in the alternative to living in America. Place has fucking everything.