Looks like America WILL have National Health Care after tonight

Some of you sound like a bunch of old codgers grumbling about change. This bill is long overdue, and had reforms been put in place years ago we would have saved billions by now.

There are many members here living in foreign countries, and for the most part they are happy with the health care they receive that is partially or completely government run. I haven't noticed too much grousing at the cost because it's probably cheaper for them over all.

A lot of the rants are just Republican talking points and don't reflect what's really in the bill. Once this is passed you can get back to your business, and forget all about this. And you will never need to worry that the health insurance you're paying for now will be canceled on you if you get sick. Isn't that worth something?

So let me get this straight, you think the government is going to somehow, for the first time ever, not only stay on budget but SAVE MONEY? What?

Show me another government program which has saved the tax payers money. Show me. Hell, show me a government program that has even stayed on budget and I'll be impressed.

Lol, you're fucking delusional if you think this is going to be a success or a money saver. Then again, you're probably one of the HOPE & CHANGE chanters so I'd expect nothing less than for you to buy into this shit.

What's really going to happen? This shit is going to go WAY over budget and they are going to start rationing care and having stupid wait times like they do in Canada. Will it be better? Depends, the homeless, junkies, and illegal immigrants will certainly be better off. Business owners and people who actually pay taxes are going to get fucked like usual. But then, that's what we've come to expect from the democrats. Up is down and down is up, white is black and black is white.

God damn I'm sick of this fucking country, what a fucking dive America has taken in a short 15 years. At this rate I'd be very surprised if it's still around in 50 years.
 


The government runs the biggest rebill scam in history. Taxes. In the end this bill will just waste more tax money and not benefit the right people.

Government is saying its OK to not work hard, well support you by passing bills like this, and to pay for it those who did work hard will pay for it. Great message to send to the country. At a certain age, the government needs to stop supporting people.
 
It cracks me up how people on both sides think that their party actually gives a damn about them. I had to learn this as I got older and it's very clear now. The whole reason to even begin this fiasco was to lower the cost of health care. Funny thing is, Obama sold us out plain and simple and you don't hear the republicans talking about it because this new health care reform is only designed to do one thing - make the insurance companies more money and get the greedy fuckers reelected.

We needed to do something about our fucked up health care system but this wasn't it. Republicans and Democrats...I'm done with them. The only thing that I think can happen now is that people will either stay home next election or a significant number of people (but not enought to matter) will vote 3rd party. The Repubs will get back, fuckthings up even more, and maybe then people will wake the fuck up and demand real change.

We will see...
 
...Show me another government program which has saved the tax payers money. Show me. Hell, show me a government program that has even stayed on budget and I'll be impressed....

Sure. Naval military shipbuilding. After WWII, private contractors used heavy political influence to shut government-run naval shipyards. You know, the same shipyards that managed to rebuild the Pacific fleet in a stupid amount of short time and kick Japan's ass in no time flat. I think one of the greatest engineering feats of WWII was to get the USS Enterprise ready for battle in less than a week when initial estimates of repair time were as high as six months.

Anyways, after the war, the shipyards got whacked and bids went out to public contractors. Who have been screwing the US Navy for about 30 years at least, always over-budget and behind schedule. Strategypage is all over the bullshit here.

Okay, sorry for the history lesson, just wanted to throw a few factoids in the 'ole thread. Carry on with the mutual hate and misunderstanding.
 
Sure. Naval military shipbuilding. After WWII, private contractors used heavy political influence to shut government-run naval shipyards. You know, the same shipyards that managed to rebuild the Pacific fleet in a stupid amount of short time and kick Japan's ass in no time flat. I think one of the greatest engineering feats of WWII was to get the USS Enterprise ready for battle in less than a week when initial estimates of repair time were as high as six months.

Anyways, after the war, the shipyards got whacked and bids went out to public contractors. Who have been screwing the US Navy for about 30 years at least, always over-budget and behind schedule. Strategypage is all over the bullshit here.

Okay, sorry for the history lesson, just wanted to throw a few factoids in the 'ole thread. Carry on with the mutual hate and misunderstanding.

I agree, private contractors are terrible. Why? Because they can charge any amount of money they want and they aren't ever held to accountability. Why aren't their feet held to the fire? Because government doesn't give two fucking shits about profits or deadlines. Anytime a person or company gets a government contract its already assumed they will be charging a fuck ton more than they normally would because the government will pay it because they're using other peoples money so cost means nothing.

Also, let's not compare the government we had in WW2 to the cluster fuck of thieves and scammers we have had the past 10 or 20 years.
 
Well Benji that program was 60 years ago and was during wartime. Wartime is strange. Sometimes it takes a while for profiteers to get involved.

And in that case it was probably because people were so motivated to get things done that they volunteered to work longer than normal hours and got pulled off of other jobs to do the work.

Everyone knew then we lost a lot of ships in Pearl Harbor and were probably going to lose most real Naval battles.

Plus it was just a week. People will do extraordinary things for a while.

But day in and day out they wont for decades.

Also the job mentality of a steelworker and a doctor are quite a bit different.

It turns out the doctors are already thinking about this and many have decided they will quit:

Investors.com - 45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

Have fun with government run health care with the doctors who are left are paperwork losers who get stuck with even more patients than now.
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TmyPsF73dY]YouTube - Michael Savage - We're On Precipice Of The Abyss (3-19-10)[/ame]
 
It cracks me up how people on both sides think that their party actually gives a damn about them. I had to learn this as I got older and it's very clear now. The whole reason to even begin this fiasco was to lower the cost of health care. Funny thing is, Obama sold us out plain and simple and you don't hear the republicans talking about it because this new health care reform is only designed to do one thing - make the insurance companies more money and get the greedy fuckers reelected.

We needed to do something about our fucked up health care system but this wasn't it. Republicans and Democrats...I'm done with them. The only thing that I think can happen now is that people will either stay home next election or a significant number of people (but not enought to matter) will vote 3rd party. The Repubs will get back, fuckthings up even more, and maybe then people will wake the fuck up and demand real change.

We will see...

lol - Huffington is pissed that he made a deal to not include a public option, but the dumb bitch thinks that things like the louisiana purchase, and the shit he pulled in Nebraska just to get their votes is fine haha

When you think about it though - It's kind of weird, because the only way they got kucinichs' vote was to promise to pursue a public option after this initial bill was passed.

I guess that one thing is for sure, there are still a couple people left to get fucked in this whole deal. I can't wait to see the look on some of these morons face as they get slaughtered in the next election.
 
You don't get it.

The most productive people in this country who already pay 50%+ of their income to the Government will be penalized even more with an even greater tax burden.

Hang on, you're paying 50% top-rate tax and NOT getting public health care or social security?

The only question you Americans should be asking is where the hell all of your money is actually going.
 
What the fuck does this thread have to do with "bigots"? Oh, you're not one of those faggots who say anyone who disagrees with Obama or democrats is a racist, are you?

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I worked for the gubbmint fighting fires for 9 years. I've personally seen 1/4 million dollars per day worth of leased birds sitting on an airfield for 3 weeks straight, only turning rotors to keep them from getting messed up from humidity (and to run the hobbs meters, thus costing the taxpayers more). I've seen 25k worth of rappel gear, pump and chainsaws burned up because no one was willing to come get it. I've personally figured out how to spend the remaining 125k in our budget, simply so our budget wouldn't get reduced the following year.

Fuck this shit, there's no way it ends well. Another nail in the coffin containing the Republic our forefathers envisioned.
 
Obama is a modern day Jim Jones, leading his fellow democrats to commit suicide.
Democrats will get slaughtered this fall in the elections.

I know that isn't much consolation as the damage will be done, but seriously i've never seen so many politicians walk off a cliff.
 
I know that sounds heartless, but there are things that could have been done to insure those 30 million without destroying the best health care system in the world.

HAHAHA LOL. Let me guess, you have never left the US for a period longer then 5 days, speak no second language and have not the slightest clue how other countries health care system works.

US health care is so fucked up, I still pay for my Swiss insurance although my School requires me to carry US insurance as well. And I have lived in the US for over 3 years now.

Do you truly believe a system in which the insurance company decides if you need that Meniscus surgery on the knee that has been hurting for 3 Months, the doctor said it was necessary also 3 Months ago but the insurance was "processing" your claim for this long? Happened exactly like that to a close friend of mine. Talk about conflict of interest.

Here's how the system works in Switzerland. Health Insurance is more like car insurance. You are required to have it. You can freely choose if you want to just be insured at the bare minimum (this means no private room, and a deductible over 5k but EVERYTHING is covered and not just what pleases the insurance) which costs about $80 a month for a healthy 25 year old OR if you want to get the best coverage out there that gives you fancy private rooms in hospitals etc. for a lot more.

The Insurance NEVER decided if you need a treatment. The doctor does, as it should be. The Doc says you need to get that done asap. You get it done. The insurance pays (unless obviously you get a boob job or something alike).

There are no waiting lists for doctors, old people don't get killed like Hannity preaches, and everyone is covered at least to a point that getting sick will not ruin you.

And to all those of you that believe that under the current system the rich aren't paying for the poor: My friend lost his Job a few months ago, and then got hit by a car (not his fault). His hospital bill was over 15k and since he had no job he had no health insurance (by the way, it's retarded to tie health insurance to a job). When he got the bill he called up the hospital and told them exactly that. They said: Okay, you'll just have to pay 5k. He said look, I can't pay at all. The hospital then simply dropped the bill because it would have accrued more cost to actually try to get money from him then they would have gotten.

Now who do you think pays for his bill? The hospital simply passes along the cost to those with insurance. Ever looked at at hospital bill? They are INCREDIBLY inflated so that the hospital can make up for their losses.

So the real reason why people can't afford insurance at the moment is that the price is inflated because of people that don't have insurance. See the irony in that?

I am very opposed to systems like the one in Canada and the UK. State run health care is a bad idea. The dead loss from not having competition is much too great. Thanks to the US media though which instead of talking about the facts is pulling shit out of their ass to get viewer numbers up. Ever watched Hannity? Do you truly believe he got into his current position being as stupid as he pretends to be on his show?

The two option system is a good way to solve the conflict of interest and will bring at least some government control to the system but instead of regulation by competition. If you had taken the time you'd realize that the current system is in no way sustainable. It's not just about insuring the 30 Million uninsured, it's about fixing a system that got corrupted by law makers in order to make the biggest profit possible for insurance companies.
 
Congratulations us... our elected legislators just passed a sweeping reform the majority of the country did not want.

I can almost picture the mass exodus of Democrats out of DC this November. Win-win for the GOP.
 
When will American's lead an armed revolt against the politicians who no longer represent us? They arent representing us, so our votes no longer count. The only other option is some sort of revolution.

Right?
 
How is public health care any different than public education? If you believe there to be a difference please make sure to explain the right to education but not to health.
 
When will American's lead an armed revolt against the politicians who no longer represent us? They arent representing us, so our votes no longer count. The only other option is some sort of revolution.

Right?


So instead of actually responding to my arguments you babble some stupid revolution bullshit? No wonder the US political system is in trouble if people like you are the ones voting...
 
I know Spanish/Americans who go back and forth and NEVER pay on income earned outside the country. While it may be "true", it is not enforced worth a damn.

And last I checked, customs checks my name to terrorist lists, not an IRS list.

When the IRS catches up, your spanish/american bank account will be frozen.
 
This is the mentality that most people in opposition of a public option have. God forbid you ever come down with a serious illness and fall into poverty when your so called "best health-care" in the world system denies you coverage.

then you fucking die like your supposed to..

people are such pussies these days
 
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