MarketLeverage vs Skrilla

Should Market Leverage Be Banned?

  • Hell YA!

    Votes: 24 64.9%

  • No Way

    Votes: 13 35.1%
  • Total voters
    37
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robc said:
First off I work for ML and can shed some light on this.

After skrilla sent the unauthorized creative we wanted to give him a second chance, both with our network and to gain ground on the income that wasn't earned. The payment to skrilla was dependent on 2 things: 1) that he would send only approved creative, from, and subject lines and 2) that he maintain the same volume level with the correct creative as he did with the misleading creative. In terms of volume level he failed miserably which only makes sense. To add to this the agreement made with him was also before we received legal notice from H&D which again also spins things in a different direction after we had received that notice.
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Now your bending the facts. #1 was done. i sent approved creative to Michael. As mentioned before I was down for 2 days and started mailing on Thursday. the mailing went from thursday night all the way into friday.

THE DEAL WAS 1 WEEK FULL POP 100% ON LEADS, FULL POP ON 16K IM OWED WHICH BUMPED UP TO 20K, WIRE GOES OUT ON FRIDAY FOR THE 20K. THERE WAS NO AGREEMENT ON THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC.

I had an issue with my domain registart which means I wasn't getting roll over for 2 days. i restarted mailing thursday night as mentioned above. You lied about #2. There was no mention on the same volume. Again the deal was 100% first week, 93% 2nd week until I hit the 22k. The volume wasn't bad at all considering I had started mailing thursday night. the only thing that was added to my creative was all of advertiser info. That was a flat out lie. You still haven't provided a solid reason for backing out of agreement.
 


Well I like the idea of ML asking Jon to help arbitrate this issue between the advertiser, ML, and skrilla. I mean, there's a good amount of money on the table here, and I think each party handled this a little poorly.

The fundamental argument that skrilla seems to have made is that (a) yea I modified the first run and i'm not getting paid on that and (b) I was told I'd get paid for subsequent traffic quicker.

You fuct up on point .a. and you shouldn't get paid on it. There's a reason why lawyers write those lead requests. Violations of CANSPAM for instance can result in tens of thousands of dollars per occurance in fines. On point .b. it sounds like ML has every intention of paying you once the dust settles between them and the advert.

On top of everything though skrilla, you're being a shitty marketer. That email that you sent was fucking deceptive, and I'm not surprised that you received a complaint. You, as an affiliate, are essentially the outsourced marketing arm for your "client" - in this case Harry & David. Do you think if you were actually working for H&D you wouldn't have gotten fired already? You chose to push the envelope for a buck and it backfired. Sorry man, it's shitty marketing, and it's an example where an affiliate screws up and makes everyone else look like shit.

Sorry, I'm a big advocate of responsible marketing and ethics on BOTH sides of the fence (because I've worked in both publishing and affiliate management).
 
MikeKelly said:
Here is a good view of how we treat our publishers at ML:

1. We Paid Skrilla Net 1 in his first month on the network
2. I personally sent him a signed "Tony Romo" football with Skrilla's name engraved on the glass case to his house!
3. We agreed to pay weekly with certain volume requirements

Then, after hearing from the advertiser on the non compliance, we decided to give him a second chance and as long as he sent approved creative, from, and subject lines, we would continue moving forward with the same plan.

Skrilla mailed little to no volume, therefore breaking the agreement, so we are going to pay him Net 15 for his June traffic, which is our standard publisher payout terms - after we get paid from the advertisers.
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Thanks I like Tony Romo and appreciated the gift. Hes cool. That was before this disaster. I'll send it back if it was a lot of trouble. But was that my consolation prize for not recieveing 22k?
 
Bump. Well looks like ML finally banned me. FYI I checked stats this morning and it was just over 17k about 17.1k. I dunno why they wont just send wire to avoid all this neg publicity.
 
Well I'm really sorry for you skrilla,.

We all know that a lot of advertisers are fucked-up, but you Aff companies should hold them tigher, because advertiser never loses money where publishers may lose a lot especially if it's all ppc based..

$20k is a lot indeed, i suggest to ML to straight up things with advertiser

I just hope that eventually atleast few companies will stay unbanned here..
 
Don't believe all you read!

I have been working with ML since day one when they got started and I wish everyone conducted biz like they do. Upfront and honest and never hiding from problems like most in this industry. Payment has never been a problem for me and we have done over 7 figures with ML. They actually have paid me when I have gone over budget and when times the advertiser hasn't paid them. So don't believe everything you hear and read about, there are always two sides of a story. I would normally not even pay attention to these posts but when someone showed me what was written about these guys I decided that people should know the truth. Keep up the good work Sal and the ML team I look forward to future success with your company!
 
A couple of things I noticed; when ML feels maligned, they "come full guns blazing"! Because I can't believe all the one and two post newbies who entered the fray! Can't believe BLASTYOURASS hasn't commented yet! LOL

As someone who has been in business, there is no way in hell this will be settle on a FORUM. It's great that the leadership of ML has come here to defend themselves, and likewise fo Skrilla to bring it to WF. However, I remember a say, 'there are two sides to every story, your side and the TRUTH".

In regards to promising to pay Skrilla the money owed and than changing their mind. I think someone in that regards may be updating a resume or at least got a nice azz chewing. But, as I see it , ML DOES have a right to say, hey, let's slow things down to make sure that we don't get our asses handed to us after we make payment. I think that is wise business. If there is nothing else out there further, NET 15 shouldn't be a problem.

Engaged, I don't can't understand why you believe that ML should pay no matter what? If Skrilla broke the TOS, than paying him would set a precedent AND most likely void the TOS for other publishers. In case, if ML did pay Skrilla, I 'd make him sign an agreement, if he acknowledged one word of such that he was paid, he WILL be SUED.

I think that this whole thing has turned into a huge mess. As I see it, we won't EVER get the real story because having worked in mortgages,auto industry, technology equipment; there will ALWAYS be someone who believes that they were screwed out of something. Skrilla's creative was, let's just say, VERY AGGRESSIVE. Not getting an approval on the creative is where you dropped your drawers. Having that would have settled this entire issue.

Jon, I commend you for your efforts in trying to stick up for the Affiliates. As someone new to this, I like it that you care. But, I 'd say, don't let either side drag you into this mess, this is one of those things that has to be best settled between the two parties. i wishi all involved the best of luck and fuck the advertiser if they can't take a joke!
 
I do business with all the top CPA networks and now see why ML isn't in that group. I will never touch this network and will recommend others to do likewise.

If the other networks are reading this, the lesson learned here is to stand behind your word. After the mailout mess went down, skrilla was promised a deal for payout by his AM. If you or one of your AM promises something to an affiliate, then you must deliver. Simple as that.
 
poolemit said:
so assuming $22k worth of leads did all of the above, what exactly is the advertiser bitching about? is the quality of the surveys low or something? they definitely made money with the campaign and at least a partial payment is due to ML and skrilla imo. they're trying to get off easy on a technicality
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I suspect it has something to do with the advertisement he sent out being a lie and thus illegal. Companies tend to be concerned about those sorts of things, especially when they hold some responsibility and liability.

I am still catching up on this thread, but Skrilla, you went over the line modifying the ad like that and not looking for approval first. Most companies require approval before you can run modified creatives. If you do so without approval it is going to be at your own risk.

I think this is something important out there for a lot of people to understand. You can't just make stuff up and/or lie about your promotions. Restrictions and oversite will only continue to get tighter and tighter, and there will be real consequences. The way you protect yourself as an affiliate is to get the Company or the Network to approve what you are doing, and then you are in the clear.

If you choose to avoid getting approval because you know it might not get approved that is the risk you take. The result of that risk is potentially not getting paid.

I will continue to catch up on the rest of the thread now, as I am sure there is plenty more to read.
 
Ben said:
At least pay the man the 16k when you say you will, it is separate from the headline mess
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By the way I agree with this. If ML made an agreeement for payment it should have been honored. Not modified and withheld for further investigation. Nobody forced ML to tell him they would pay him the money right away. That was their choice.

That still doesn't excuse what Skrilla did, but it is what it is.
 
MrJack said:
Skrilla, you say you have been mailing for a while and you represent the mailing guide for Jons forum… Then why would you send non can-spam compliant emails?
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I would like to know that too from Jon. It doesn't make sense for the E-mail forum moderator to be someone who admits to sending out illegal and non-compliant e-mail spam.
 
aeiouy said:
By the way I agree with this. If ML made an agreeement for payment it should have been honored. Not modified and withheld for further investigation. Nobody forced ML to tell him they would pay him the money right away. That was their choice.

That still doesn't excuse what Skrilla did, but it is what it is.
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If I am understanding this whole thing correctly, ML isn't saying that they weren't gonna pay the 16k, they just said, hey, were gonna wait net 15 to do so.
 
gladi8tor said:
If I am understanding this whole thing correctly, ML isn't saying that they weren't gonna pay the 16k, they just said, hey, were gonna wait net 15 to do so.
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Yes..we will pay skrilla net 15. ML has not yet collected any of this money from advertisers yet because this all occurred in the first 11 days of June. We simply decided to no longer prepay him given the risk of his traffic. While I admit we did tell him we would pay the 16k on Fri that was before we heard from the legal department of Harry and David. Once that happened we realized we had to really look into the other traffic skrilla sent to make sure we were doing our due diligence. We can't pay on traffic generated through misleading or non compliant emails. We also don't want to invoice an advertiser knowing the risk that we might have sent them this kind of traffic.
 
MikeKelly said:
Yes..we will pay skrilla net 15. ML has not yet collected any of this money from advertisers yet because this all occurred in the first 11 days of June. We simply decided to no longer prepay him given the risk of his traffic. While I admit we did tell him we would pay the 16k on Fri that was before we heard from the legal department of Harry and David. Once that happened we realized we had to really look into the other traffic skrilla sent to make sure we were doing our due diligence. We can't pay on traffic generated through misleading or non compliant emails. We also don't want to invoice an advertiser knowing the risk that we might have sent them this kind of traffic.
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What?! Are you searious? Now more lies after all thats happened. YOU said in your own words that you didn't feel like paying on friday because the traffic wasn't to your liking. Re-read your posts Michael. Now your saying it's because of a complaint to the legal department of Harry and David.
 
How about we just wait the 15 days, sound good? OK, issue solved with ML now WF can move on to the next attack on an AM company...
 
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