Healthcare bill increases self employment tax, adds new 3.8% tax to new gains

I dare those assholes to pass this shit.
I won't even say what I'll do to the poor fool the IRS sends to my house for a 'health care tax audit'
"Clinging to our guns" Mr Obama? Hell yeah we are - seems we have good reason to as well.
 


Man this is some fucking bullshit! How does it make sense to apply a fucking payroll tax to interest dividends and capital gains.
 
Moxie said:
I doubt more than 20% of Americans pay enough attention to really be "vehemently" for or against most bills.
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You're right, this represents the perspective of the Dems right now. The people are too stupid to care whether a colossus of a law is illegally passed through or not, and will not take it out on the Dems in November.

That theory's worked great for them so far in Virginia, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. But hey, whatever that thug Obama has to say to the morons in order to con them into passing this travesty. Keep sippin the Kool-Aid, keep rationalizing illegal and criminal actions, and keep ramming socialism down the throats of the American people. If you're truly so stupid you believe their garbage, you'll never even see the revolt coming.
 
JohnCJackson said:
Plus this part makes absolutely no fucking sense, assuming controlling costs is a consideration at all. Mandating some people buy something whether they want it or not
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Well, that's simple. I'll put it to you guys like this, imagine if we could lobby congress to mandate that everyone buy an annual supply of Acai from us; we all get in a big proverbial room to put price fixing into play and we're the only ones licensed to sell it.

Getting the picture? :music06:
 
hellblazer said:
You're right, this represents the perspective of the Dems right now. The people are too stupid to care whether a colossus of a law is illegally passed through or not, and will not take it out on the Dems in November.

That theory's worked great for them so far in Virginia, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. But hey, whatever that thug Obama has to say to the morons in order to con them into passing this travesty. Keep sippin the Kool-Aid, keep rationalizing illegal and criminal actions, and keep ramming socialism down the throats of the American people. If you're truly so stupid you believe their garbage, you'll never even see the revolt coming.
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Half of Americans don't vote. The "vehemently" opposed voters are mostly those that weren't going to vote Democrat to begin with, then after that it's the "hippies" that want a bigger overhaul of the system.

Weren't you the one who said they had been on the Massachusetts income-based government health care? I'm not very familiar with their system. Do they force people to freeload whether they want to or not?

:food-smiley-010:
 
Why are most Americans on wickedfire so adamantly opposed to helping your fellow countrymen in their time of need? And on yet another point, why do you think that private companies would be screwing you any less than a government run healthcare system?
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I'm not opposed to helping people.

But I fail to see how nationalizing health care helps anyone. Nearly everything the government does is done very poorly. Look at the DMV, the postal service, government schools, the Iraq war, farm subsidies, highways, etc.

My health is far too important for me to entrust it to government bureaucrats.


Trademark said:
That depends. If the goal of the Congress involves looting the public or gaining favor with special interests, this is a logical way to do it.
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quoted for emphasis
 
papajohn56 said:
FOXNews.com - Health Bill Extends Wage Tax to Investments

"For the first time, the Medicare payroll tax would be applied to investment income, beginning in 2013. A new 3.8 percent tax would be imposed on interest, dividends, capital gains and other investment income for individuals making more than $200,000 a year and couples making more than $250,000."
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Increases self employment tax? Where do you see that in the article? The tax increase is on capital gains.

Basically, 2011 capital gains for most tax brackets (except for the lowest one, which probably doesn't see any capital gains anyway...) is increasing from 15% to 20% due to the expiration of the Bush 2003 tax cuts. The top bracket (or top 2, not sure exactly) will go up to 23.8% capital gains tax, instead of 20%, which capital gains were taxed at prior.

Investment income tax is not self employment tax. This specific change has no effect on self employment tax on 1099 income - Just on capital gains.

And before anyone accuses me of claiming this isn't a tax increase, this is a tax increase - Just clarifying WHAT the tax increase is on.
 
Bring on the flat tax...the only thing I ever liked about Steven Forbes and Ross Perot. It would only increase taxes for a small portion of the population if it was sent at 18% or whatever was proposed.

We are so behind the time and eight ball, it's never going to get right, IMHO.
 
Moxie said:
Half of Americans don't vote. The "vehemently" opposed voters are mostly those that weren't going to vote Democrat to begin with, then after that it's the "hippies" that want a bigger overhaul of the system.

Weren't you the one who said they had been on the Massachusetts income-based government health care? I'm not very familiar with their system. Do they force people to freeload whether they want to or not?

:food-smiley-010:
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The Massachusetts system is bankrupt. Perhaps you heard the Treasurer in our state predict that if our system is instituted on a nationwide scale, the country will go bankrupt in 4 years? Perhaps they've already inoculated you against this truth with more propaganda, but there's only so long you can delude yourself.

Our healthcare system has already been bankrupt, but it's been getting propped up by overly generous reimbursements because they can't have the flagship fail. If Mass. is the pilot program, how does it look if the pilot program is a stunning failure?

Community hospitals are suing the state because they're going bankrupt because of the HUGE influx of poor people. It's simply not a viable economic model. I don't mind that you people have bleeding hearts, but you simply don't understand basic economics. It doesn't work.

Even if I set aside the blatant power-grab, the corruption, the thievery, and the dangerous precedent, it simply doesn't work. Massachusetts is a testament to that.
 
CPAPIMP said:
Bring on the flat tax...the only thing I ever liked about Steven Forbes and Ross Perot. It would only increase taxes for a small portion of the population if it was sent at 18% or whatever was proposed
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The solution is not a flat tax. Establishing a flat tax ignores the deeper issues.

The solution is to first realize that central planning never works. First, central planning is predicated on knowing how millions of individuals will make decisions. The state cannot know this. Thus, any attempts to plan a society based on this knowledge will fail.

Second, central planning requires taxes. The problem is, taxes siphon capital from productive sectors and jam that capital into unproductive sectors. If this were not so, the funds representing taxes would move toward the same end without the need for coercive force.

Third, central planning requires a central bank. Central banks debase the currency by inflating it. Doing so lowers interest rates, which creates havoc in the markets and encourages malinvestment. Entrepreneurs, fooled by artificial market signals, take risks based on bad data. This is the boom-bust cycle. The central bank creates this phenomenon.

The solution is to dismantle the central planning apparatus known as the state. The populace needs to reject any piece of legislation that infringes (in even the slightest way) upon the following three things...

1. voluntary contracts
2. a commodity-based currency that cannot be arbitrarily inflated
3. private property

The simplicity of a flat tax sounds good on the surface. But it perpetuates the system of looting.
 
johu said:
Increases self employment tax? Where do you see that in the article? The tax increase is on capital gains.
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"The bill also would increase the Medicare payroll tax by 0.9 percentage point to 2.35 percent on wages above $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for married couples filing jointly."

If you're above 200k, you're hit with a .9% increase in the medicare payroll tax, which is part of self employment
 
Trademark said:
The solution is to dismantle the central planning apparatus known as the state. The populace needs to reject any piece of legislation that infringes (in even the slightest way) upon the following three things...

(...)
3. private property
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So, just a question here, are you advocating turning all public property private? Because I wonder then, what happens when:

All roads are private.

All land is private.

Property owners may charge a toll or rent to pass their property, or may forbid passing altogether.

Property owners may legally kill trespassers.


If you have no land and no money, what do you do? You cannot legally occupy any space without the consent of the owner, nor can you traverse any space without the consent of the owner. If the property owner requires payment, and you cannot provide it, and leaving the property would only bring you to another private property, you are at the total mercy of the landowners. A landowner could conceivably purchase a ring of property, which he could allow people to pass into freely, yet deny exit from, or charge an exorbitant toll for passage. He could then offer you a chance to work for him, inside his ring, in exchange for food, water, and shelter. You would either take his offer, or die. You would be, in effect, a slave. Free in theory, but a slave in any practical sense.

It's a bit of an extreme scenario, but it's not too far off from what exists in some places, and what would undoubtedly exist much more were it not for the state and the existence of public property.
 
hellblazer said:
The Massachusetts system is bankrupt. Perhaps you heard the Treasurer in our state predict that if our system is instituted on a nationwide scale, the country will go bankrupt in 4 years? Perhaps they've already inoculated you against this truth with more propaganda, but there's only so long you can delude yourself.
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In that article it does say that the "president of the business-backed Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation" disagrees with the Treasurer.

Also, according to Scott "socialist?" Brown and Mitt "bleeding heart?" Romney the financial problems were because Governor Patrick eliminated a cost and quality commission, not because of the actual health care system as it was when they passed it.
 
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